What use is there in praying?

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Thorns

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If prayer isn’t meant to change God’s will or ask for His intervention, but rather only to change ourselves so that we can better align our will to God’s, then why do people pray for safety, peace in the world, diseases to go away, or for protection of any kind? Apparently God is not a vending machine and we’re just supposed to suck it up. The outcomes of what take place on earth will not change either way whether our will is aligned or not, so why even pray?
 
Our Father, Who art in heaven
Hallowed be Thy Name;
Thy kingdom come,
Thy will be done,
on earth as it is in heaven.
Give us this day our daily bread,
and forgive us our trespasses,
as we forgive those who trespass against us;
and lead us not into temptation,
but deliver us from evil. Amen.
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I think that sums it up very well:
Acknowledging God as our Creator, we converse with Him, affirming our conviction to do His will, laying before Him, our needs, and asking Him for his help and forgiveness in our efforts to be ever closer to Him.
 
Thorns said:
If prayer isn’t meant to change God’s will or ask for His intervention, but rather only to change ourselves so that we can better align our will to God’s, then why do people pray for safety, peace in the world, diseases to go away, or for protection of any kind? Apparently God is not a vending machine and we’re just supposed to suck it up. The outcomes of what take place on earth will not change either way whether our will is aligned or not, so why even pray?
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Suggested reading: Part 4 of the Catechism:

*PART FOUR - CHRISTIAN PRAYER

SECTION ONE: PRAYER IN THE CHRISTIAN LIFE
Code: 
         WHAT IS PRAYER?
CHAPTER ONE: THE REVELATION OF PRAYER
Code: 
        *** THE UNIVERSAL CALL TO PRAYER***

ARTICLE 1: IN THE OLD TESTAMENT

         IN BRIEF

ARTICLE 2: IN THE FULLNESS OF TIME

         IN BRIEF

ARTICLE 3: IN THE AGE OF THE CHURCH

      I. ***Blessing and Adoration***
     II. Prayer of Petition
    III. Prayer of Intercession
     IV. ***Prayer of Thanksgiving***
      V. ***Prayer of Praise***
         IN BRIEF
CHAPTER TWO: THE TRADITION OF PRAYER
Code: 
ARTICLE 1: AT THE WELLSPRINGS OF PRAYER

         IN BRIEF

ARTICLE 2: THE WAY OF PRAYER

         IN BRIEF

ARTICLE 3: GUIDES FOR PRAYER
CHAPTER THREE: THE LIFE OF PRAYER
Code: 
ARTICLE 1: EXPRESSIONS OF PRAYER

      I. Vocal Prayer
     II. Meditation
    III. Contemplative Prayer
         IN BRIEF

ARTICLE 2: THE BATTLE OF PRAYER

      I. Objections to Prayer
     II. Humble Vigilance of Heart
    III. ***Filial Trust
     IV. Persevering in Love***

ARTICLE 3: THE PRAYER OF THE HOUR OF JESUS

         IN BRIEF
SECTION TWO: THE LORD’S PRAYER: "OUR FATHER!"
Code: 
ARTICLE 1: "THE SUMMARY OF THE WHOLE GOSPEL"

      I. At the Center of the Scriptures
     II. "The Lord's Prayer"
    III. The Prayer of the Church
         IN BRIEF

ARTICLE 2: "OUR FATHER WHO ART IN HEAVEN"

      I. "We Dare to Say"
     II. "Father!"
    III. "Our" Father
     IV. "Who Art in Heaven"
         IN BRIEF

ARTICLE 3: "THE SEVEN PETITIONS"

      I. "**Hallowed Be Thy Name**"
     II. "**Thy Kingdom Come**"
    III. "**Thy Will Be Done on Earth as It Is in Heaven**"
     IV. "Give Us This Day Our Daily Bread"
      V. "And **Forgive us Our Trespasses**, as We Forgive Those Who Trespass against Us"

     VI. "And Lead Us Not into Temptation"
    VII. "But ***Deliver Us From Evil***"

ARTICLE 4: THE FINAL DOXOLOGY
*_______________________________________________________________________

Your vending machine theory of prayer addresses one small portion of prayer—‘petition’.

Here’s my humble synopsis of the purpose of prayer:

Ask not what God can do for you, but what you can do for God.

Prayer is first for glorifying and praising our Creator;

Second, for communicating with our Creator;

Third, for thanking our Creator–for the gift of life itself, for the gift of His Son, for the redemptive work of His Son, allowing us to participate in His love…

Fourth, for offering ourselves to His service, as instruments of His Holy Will;

Fifth, petitioning for the privilege of being used in the service of His Holy Will;

…then we get to the part about asking for (petitioning) for the stuff we think we need, or perhaps even want, with the implicit caveat that whatever we ask for, be in accordance with His Holy Will.

JMHO.
 
btw, please note that that’s ‘Part Four’ of four–not just some obscure portion of the CCC.

It represents one of the 4 pillars of the Catholic Faith:

Part One= the Nicene Creed (the official declaration of the core dogmas of the Faith);

Part Two=the Celebration of the Christian Mystery (i.e. the Liturgy and the Sacraments);

Part Three=Life in Christ (i.e.–living ‘Charity’-(the word for Christ’s 2 fold commandment–not necessarily the stuff IRS lets you deduct from taxes); the beatitudes, the parables, and such);

Part Four=Christian Prayer.

The only thing I feel compelled to add to what I wrote above about ‘prayer’, is that prayer is the essence of the relationship. All the sacraments, and liturgy, and beatitudes, and declarations in the Creed, obtain their meaning from the relationship–with Christ, with the Holy Spirit, and with ‘Abba’, our Heavenly Father–and that relationship is nurtured by and through prayer.
 
RedFox0456 said:
I’ve had very real and immediate responses to prayer.
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Me too!

There are different kinds of prayer and I feel that the best kind is contemplative and just loving the Lord and being with Him. But there is also the prayer of petition and that is certainly valid and important. The Scriptures say we can ask for ANYTHING in the Name of Jesus and it will be done for us (Jn 14:14). But the Scriptures also say that our prayer requests must also be in line with God’s will (1 Jn 5:14). God’s will is always what is best for us and others. He sees the big picture. Sometimes we pray in the Name of Jesus and our prayer is not answered in the way that we want, because that is not what is best for everyone involved.

At my Bible study/prayer group, we’ve seen healing from all sorts of diseases that are incurable and many answers to prayer. Yet, when my mother was dying of an unknown neuromuscular disease (similar to ALS) I begged God to heal her and He did not. She died after a horrible, hellish decline over the course of three years. I was certainly sad, and I won’t say that I wasn’t disappointed that God did not answer my prayer. However, God is not my magic genie, nor anyone else’s. So, the OP does have a point that God isn’t a vending machine. In our trials, we have to bear our cross, we have to yoke with Jesus, we have to try our best to see how God might be using our trial to bring us closer to Him. Additionally, our Catholic faith is beautiful in that we actually are able to see meaning in suffering; it can be redemptive. In the case of my mother, I believe her terrible suffering brought her to the Lord (she had never been much of a believer). I can’t argue with God on what was best for my mom even though I desperately wanted her to live. I am at peace with her death though, because I trust that His will for her was far superior to my will.
 
Thorns said:
If prayer isn’t meant to change God’s will or ask for His intervention, but rather only to change ourselves so that we can better align our will to God’s, then why do people pray for safety, peace in the world, diseases to go away, or for protection of any kind? Apparently God is not a vending machine and we’re just supposed to suck it up. The outcomes of what take place on earth will not change either way whether our will is aligned or not, so why even pray?
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It is all part of God’s plan that we pray for all that we need with humility, faith, confidence and perseverance. If we don’t do our part and pray – and pray perseveringly, humbly, faithfully, and confidently – then some of the things we need we will not receive. That’s how God’s Will works – it takes into account our prayers and how persevering, trusting, faithful, and humble we are in our prayers. Jesus says: Ask and you shall receive, etc… – He does not say you don’t need to ask because God already knows what you need and will give it to you. No, He says: ASK and you SHALL receive. And He means that you should ask with all the proper dispositions, the ones that I have mentioned. God bless you.
 
TimothyH said:
I pray primarily to speak with the one I love.

-Tim-
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I think this is excellent. There are different kind of prayers: prayers of love and adoration, contrition, thanksgiving, and supplication and intercession. Some say that prayers of adoration are the best, others say that prayers of thanksgiving are the best. I say that they are all necessary and best when said lovingly and humbly with faith, to our dearly beloved Lord. God bless you.
 
Thorns said:
Originally Posted by RedFox0456
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Before anyone explains, you would do well to state your intentions in asking the question.
If you are cynical in any way, you will not hear the answer. It saves everyone a lot of trouble.
Might I suggest that any questions you do have of this personal nature, you work out between yourself and God.
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I have a real problem with supplication in prayer. I prayed and prayed and my child still died. I prayed and prayed and I still got cancer. I prayed and begged and prayed and my husband still left me. See what I mean? Just because you pray for something doesn’t mean it will happen.

So, for prayer: A = Adoration
C = Contrition
T= Thanksgiving
S= supplication.

I just gave up asking but do Adore, Thank, and tell our Lord how contrite I am.

If someone does get direct answer to prayers of supplication, I would consider that to be some kind of miracle.
 
fencersmother said:
I have a real problem with supplication in prayer. I prayed and prayed and my child still died. I prayed and prayed and I still got cancer. I prayed and begged and prayed and my husband still left me. See what I mean? Just because you pray for something doesn’t mean it will happen.

So, for prayer: A = Adoration
C = Contrition
T= Thanksgiving
S= supplication.

I just gave up asking but do Adore, Thank, and tell our Lord how contrite I am.

If someone does get direct answer to prayers of supplication, I would consider that to be some kind of miracle.
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No, if a person gets what they ask for in prayer it is only because their prayer was in accordance with God’s holy Will. If they were praying with the right dispositions and in accordance with God’s holy Will, He would certainly give them what they asked for. And God would only will to give us something if it were truly the best thing for our souls. When God does not answer our prayers it is either because we are no praying with the right dispositions (humility, confidence, faith, perseverance) or because what we are asking for is not the best thing for our soul. Please don’t ever think that it requires a miracle for God to answer a prayer. All that is required is that we have the right dispositions and that we are asking for what will be the best for our souls and for what is to God’s greater glory and honor. If you only knew how children have a much better chance of getting into heaven than adults, and that sickness like cancer can bring us many graces and opportunities to gain merit and to atone for our sins, etc., then you would see that your prayers were answered by God is the best way for you and your child’s soul. I know that God did not answer your prayer about your husband, but God in His infinite wisdom and omniscience must have a very good reason for not intervening. God bless you.
 
god always answers your prayers, sometimes he just says no. god loves you, but sometimes what appears to us as the best course of action might not be the best in gods point of view.

Thorns here is an example, one time i was having difficulty getting along with a girl at my school, so i went to church and i prayed in the little chapel of Mary that something nice would happen to her. after that our interactions became much easier, and we started to get along.

On the other hand, when i was like 6 or 7 I prayed that star wars was real and i had a spaceship. for some reason god didn’t see fit to grant that one. god certainly works n mysterious ways.
 
Thorns said:
Explain.
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Which time? Haha

Honestly, though, I have had immediate answers to a variety of prayers. Some because I felt as though something was wrong. At least one in frustration with faith and finally telling God I just couldn’t understand what he wanted. I have had my heart moved to the point of tears. I have had my body go from freezing and exhausted to warm and energetic. I have even had a few experiences external to myself, which certainly freaked out myself and the others present.

Probably the funniest encounter was when I was driving someone back home from a meeting at my parish and we were talking faith. My phone stopped playing music so I went to restart it. While it was off some strange audio track started playing and a voice said, “I’d like to start with the prayer of St. Thomas Aquinas.” The girl looked at me and asked, “Oh, so we’re listening to prayer now?” I then showed her my phone, which was just showing the first boot up screen. As she had not had any such encounters, she was unsettled and we turned the radio down! I still tease her about that.

I would hardly say God answers all of my prayers in such colorful fashion, but He has certainly let me know in dramatic fashion that He is there.
 
As a note, here is the prayer of St. Thomas Aquinas, which I shared with my companion who was explaining how she had been having difficulty in connecting with God. After sending her the prayer, she calmed down considerably, but still finds the whole thing unnerving!

Grant me, O Lord my God,
a mind to know you,
a heart to seek you,
wisdom to find you,
conduct pleasing to you,
faithful perseverance in waiting for you,
and a hope of finally embracing you.

Amen.
 
RedFox0456 said:
As a note, here is the prayer of St. Thomas Aquinas, which I shared with my companion who was explaining how she had been having difficulty in connecting with God. After sending her the prayer, she calmed down considerably, but still finds the whole thing unnerving!

Grant me, O Lord my God,
a mind to know you,
a heart to seek you,
wisdom to find you,
conduct pleasing to you,
faithful perseverance in waiting for you,
and a hope of finally embracing you.

Amen.
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This prayer is beautiful.
 
Thorns said:
If prayer isn’t meant to change God’s will or ask for His intervention, but rather only to change ourselves so that we can better align our will to God’s, then why do people pray for safety, peace in the world, diseases to go away, or for protection of any kind? Apparently God is not a vending machine and we’re just supposed to suck it up. The outcomes of what take place on earth will not change either way whether our will is aligned or not, so why even pray?
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This is something I struggled with, and still do honestly. I’ve had a lot of my prayers seemingly rejected. A lot. Good prayers too, not selfish ones. It got to the point where I almost gave up praying entirely.

There are a few things I’ve come to realize that have helped me though. I still struggle. But now it’s mostly emotional, instead of intellectual.

First, prayer is ultimately about relationship. So even if our petitionary prayers were pointless, it still wouldn’t make prayer in general useless, because that’s how we grow in our relationship with God. Prayer gives us the strength to go on. At least for me it does.

But even though it’s true that prayer can’t “change” God’s mind, that doesn’t make prayers of petition useless. Jesus commanded us to pray for our needs, so obviously there is some good to it. I don’t believe he would tell us to do something if it had no purpose.

Blaise Pascal explained it this way: “God instituted prayer to communicate to his creatures the dignity of causality.” (Pensees) Basically what it means is God, for whatever reason, wants us to be participators with him. He lets us really cause events and really make a difference, both by physical works and spiritual. From all eternity He decided that certain events or actions would only happen in response to something we do, including prayers we prayed. It’s still Him that does it, but he lets us cooperate. We’re not passive participants, we have a real purpose in life.

Think about it, God has designed things so that food is grown in response to something we do. We plant seeds and we harvest. Would we say that because God already knows we’re going to farm, we shouldn’t do it? No. If we don’t farm, then no food will grow. God knowing already that we are going to do that changes nothing.

It’s the same with prayer. God has designed it so that certain things will happen in response to our prayers. This doesn’t involve change on His part, since he planned that response from all eternity. But if we don’t pray that prayer, just like if we don’t plant those seeds on the farm, then nothing will happen.

That’s basically my thought process when it comes to prayers of petition now. It’s better to ask and take the risk of being told no than not ask. Because if I do ask, there’s a chance my prayer could be effective. But if I don’t ask at all, it definitely won’t be answered.

So yes, prayer IS effective because by it, we’re cooperating with God. He uses our prayers as his instruments of grace. Sometimes in ways we don’t even know or expect. Sometimes in ways that look like he didn’t answer, but in reality he did. Sometimes in ways we’ll only understand in the next life.
 
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