What was the context behind Islam?

[thephilosopher6]

I recall a children’s taunt: ‘If you love it so much, why don’t you marry it?’

LOL.

I am perfectly happy being Anglican, thank you.

I have been honored to pray with Muslims, and with Jews, and Buddhists, etc, (as has your own Pope), but it doesn’t mean I want to become a Muslim, a Jew, a Buddhist.

Are you insulting me?

The fact that you let them pray in your churches is horrible. Even though you guys don’t have the real presence, it’s still a Christian Church devoted to God! If anything like that ever happens in a Catholic Church that would be scandalous!

 

[thephilosopher6]

And millions upon millions of loving, caring and patient Muslims see the same qualities in Muhammad.

It is important to reflect and ponder on the “good relations” (as you wish to put it) which the Catholic Church is striving to create and if the thoughts that Muslims worship Satan is within those “good relations” parameters?

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I don’t believe Muslims worship Satan. But they believe a twisted view of God.

 

[Servant19]

I don’t believe Muslims worship Satan. But they believe a twisted view of God.

Dear friend, it can’t be too twisted if they pray 5 times a day, fast yearly to remind themselves to be “not of this world”, and are caring, loving, socially conscious, and charitable people.

What is so twisted?

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[thephilosopher6]

Dear friend, it can’t be too twisted if they pray 5 times a day, fast yearly to remind themselves to be “not of this world”, and are caring, loving, socially conscious, and charitable people.

What is so twisted?

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Well for one they deny the divinity of our Lord Jesus Christ. Oh, and they deny his passion and resurrection which saves us from our sins. So, they are blasphemers. Also, they believe God wants them to enforce Sharia law which is a horrible and barbaric set of laws. Many also commit multiple acts of violence in Gods name (yes, e very religion has it loonies. But when time and time again Muslims have been blowing themselves up in the name of Islam… you know that it’s not just something wrong with the people… but also something wrong with the religion itself).

 

[Servant19]

Well for one they deny the divinity of our Lord Jesus Christ. Oh, and they deny his passion and resurrection which saves us from our sins. So, they are blasphemers. Also, they believe God wants them to enforce Sharia law which is a horrible and barbaric set of laws. Many also commit multiple acts of violence in Gods name (yes, e very religion has it loonies. But when time and time again Muslims have been blowing themselves up in the name of Islam… you know that it’s not just something wrong with the people… but also something wrong with the religion itself).

I think you may benefit from a thorough study of Islam. A Sufi Muslim may also give you some literature on the Divinity of Jesus also

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[thephilosopher6]

I think you may benefit from a thorough study of Islam. A Sufi Muslim may also give you some literature on the Divinity of Jesus also

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I will never ever consider anything other than Christianity. For, Christianity is the only religion with proof of itself. That is by the resurrection of Christ. No other religion has claimed it leader to have died shamefully, and then resurrected three days later. The resurrection is the foundation of our faith and with it we can know that Christianity is true. With it, we know Christ is God. Muhammad is dead. Buddha is dead. Bahá’u’lláh is dead. They are all dead, and they have stayed dead. But Jesus has risen! Jesus is alive and he is Lord!

 

[TonyBS]

I will never ever consider anything other than Christianity. For, Christianity is the only religion with proof of itself. That is by the resurrection of Christ. No other religion has claimed it leader to have died shamefully, and then resurrected three days later. The resurrection is the foundation of our faith and with it we can know that Christianity is true. With it, we know Christ is God. Muhammad is dead. Buddha is dead. Bahá’u’lláh is dead. They are all dead, and they have stayed dead. But Jesus has risen! Jesus is alive and he is Lord!

Your proof to the risen Jesus is the same we all use

They are as all dead as YOU make them.

God bless and regards Tony

 

[thephilosopher6]

Your proof to the risen Jesus is the same we all use

They are as all dead as YOU make them.

God bless and regards Tony

Can you rephrase that so it makes more sense? I want to be able to properly respond.

 

[ComplineSanFran]

BTW, just want to quickly add (and this may sound like a nitpick) but when you say “Roman Catholic Church” are you referring to the entire Catholic Church? Because all Roman Catholics are Catholic, but not all Catholics are Roman Catholic. The Roman rite is the largest rite used in the Latin Church and probably largest rite used in the entire Catholic Church. However, not all belong to the Roman rite. There are other rites in the Latin Church such as the Ambrosian rite and the Mozarabic rite. Also, we have our Eastern Catholic brethren who are made up of a large variety or Churches and use many different rites. There are Byzantine Catholics, Maronites Catholics, Coptic Catholics, Chaldean Catholics, etc. They are not Roman Catholics. The term “Roman Catholic” is simply a nickname and has sometimes been used by Catholics themselves to describe the Church. However, our official name is simply the Catholic Church and the term “Roman Catholic Church” does not accurately describe the Church. We are the one, holy, Catholic, and apostolic Church that Christ alone founded. There are no other Catholic Churches and there certainly isn’t multiple Churches that form one single entity called the Catholic Church; which is contrary to the heretical Anglican branch theory. The term “Roman Catholic” can sometimes be derogatory towards members of the Catholic Church since it wrongly describes the whole of the Church and assumes that we are just one branch of the Catholic Church when it reality we simply are the Catholic Church and there is no other. I just wanted to clarify that.

There are of course many classifications of Catholics. When I refer to the Roman Catholic Church, I am generally referring to the Latin Catholic Church, as I believe most people do. This is to differentiate from other branches of Catholic Churches. I am thinking of Anglo-Catholic, Old Catholics, Polish Catholics, Celtic Catholics, Independent Catholics, of course the Eastern Catholics. And many more.

So universal, yes. Catholic, yes. But the Church is much broader than the Roman Catholic Church, as many of us on here can testify. Perhaps you disagree. That is perfectly fine.

(And just as a polite note, it doesn’t help the gesture of charity, especially on the Non Catholic Religions forum, to keep on calling people in our faith communities such words as ‘heretics’, ‘blasphemers’, and ‘twisted’ and ‘barbaric.’ Respect makes a big difference.)

 

[TonyBS]

Can you rephrase that so it makes more sense? I want to be able to properly respond.

To put it in context of the thread.

The Spirit of Muhamad is as alive as the Spirit of Christ.

To offer an arguement against this is fruitless.

Regards Tony

 

[thephilosopher6]

There are of course many classifications of Catholics. When I refer to the Roman Catholic Church, I am generally referring to the Latin Catholic Church, as I believe most people do. This is to differentiate from other branches of Catholic Churches. I am thinking of Anglo-Catholic, Old Catholics, Polish Catholics, Celtic Catholics, Independent Catholics, of course the Eastern Catholics. And many more.

So universal, yes. Catholic, yes. But the Church is much broader than the Roman Catholic Church, as many of us on here can testify. Perhaps you disagree. That is perfectly fine.

(And just as a polite note, it doesn’t help the gesture of charity, especially on the Non Catholic Religions forum, to keep on calling people in our faith communities such words as ‘heretics’, ‘blasphemers’, and ‘twisted’ and ‘barbaric.’ Respect makes a big difference.)

Anglo-Catholics are Anglicans that hold to much Catholic theology but belong to the Anglican Communion and therefore are not Catholic.

When you say Polish Catholics, I assume you refer to the Polish National Catholic Church? They are not Catholic. They have separated from the Catholic Church. If you mean just regular Polish Catholics in communion with Rome, then they are just regular Catholics…

Old Catholics are not Catholic since they began to separate after Vatican I.

Celtic Catholics? Most Catholics in the British Isles belong to the Catholic Church, specifically of the Roman rite. Unless there is some heretical group that broke from the Catholic Church I do not know about?

Independent Catholics are not Catholic since they separated from the Catholic Church.

Eastern Catholics are Catholic since they are in full communion with Rome. They are not apart of the Roman Church but they are in full communion with Rome. They have different liturgy’s and traditions but are fully 100% Catholic.

There is one Catholic Church that was founded by Christ and built on Peter, the rock. Roman Catholics are the largest group of Catholics in the Catholic Church and belong specifically to the Latin Church. But there are many more groups and Churches in the Catholic Church. All of which are in communion with Rome. Any Church not in communion with Rome is not Catholic and not apart of the Church described in the Nicene Creed, and is either part of a schismatic sect or Church, or a heretical sect or Church. Anglicans, for example (and I am not trying to offend) are a heretical sect outside of the Catholic Church. Eastern Orthodox are a schismatic Church (since they do have apostolic succession, they can be considered a Church) and they are outside of the Catholic Church. They are not heretical since they hold no heretical doctrines (denying the primacy of the Pope is not heresy it’s simply schism).

(Also, the words such as heretics and blasphemers is the proper wording. Vatican II avoided using the words for the sake of ecumenism. However, they are the proper words to use and are in no way meant to be offensive. But unfortunately, in this day and age, they are taken as such.)

 

[Servant19]

I will never ever consider anything other than Christianity. For, Christianity is the only religion with proof of itself. That is by the resurrection of Christ. No other religion has claimed it leader to have died shamefully, and then resurrected three days later. The resurrection is the foundation of our faith and with it we can know that Christianity is true. With it, we know Christ is God. Muhammad is dead. Buddha is dead. Bahá’u’lláh is dead. They are all dead, and they have stayed dead. But Jesus has risen! Jesus is alive and he is Lord!

I’m not really asking you to consider changing religion philosopher, I’m asking you to seek Truth.

Many of your posts about Islam is very far from the Truth.

Correct and righteous relationship with God demands speaking the truth.

Just as a by the way, where is Jesus right now since you think He is the only living Being other than those alive on earth today?

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[thephilosopher6]

I’m not really asking you to consider changing religion philosopher, I’m asking you to seek Truth.

Many of your posts about Islam is very far from the Truth.

Correct and righteous relationship with God demands speaking the truth.

Just as a by the way, where is Jesus right now since you think He is the only living Being other than those alive on earth today?

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I am seeking truth. About a year ago I had similar views of Islam as you. But my seeking of truth has lead me here. My seeking of truth has lead me back to the Catholic Church.

Where is Jesus? He is in heaven. Jesus has a glorified body meaning he can do more things than you can with a regular body. It is the same body he was born with. It is the same body he died with. It is just now glorified and can do things a regular body cannot do. In fact, the Church teaches that when we are resurrected we will also receive a glorified body. But it is not a different body. It is the same body we were born with. It is the same body we died with. Glorification of the body is the ultimate perfection of the body. In fact, it’s even better than the body Adam and Eve had before the fall of mankind.

 

[thephilosopher6]

To put it in context of the thread.

The Spirit of Muhamad is as alive as the Spirit of Christ.

To offer an arguement against this is fruitless.

Regards Tony

The spirit is Muhammad is in the afterlife somewhere. Now, I cannot judge where anyone is. The Church does not proclaim to know who is in hell and by all accounts… it’s possible Muhammad is in heaven. But it’s highly highly highly unlikely.

Jesus is not just alive spiritually, but he is alive physically. Muhammad is dead! He is dead and is not coming back until the end of time when Jesus judges him. Jesus is alive right now in his physical body, the same he was born with and died with, and he is heaven right now.

 

[Servant19]

The spirit is Muhammad is in the afterlife somewhere. Now, I cannot judge where anyone is. The Church does not proclaim to know who is in hell and by all accounts… it’s possible Muhammad is in heaven. But it’s highly highly highly unlikely.

Jesus is not just alive spiritually, but he is alive physically. Muhammad is dead! He is dead and is not coming back until the end of time when Jesus judges him. Jesus is alive right now in his physical body, the same he was born with and died with, and he is heaven right now.

He’s not alive physically philosopher. He was sown a physical body.

He was raised a SPIRITUAL body, not a physical body. It’s unBiblical to say He has a physical body.

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[Servant19]

I am seeking truth. About a year ago I had similar views of Islam as you. But my seeking of truth has lead me here. My seeking of truth has lead me back to the Catholic Church.

Where is Jesus? He is in heaven. Jesus has a glorified body meaning he can do more things than you can with a regular body. It is the same body he was born with. It is the same body he died with. It is just now glorified and can do things a regular body cannot do. In fact, the Church teaches that when we are resurrected we will also receive a glorified body. But it is not a different body. It is the same body we were born with. It is the same body we died with. Glorification of the body is the ultimate perfection of the body. In fact, it’s even better than the body Adam and Eve had before the fall of mankind.

It’s not a “view” of Islam I have. It is the “Truth” about Islam, borne out of study and prayer and reflection, without allowing any idol word to blot out the purity of my heart.

What you are stating are “views”…anyone can formulate a view on anything, but is it Truth? No

In regards to resurrection, what are you going to do with your glorified body, philosopher?

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[thephilosopher6]

He’s not alive physically philosopher. He was sown a physical body.

He was raised a SPIRITUAL body, not a physical body. It’s unBiblical to say He has a physical body.

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What blasphemy! The Bible proclaims Christ was raised PHYSICALLY. Your ideas that he was raised spiritually is reminiscent of Gnosticism and new age beliefs. If Christ was not raised physically, there would be no reason for the apostles to go out into the world and proclaim salvation to all.

As Saint Paul says, “If Christ has not been raised, our preaching is worthless, and your faith is in vain.” - 1 Corinthians 15:14

The Greek word used for resurrection in the New Testament is ἀνάστασις anastasis. It literally means to stand up or to rise up physically.

Most modern scholars do believe that Christians really did believe Christ was raised physically. How would such a small Jewish sect with a crucified leader spread across the Roman empire and become the dominate religion of the world? Not even believing he rose spiritually would make Christianity grow like that nor give the apostles any kind of motivation to go out into the world to spread the message of salvation. It had to be physical resurrection.

 

[thephilosopher6]

It’s not a “view” of Islam I have. It is the “Truth” about Islam, borne out of study and prayer and reflection, without allowing any idol word to blot out the purity of my heart.

What you are stating are “views”…anyone can formulate a view on anything, but is it Truth? No

In regards to resurrection, what are you going to do with your glorified body, philosopher?

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Then what you believe are just “views.” There have been many people who have study Islam extensively like you such as scholar Robert Spencer. jihadwatch.org/about-robert

Now, what will I do with my glorified body? Eh, probably just worship and praise the name of God. Maybe walk through a few walls here and there. You know, the usual stuff.

 

[Servant19]

What blasphemy! The Bible proclaims Christ was raised PHYSICALLY. Your ideas that he was raised spiritually is reminiscent of Gnosticism and new age beliefs. If Christ was not raised physically, there would be no reason for the apostles to go out into the world and proclaim salvation to all.

As Saint Paul says, “If Christ has not been raised, our preaching is worthless, and your faith is in vain.” - 1 Corinthians 15:14

The Greek word used for resurrection in the New Testament is ἀνάστασις anastasis. It literally means to stand up or to rise up physically.

Most modern scholars do believe that Christians really did believe Christ was raised physically. How would such a small Jewish sect with a crucified leader spread across the Roman empire and become the dominate religion of the world? Not even believing he rose spiritually would make Christianity grow like that nor give the apostles any kind of motivation to go out into the world to spread the message of salvation. It had to be physical resurrection.

Dear friend, I cannot sit here and argue about the meanings of Greek words. Please research for yourself. Anastasis means to raise up or to resurrect. There is no “physical” in the definition.

This is what I mean about reading the Truth about these things. You should not accept anyone’s word for it, not even mine. Please go ahead and ask a Greek language scholar, not a Greek Christian scholar.

“It is planted a physical body but is raised a spiritual body. If there is a physical body, there is also a spiritual body.” - 1 Cor 15:44

It is sown a physical body philosopher.

Please research. We are getting off topic now.

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[Servant19]

Then what you believe are just “views.” There have been many people who have study Islam extensively like you such as scholar Robert Spencer. jihadwatch.org/about-robert

Please dear philosopher. I can tell you a lot of “Truths” about a lot of things if my intent was hate. Mr. Spencer is well known for what his intentions are with Islam…almost goes against the Catholic Church in many ways!

Why not read the stuff from Muslims who intend to glorify Islam? Is your eyes trying to build and create love, or destroy and create hate?

Now, what will I do with my glorified body? Eh, probably just worship and praise the name of God. Maybe walk through a few walls here and there. You know, the usual stuff.

Walking is a blasphemy of the need for a glorified body. Walking through walls?? This is blasphemy also…

Please read St. Thomas Aquinus on this subject.

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