Indeed.
There is no such thing as ontological substance. Or maybe it is actually chicken soup. Chicken soup is the great equalizer for humanity.
I assume she meant of the same substance or ontologically the same. Maybe she will clear it up for us.
Matthew 16:19 clearly says the keys were giving to Peter. When non-Catholics try to twist Mathew 16:18, in the light of history, I just have to say, “so what, your church wasn’t there.”
Yes, James Talmage tried to make the “Great Apostasy” seem like an empirical truth. But now it seems when Mormons are pushed against the wall, they punt to claiming it is a theological truth. Theology made up by Stone, Campbell, and Smith
Do you suppose that’s why it is so difficult to pink down just WHAT WHERE and WHEN the so-called “Great Apostasy” occurred? If it is just accepted as “truth” and there’s no curiosity about the details. then it’s no wonder that when Mormons are asked for the details we get an assortment of answers but no clear unified response, much less any evidence.
I think (and I think you do, too) the reason they can not answer those questions is because it never happened. That is why they are left with a theological truth.
Well I agree that it never happened, but obviously millions of people believe it did, although how deeply they have studied and pondered the issue no doubt varies widely ~ just as in other faiths, including ours, I’m sure there are some Mormons who have studied the faith very deeply and others who are less inclined in that direction.
If I were to post a verse that I claimed said something or proved some point, I’d be able to explain how and why that verse said what I claim it does.
It’s an intellectual exercise. When someone makes a claim, we subject it to tests of fact and reason.
So you can’t explain HOW or WHY the verse say what you claim they say and then you claim that I am in denial.
I dunno - it’s your claim. Please demonstrate how that verse proves singular ontological substance. While you are at it, could you explain of what substance God is formed?
And that’s a perfectly acceptable answer… somebody told you so and you have faith that it is true.The answer is simple
Because it is the teaching of the church.
Well…it would be one thing if I blindly accepted it because somebody told me so.
I get the feeling that Mormons believe it is an empirical truth. They must not give it much thought because after discussing it with them, they back away for empirical, and claim it as a theological truth. I have only known one person to convert to Mormonism and he didn’t do it for theological reasons. I think it was love bombing and business contacts. In a letter, I asked him what theologically or philosophically drew him to Mormonism. No response.
No you are not getting it - Snow is right- the Greeks speak of ontological substance. It is the stuff that stuff is made out of-- the notion is that it is like modeling clay. Everything is made of modeling clay, but in different shapes and “appearances”. So according to this theory, The Father son and holy ghost are all made of the same “clay” or substance or being or whatever vague imaginary word you want to use. So then you can imagine that three things are really one thing because they are all made of the same stuff. Obviously this stuff does not exist.
Well of course I could then just answer “yes it was” and then where would we be?
What you are forgetting is that among all your “millions” are all the protestants in the world too. Mormons are not the only ones who believe in the apostasy. In fact, if we are voting, the vast majority of the world does not believe that Catholicism is true.
Come to our ward sometime and ask all the catholic converts to stand and you will see almost 40% are catholic converts including moi.
