What type of religious do not take a poverty vow besides a priest?

[trad_1]

What type of religious do not take a poverty vow besides a priest?

 

[catholictiger]

What type of religious do not take a poverty vow besides a priest?

a priest isn’t just a diocesan priest. There are many priests of religious orders who take a vow of poverty.

 

[trad_1]

True I was thinking of the diocesan priest they do not take a poverty vow. Can you think of any other religious that do not take the poverty vow?

 

[catholictiger]

now that I think about it the only order that comes to mind is benedictines. They take different vows than your typical vows.

They take three vows
Obedience
Stability
conversion

so while they don’t take a vow of obedience the vow of conversion which can also be known as conversion of manners includes poverty and chastity. What many religious orders do is remove stability and conversion and replace it with poverty and chastity. So many religious orders grew out of the rule of Benedict but their rules changed to obedience and conversion but splitting conversion into two.

So Benedictines don’t take a vow of obedience but it is included in one of the vows.

I don’t know if any religious order don’t take some type of vow which includes poverty.

 

[TimothyH]

Benedictines do not take a vow of poverty. Cistercians (Trappists) are included in the Benedictine family.

Order of St. Benedict (OSB)
Order of Cistercians of the Strict Observance (OCSO)
Order of Cistercians of the Common Observance (O.Cist.)

These vow obedience to the Abbot, ongoing conversion and stability of life. The do not vow poverty.

The monks will not own property individually but will hold all things in common. The monks in LaTrobe Pennsylvania were the largest land owners in the state at one time. The monks in Conyers Georgia own 2200 acres in suburban Atlanta with three factories and a guest house on the grounds.

-Tim-

 

[Chatter163]

True I was thinking of the diocesan priest they do not take a poverty vow. Can you think of any other religious that do not take the poverty vow?

Diocesan priests are not religious, i.e., they are not members of religious communities. Therefore the question cannot properly ask about “any other religious”; it is comparing apples and oranges.

 

[trad_1]

Diocesan priests are not religious, i.e., they are not members of religious communities. Therefore the question cannot properly ask about “any other religious”; it is comparing apples and oranges.

I meant it in a very general way.

 

[trad_1]

Could a person own property individually and work for the church ie not as a lay person. For example a diocesan priest would be allowed to own a car. Would any other church worker be allowed to do that?

 

[TimothyH]

Could a person own property individually and work for the church ie not as a lay person. For example a diocesan priest would be allowed to own a car. Would any other church worker be allowed to do that?

Your question doesn’t makes sense because in a diocesan setting you are either clergy or lay. If you are not lay then you are clergy. The laity are anyone who are not deacons, priests or bishops.

A deacon is not lay. Deacons are clergy. Deacons can own property. Priests and bishops too, but they are the only people who are not lay. Everyone else is lay.

-Tim-

 

[trad_1]

Thanks Tim. You helped me understand that better. So going back to the car example Deacons, Priests and Bishops can all own cars. Are their any religious that would be allowed to own a car?

 

[TimothyH]

Thanks Tim. You helped me understand that better. So going back to the car example Deacons, Priests and Bishops can all own cars. Are their any religious that would be allowed to own a car?

The terminology is confusing. I don’t fully understand it. BrotherJR usually explained this stuff and would have likely jumped in here but he is ill and under obedience to rest and stay off the internet. You could search for posts by user JREducation - that is his screen name.

I think what you are really asking is about secular vs religious. Secular men can own property. Religious must live according to the rule of their order and according to the constitutions of their community.

It is certain that the mendicant orders such as the Conventual Franciscans and Dominicans will not own property. A mendicant is literally a beggar. Mendicants orders do not own property and rely completely on the providence of God to supply what they need. These are the guys and gals who vow poverty.

I believe that the Secular Franciscans - OSF - are fully Franciscan but they are secular people working and living in the secular world including owning private property. I do not think they are consecrated religious though. Maybe Luigie or some of the other Secular Franciscans will chime in here.

The contemplative monastics such as Benedictines, Cistercians and Carmelites will be cloistered. They are monks. They wouldn’t leave the cloister if they were the last people on earth. They would stay there and pray. In reality they sometimes leave to go to the doctor or pick up a load of supplies. They own property in common - it all belongs to the community. Benedictines are commanded by the Rule of St. Benedict to never claim anything as their own property. The monastery near me has a few vehicles, a van and a truck for sure, but they are community property.

Jesuits? I don’t know but I don’t think most traditionalists are interested in the Jesuits.

The thing about religious orders is that you don’t join them to be a priest. You join them to be a Franciscan/Carmelite/Dominican/Benedictine/etc. You choose them because that is what God has created you for and called you to do - your vocation. Then you choose the community which fits you. Different communities have different personalities even within any given order. The order will choose priests from among the members to serve the sacramental needs of the members. The Dominicans and Jesuits however, are clerical orders. Only men can be Jesuits and every Jesuit is a priest. Every male Dominican is a priest. But you join the Jesuits to be a Jesuit and the Dominican to be Dominican, not because you want to be a priest.

There are other orders out there, communities, Societies of Apostolic Life… it gets confusing fast.

My recommendation is to not sit idle if you are over 40. Start actively communicating with your diocesan vocations director now even if you don’t want to be a diocesan priest. Make the call when you wake up tomorrow morning. Talk to them. Get engaged. They are there to help. Just be honest with them. Call and make a meeting. You already know the reality of age limits and “God will make it happen if it is really your call” is nice in theory but God wants us to act. Start talking to vocations directors now.

I recommend reading “To Save a Thousand Souls” by Brett Brannen and “On Being a Priest” by Federico Suárez if you have not.

I confess to having many similar thoughts when I was 44 years old (50 now) and spent three years actively discerning where I was called. Endless hours in the adoration chapel. I met monks and spent an afternoon with Franciscan priests and did hospital ministry and went to inquiry meetings for the diaconate… The whole process was wonderful. I hope God leads you to where he wants you.

-Tim-

 

[janeway529]

Jesuits? I don’t know but I don’t think most traditionalists are interested in the Jesuits.

The thing about religious orders is that you don’t join them to be a priest. You join them to be a Franciscan/Carmelite/Dominican/Benedictine/etc. You choose them because that is what God has created you for and called you to do - your vocation. Then you choose the community which fits you. Different communities have different personalities even within any given order. The order will choose priests from among the members to serve the sacramental needs of the members. The Dominicans and Jesuits however, are clerical orders. Only men can be Jesuits and every Jesuit is a priest. But you join the Jesuits to be a Jesuit and the Dominican to be Dominican, not because you want to be a priest.

-Tim-

Just to clarify, Jesuits are brothers and priests. Jesuits also own all property in common. They take a vows of poverty, chastity, and obedience. A 4th vow is also taken by professed Jesuits along with their vows of poverty, chastity and obedience. The text of the vow reads: “I further promise a special obedience to the Sovereign Pontiff in regard to the missions according to the same apostolic letters and Constitutions.” As one Jesuit priest’s mother once said, “If this is poverty, I want to see chastity.”

Jesuits also take an additional 5 Simple Vows.

From Fr. James Martin, SJ:

After “solemn” vows, the “fully professed” take five “simple” vows, privately–after Mass, in a side chapel or a sacristy. These vows show how well St. Ignatius understood human nature. First, we vow never to change anything in the Jesuit Constitutions about poverty–unless to make it “more strict.” Second, a vow never to “strive or ambition” for any dignity in the church, like becoming a bishop. Third, never to “strive or ambition” for any high office in the Jesuits. Fourth, if we find out that someone is striving for these things, we are to “communicate his name” to the Society. (A friend calls this the vow to rat out someone, but it’s another indication of how much Ignatius wanted to eliminate ambition, as far as possible, from the Jesuits.) Finally, we take a vow that, if we are somehow made bishop, we will still listen to the superior general.

americamagazine.org/content/all-things/final-vows-whats

 

[Yeoman]

True I was thinking of the diocesan priest they do not take a poverty vow. Can you think of any other religious that do not take the poverty vow?

I’d actually wondered about that and didn’t know the answer. So I take it Diocesan priests are not required to take a vow of poverty. Thanks for clearing that up.

 

[trad_1]

So if I understand all this right only a diocesan Priest and a Bishop can own a car.

 

[SuscipeMeDomine]

So if I understand all this right only a diocesan Priest and a Bishop can own a car.

Religious would have access to a car (or a ride someplace) if they needed it, but they don’t own the vehicles. They also don’t own their computers, phones, or other everyday objects.

 

[TimothyH]

So if I understand all this right only a diocesan Priest and a Bishop can own a car.

Yes, they are secular men just like you and I.

Priests draw a salary from the parish and bishops draw a salary from the diocese. They have to provide for their own retirement and so have retirement plans just like you and I. They own whatever property they wish, take vacations, go shopping at the Mall, go to restaurants and live secular lives just like you and I. It probably wouldn’t be prudent for a priest to show up at Mass driving a yellow Ferrari but many men have entered the priesthood late in life and have substantial savings and assets.

I have heard that most diocesan priests get a pretty good deal. They get a salary, get to live in the rectory, someone usually cooks and cleans for them and I have been told that the retirement plan is pretty good. Maybe Fr. David will tell me that I don’t know what I am talking about, that the pay is crummy, the roof leaks in the rectory and the toilets don’t flush.

But yes, diocesan priests are secular men. They can drive whatever car they want. We used to have a pastor who rode a Harley and a vicar who drove a convertible Mustang.

-Tim-

 

[trad_1]

Thanks Tim one of the best answers I have read on this forum. Honest and to the point. I know a lot of priest drive what I call average joe cars ie camry, fusion or a rav4.

 

[Chatter163]

I suggest that you research the differences between institutes of consecrated life, societies of apostolic life, and the secular (diocesan) priesthood. These are each quite different, though with some overlap. While the average layman in the pew often identifies each by the way in which Mass is celebrated, there is so much more to each of these states of life than that. The differences are extremely important, and crucial to any discernment process.

 

[janeway529]

So if I understand all this right only a diocesan Priest and a Bishop can own a car.

It depends on the diocese. Some dioceses provide cars for their clergy, so buying one isn’t necessarily a necessity. Other dioceses don’t provide cars for their clergy.

 

[trad_1]

It depends on the diocese. Some dioceses provide cars for their clergy, so buying one isn’t necessarily a necessity. Other dioceses don’t provide cars for their clergy.

You learn something everyday. I never heard of that.