What was the Church like pre 1962?

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fish90

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Was the Church in as much trouble as it is today?

How were vocations fostered?

Are there similarities between the Church today and the Church before 1962?

Any other comments?

Please notice I did not use the words Pre-Conciliar.😃
 
There were troubles, but of a different kind.

As one writer put it, there was a “contented torpor” among the faithful.

There was very little effort to really understand the faith. The average parishioner stopped all catechesis after Confirmation.

There could be other things I could mention.

But there was NEVER a time when the Church did not have troubles of some kind.
 
bpbasilphx said:
There were troubles, but of a different kind.

As one writer put it, there was a “contented torpor” among the faithful.

There was very little effort to really understand the faith. The average parishioner stopped all catechesis after Confirmation.

There could be other things I could mention.

But there was NEVER a time when the Church did not have troubles of some kind.
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Sad to say the average parishioner is about the same today as pre 1964
 
It was much different, very very different.

As to vocations, the call to the religious was viewed as an objectively higher calling and not just as another equal path as is so often, erroniously believed today. That is one of the reasons there were more vocations in those days, it was looked at in a different way and was encouraged…

As to one previous poster who alluded to the concept that prior to the 2nd vatican Council there was a general torpor in the pews, I say hogwash. Yes, there were many who learned only the basics of the faith and nothing more. I would also say that today there are equally as many who learn absolutely nothing about the faith and are quite happy. What passes for catechisis in many places these days is the repeated mantra that God loves you and forgives you. Thats about it.

Prior to the Second vatican Council, at a bare minimum people knew what their faith was and could tell you about it, unlike today.
 
fish90 said:
Was the Church in as much trouble as it is today?

How were vocations fostered?

Are there similarities between the Church today and the Church before 1962?

Any other comments?

Please notice I did not use the words Pre-Conciliar.😃
Click to expand...
It was pretty much quiet here in the U.S. The bishops kept a lid on anything that would cause scandal too. Vocations were fostered through seminaries.
 
Prior to 1962, the Church was lived in the community. People lived out their faith. It was made manifest in our daily lives. Priests and nuns were our teachers and role models. Becoming a priest or nun was encouraged and considered a good thing. The power of the Holy Spirit was accepted, and there was a healthy fear of God. Not as a tyrant but as a loving Father. No, it was not perfect. Yes, we had crime. We also had Religion Class where we were taught, appropriate for each age group, about our faith, the lives of the saints and our present world. Priests would visit the sick and bring them Communion.

Peace,
Ed
 
Obviously there was a lot going on that was kept quiet (otherwise there would not have been such a ‘leap’ to the “spirit of V-2” soon after) but I have to tell you, there was a lot more ‘community identity.’

Did SOME people stop learning the faith after their youth? Probably. Did everybody? Not by a long shot. After all, Catholic families were still even then more likely to be larger families so there was usually somebody still in school, and older sibs were likely to want to stay informed in order to argue!. There were lots of cultural festivals too especially in the bigger cities, and there were more ‘school oriented’ activities, and definitely more "Church-oriented’ activities.

Things were more homogenous then (a lot less ‘diversity’, far fewer ‘opportunities’), and that had its bad as well as good side, but since you don’t miss what you don’t know, we didn’t miss cable TV, the Wii, cell phones, etc.

Sunday was a real ‘break’ in the weekly routine. Malls were just coming in; few places had them. Stores weren’t open. People went out for drives after church or over to the relatives, or came home and read books (Gasp) or played games like Monopoly or sat around somebody who played piano or guitar, or in good weather went outside and played badminton, rode bikes, worked in the garden. . .
 
It was a different era not just for Catholic but all Christians…People didn’t try to re-invent the gospels to get away with as much as they could

They were obedient to the word of God…I think more people went to church, back then
 
What loaded questions! I could write a book, and I think a book should be written. A lot went on.

No. Not in the part of the country I’m from. If you asked ten priests the same question about the Faith, you’d get the same answer. Try that one today. Because the Church is made up of human beings with original sin, there has always been and will always be “trouble.” But the pre-Vatican II Church was a haven and peaceful. It was a secure refuge.

Vocations were fostered in my diocese in two ways. First, don’t forget that we had Sisters teaching us. My grammar school had three classes of about 60 children in each class for every grade. We had only three lay teachers in the school and 21 Sisters teaching, plus our principal and the convent cooking sister. They weren’t like the Sisters today, even those that wear full habits. They were different. I’ll always remember my second grade teacher who prepared me for my Fist Holy Communion who went onto leave the convent and get married in 1965. She instilled deep in my heart a desire to become a saint. They would always ask us, “Who wants to be a Sister when they grow up?” And we’d all raise our hands. We loved them. They were strict disciplinarians, but so were our parents. As a matter of fact, if any school was run today the same way they were back then, not many parents would stand for it. That’s how much everyone has changed.

The Sisters of Charity had about 65 girls average enter every year. Maryknoll had sometimes over 100 postulants enter. The Dominicans had about 30. If there was a “vocation shortage” it’s only because there were so many children in the school that they didn’t have enough teachers. By the way, my grammar school, which in it’s hay-day had almost 2000 students in 1965, is boarded up today, closed due to lack of students. That in itself is a testimony.

Second, we had what they called a “Vocation Rally” every year for seventh grade students. We’d all get on a bus and go to Seton Hall University. They had booths set up for every religious community in the Archdiocese. I loved it! The last Vocation Rally was held in either 1968 or 69.

I’ll stop there.
 
Vatican II is often blamed for causing problems. I was there for the changeover. A new altar was brought in, the priest faced the congregation and Mass was now in English. A little later, not eating meat on Friday was let go. That’s it.

The real problem occurred in 1968 when Humanae Vitae was published. The Hippies appeared to help separate younger people from their parents and from sexual morality as it had been practiced by the majority to that point. By 1970, some priests and nuns were leaving:

time.com/time/covers/0,16641,19700223,00.html

Peace,
Ed
 
A few more observations as to how we were. Before 1962 Catholics lived in the “Catholic Ghetto.” Catholics married Catholics and often tried to marry into their own ethnic group. Mixed marriages took place in the Rectory and the non-catholic spouse had to promise in writing to raise any children Catholic. Catholics did not belong to or go to the “Y” or mix with non-Catholics.Suicides were not allowed to be buried in a Catholic cemetery. Larger families, some as large as a dozen kids or more, could be found in most parishes. The vast majority of Catholics would not be found dead praying with anyone who was not Catholic or even darkening the door of a non-Catholic church.

Our close friends were from the Catholic School that many in the North East, South West and Mid-West attended. A divorced Catholic who remarried was a rarity and if you knew one you also knew they were sure going to hell. Eating meat on a Friday was a forbidden practice and most Catholics obeyed whether it might be socially awkward or not. Most parishes had at least two priests and sometimes many more. My wife’s Redemptorist Parish had over twenty in residence. At least 80 percent or more of caqtholics attended Mass at least once per week and many of us were fervent Democrats because the Democratic Party at the time was the party of the working stiff.

We paid our Nuns and Sisters a pittance while honoring and respecting them a great deal. They would never have been involved in new-age stuff,witchcraft, or non-Catholic forms of prayer. We felt we were morally superior to people of other religions or ethnic groups and believed it deep into our souls.

Today we are statistically just like everyone else in almost everything. Those who are different are looked at as oddities who don’t fit in.🤷🤷
 
In Detroit in the 1950s, large families were not common. On my street alone, starting at the first House: 2, 2, 0, 3, 1, 1, 3, 1, 2, 0.

We Catholics never felt morally superior. There were different ethnic groups in our area and not everyone went to our Church. We got along just fine.

Peace,
Ed
 
edwest2 said:
In Detroit in the 1950s, large families were not common. On my street alone, starting at the first House: 2, 2, 0, 3, 1, 1, 3, 1, 2, 0.

We Catholics never felt morally superior. There were different ethnic groups in our area and not everyone went to our Church. We got along just fine.

Peace,
Ed
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I grew up in a small town about 45 miles northeast of Detroit. Mostly proud German folks in the parish. At least two of my friends were from families larger than 12 kids, 5 to 6 kids were not uncommon. Most of the kids from those larger families grew up with an attitude against large families. I graduated Catholic High School in 1954. Most class mates had married within five years of graduation. Detroit was probably a whole different place as the white people raced for the suburbs.
 
Our churches were actually churches as they should be, and not like the modern ones that look like a cow barn, also mass was beautiful in latin and you could hear a pin drop when you walked into a Catholic church, not so today, thanks to vatican two.:mad:
 
\The Sisters of Charity had about 65 girls average enter every year. Maryknoll had sometimes over 100 postulants enter. \

**And how many went on to vows?

One other thing–before 1962, there weren’t as many occupations that women would consider, or be considered for, either.

Female physiclans, for one thing, were relatively rare.

Seriously, nuns who were not contemplative were either teaching or nursing. Know any who did anything else?**

\ Our churches were actually churches as they should be, and not like the modern ones that look like a cow barn,\

"Cow barn" is exactly the term used in the movie THE AGONY AND THE ECSTASY to describe the Sistine Chapel when Pope Julius asked Michaelangelo to do something about the ceiling.
 
Tantum_ergo said:
Sunday was a real ‘break’ in the weekly routine. Malls were just coming in; few places had them. Stores weren’t open. People went out for drives after church or over to the relatives, or came home and read books (Gasp) or played games like Monopoly or sat around somebody who played piano or guitar, or in good weather went outside and played badminton, rode bikes, worked in the garden. .
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Well, we didn’t work in the garden, as we would have considered that not honoring the day of rest. It is completely correct, however, that you note the qualitative difference between Sunday and the other days of the week. We rested, we recreated. There was very little work done, and, as you note, very little shopping because so few stores were open! Department stores were closed, and I don’t even remember if supermarkets were open on Sunday. You basically had to get your errands done by Saturday afternoon for practical reasons, and your chores done by Saturday evening because it was considered bad form to do significant work on a Sunday (mow the lawn, clean the house, that type of thing). It wasn’t just Catholics, btw; Protestant neighbors did the same. I was not very old but I remembered all of this – how different the character of Sunday was. It was like a mini-vacation once a week.

You’re so right: visiting relatives, & having them visit, was huge. We often took drives (you’re right again). Occasionally we drove not to a particular destination, but just because our parents wanted to show us some scenery, or even stop in and visit a site that might have been open on a Sunday, or just visit a landmark – enjoy some architecture, walk around it. I cherish that time in my life. Twice a month we drove into the City and “did” the City for a whole day, although that had to be a Saturday, because again, stores & attractions just weren’t open on Sunday, and often not restaurants, either.

So not only were our lives paced, with frenzy kept out of the weekend and enjoyment put into it, I also agree with post #5. No practicing Catholic, including my very young friends at the time, did not know the basics of their faith. It was twice a week Catechism for any child not attending Catholic school. And there was nothing wishy-washy, new Age-ish, or confusing about what we were taught,
 
Are you sure the decline was not due in part by society? Today there is the pill, women in college, pragmatism, materialism , narcissism , and etc.? (This is not to say women in college is bad!)

Vatican II never meant this from what I know. The implementation brought this ugly “Spirit of Vatican II” into Catholicism.

Do you see the pendulum swinging back with Pope Benedict XVI in the Chair of Peter?
 
Well, there is the shining example of Residential Schools pre-1962.
 
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