What was the context behind Islam?

[thephilosopher6]

Dear friend, I cannot sit here and argue about the meanings of Greek words. Please research for yourself. Anastasis means to raise up or to resurrect. There is no “physical” in the definition.

This is what I mean about reading the Truth about these things. You should not accept anyone’s word for it, not even mine. Please go ahead and ask a Greek language scholar, not a Greek Christian scholar.

“It is planted a physical body but is raised a spiritual body. If there is a physical body, there is also a spiritual body.” - 1 Cor 15:44

It is sown a physical body philosopher.

Please research. We are getting off topic now.

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386 anástasis (from 303 /aná, “up, again” and 2476 /hístēmi, “to stand”) – literally, “stand up” (or “stand again”), referring to physical resurrection (of the body).
biblehub.com/greek/386.htm

When Paul says spiritual body he is talking about our glorified body. As Christ says in Mark 12:25, “When the dead rise, they will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven.” The Jews believed at the end of time we would be physically raised. There is no doubt about this among scholars and it seems to have risen out of Second Temple Judaism. Jesus was a Second Temple Jew. He would have believed in the physical resurrection. But in our physical resurrection our body will be transformed to be like the angels in heaven.

You keep telling me to do my research… I have and still am… I have taken extensive studys in the New Testament. I have some knowledge of Koine Greek. Though, I am no expert in it I can read and interpret it well. I am not a great biblical scholar either. But, well… try me is all I can say. Lol

So tell me, what are you doing?

 

[thephilosopher6]

Please dear philosopher. I can tell you a lot of “Truths” about a lot of things if my intent was hate. Mr. Spencer is well known for what his intentions are with Islam…almost goes against the Catholic Church in many ways!

Why not read the stuff from Muslims who intend to glorify Islam? Is your eyes trying to build and create love, or destroy and create hate?

Walking is a blasphemy of the need for a glorified body. Walking through walls?? This is blasphemy also…

Please read St. Thomas Aquinus on this subject.

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I am trying to spread truth. Islam is an evil abomination which has done nothing throughout the century’s but conquer and commit acts of violence. As Samuel P. Huntington says in his book “The Clash of Civilizations”, whenever an Islamic civilization comes into contact with a non-Islamic civilization, there is always bloodshed and violence.

Aquinas talked about Subtlety in our glorified body. Meaning our body will act very spiritual and we could do things like walk through walls.

 

[Servant19]

Aquinas talked about Subtlety in our glorified body. Meaning our body will act very spiritual and we could do things like walk through walls.

Please show me where Aquinas says we can walk through walls?

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[thephilosopher6]

Please show me where Aquinas says we can walk through walls?

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newadvent.org/summa/5083.htm#article1

 

[Servant19]

newadvent.org/summa/5083.htm#article1

Thankyou. I am familiar with this document and have studied it.

I asked for “where” in this document have you read that with our glorified bodies that we will walk through walls in heaven?

Please quote it

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[thephilosopher6]

Thankyou. I am familiar with this document and have studied it.

I asked for “where” in this document have you read that with our glorified bodies that we will walk through walls in heaven?

Please quote it

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Well, to make clear we will be on earth. It will be heaven on earth. Though, he does not out right say it he highly implies it in Article 6. “our Lord offered His flesh to be handled, which He had brought in through the closed doors, so as to afford a complete proof that after His resurrection His body was unchanged in nature though changed in glory.”

All Catholic theologians agree that when Aquinas talks about the Subtlety of the body he is speaking of the supernatural qualities our body will have including things such as walking through walls.

 

[Servant19]

386 anástasis (from 303 /aná, “up, again” and 2476 /hístēmi, “to stand”) – literally, “stand up” (or “stand again”), referring to physical resurrection (of the body).
biblehub.com/greek/386.htm

This is a Bible source.
Please give me an official GREEK source not related to a Church of any kind.
Maybe Google Translate? Or a Greek language university site.

When Paul says spiritual body he is talking about our glorified body. As Christ says in Mark 12:25, “When the dead rise, they will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven.” The Jews believed at the end of time we would be physically raised. There is no doubt about this among scholars and it seems to have risen out of Second Temple Judaism. Jesus was a Second Temple Jew. He would have believed in the physical resurrection. But in our physical resurrection our body will be transformed to be like the angels in heaven.

Yes glorified body is a SPIRITUAL body, as OPPOSED to a PHYSICAL body which is sown

You keep telling me to do my research… I have and still am… I have taken extensive studys in the New Testament. I have some knowledge of Koine Greek. Though, I am no expert in it I can read and interpret it well. I am not a great biblical scholar either. But, well… try me is all I can say. Lol

So tell me, what are you doing?

It’s wonderful you are doing good research and I commend it and recommend you do more.

Until your last breath I recommend you avoid making statements about other religions until you are absolutely certain about what you are saying.

You’ve done little to no research on Islam, given to you by a Muslim scholar.

Unfortunately, Mr.Spencer has some questions to answer for drawing you away from God and the Spirit rather than towards Him.

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[Servant19]

Well, to make clear we will be on earth. It will be heaven on earth. Though, he does not out right say it he highly implies it in Article 6. “our Lord offered His flesh to be handled, which He had brought in through the closed doors, so as to afford a complete proof that after His resurrection His body was unchanged in nature though changed in glory.”

All Catholic theologians agree that when Aquinas talks about the Subtlety of the body he is speaking of the supernatural qualities our body will have including things such as walking through walls.

I would recommend then you, and the scholars you are learning from stick to what was written EXACTLY, rather than making man-made conclusions which draw people away from God.

Aquinas talks conclusively on the glorified body, but does not imply anywhere what it CAN DO in heaven. Anyone who says this or that about what the glorified body can do is creating man-made interpretation which is likely drawing people away from Truth.

Stick precisely to Scripture

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[thephilosopher6]

This is a Bible source.
Please give me an official GREEK source not related to a Church of any kind.
Maybe Google Translate? Or a Greek language university site.

Yes glorified body is a SPIRITUAL body, as OPPOSED to a PHYSICAL body which is sown



It’s wonderful you are doing good research and I commend it and recommend you do more.

Until your last breath I recommend you avoid making statements about other religions until you are absolutely certain about what you are saying.

You’ve done little to no research on Islam, given to you by a Muslim scholar.

Unfortunately, Mr.Spencer has some questions to answer for drawing you away from God and the Spirit rather than towards Him.

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Google translate sucks. Besides, they use Modern Greek not Koine Greek. I can’t find a good translator anywhere.

No, a spiritual body in that the physical body will be a total SUBJECT of the spirit. Besides, even if Paul does believe we will be raised spiritually, he undoubtedly believes Christ was raised physically.

You’ve done little to no research on New Testament study’s. Look, I am not top scholar here, but I do know what I am talking about. I have been taking classes on New Testament study’s for some time now.

 

[thephilosopher6]

I would recommend then you, and the scholars you are learning from stick to what was written EXACTLY, rather than making man-made conclusions which draw people away from God.

Aquinas talks conclusively on the glorified body, but does not imply anywhere what it CAN DO in heaven. Anyone who says this or that about what the glorified body can do is creating man-made interpretation which is likely drawing people away from Truth.

Stick precisely to Scripture

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You highly misunderstand Aquinas. Anyone who really knows Aquinas would know this about him. This is BASIC Catholic theology. I mean… come on… you are literally just trying to get around these things now. You have no good knowledge of Aquinas. I’m not an expert in Aquinas. To be frank, I have not even finished the Summa. But come on man! Your conclusions are… well… ridiculous! Both with Aquinas and with the New Testament.

You Bahais never fail to annoy me with your ridiculous interpretations. I mean, you say our interpretations are man made… well look at yours! Your religion is a product of its time when there was kind of an Adventist movement among Shias in Persia that the Mahdi was coming soon. Neither the Bab nor his successor proved they were from God in anyway. Whether they actually believe what they preached I cannot say. But man, Bahaism is a pretty ridiculous new age religion if you ask me.

 

[Servant19]

You highly misunderstand Aquinas. Anyone who really knows Aquinas would know this about him. This is BASIC Catholic theology. I mean… come on… you are literally just trying to get around these things now. You have no good knowledge of Aquinas. I’m not an expert in Aquinas. To be frank, I have not even finished the Summa. But come on man! Your conclusions are… well… ridiculous! Both with Aquinas and with the New Testament.

You Bahais never fail to annoy me with your ridiculous interpretations. I mean, you say our interpretations are man made… well look at yours! Your religion is a product of its time when there was kind of an Adventist movement among Shias in Persia that the Mahdi was coming soon. Neither the Bab nor his successor proved they were from God in anyway. Whether they actually believe what they preached I cannot say. But man, Bahaism is a pretty ridiculous new age religion if you ask me.

Thankyou for your Godly words

Inspirational!

Tell me, were the interpretations of the Old Testament given by Jesus not seen as “ridiculous interpretations” by the Pharisees?

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[Michael96]

There’s a good 10 minute talk from a non-Muslim on the Q’ran here. It helps to address some common stereotypes:

ted.com/talks/lesley_hazelton_on_reading_the_koran?language=en

The description: Lesley Hazleton sat down one day to read the Koran. And what she found — as a non-Muslim, a self-identified “tourist” in the Islamic holy book — wasn’t what she expected. With serious scholarship and warm humor, Hazleton shares the grace, flexibility and mystery she found, in this myth-debunking talk.

 

[thephilosopher6]

Thankyou for your Godly words

Inspirational!

Tell me, were the interpretations of the Old Testament given by Jesus not seen as “ridiculous interpretations” by the Pharisees?

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But you see, the problem is is that so much of what you say can be so easily refuted. Because its so contrary to what we know and reason. Christ on the other hand…

 

[Servant19]

But you see, the problem is is that so much of what you say can be so easily refuted. Because its so contrary to what we know and reason. Christ on the other hand…

Please refute.

That which is flesh is flesh and that which is spirit is spirit.

In this context then, how are you “spiritualising” a physical body?

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[Servant19]

There’s a good 10 minute talk from a non-Muslim on the Q’ran here. It helps to address some common stereotypes:

ted.com/talks/lesley_hazelton_on_reading_the_koran?language=en

The description: Lesley Hazleton sat down one day to read the Koran. And what she found — as a non-Muslim, a self-identified “tourist” in the Islamic holy book — wasn’t what she expected. With serious scholarship and warm humor, Hazleton shares the grace, flexibility and mystery she found, in this myth-debunking talk.

All it takes is one small step towards removing prejudices, and God will do the rest

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[Kaninchen]

Islam is more monotheistic than the Jewish and Christian faith.

Perhaps you might explain just how Islam is more monotheistic than Judaism?

“Sh’ma Yisrael, Adonai Eloheinu, Adonai Echad.”

 

[Dorothy]

Please show me where Aquinas says we can walk through walls?

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After His resurrection Jesus appeared in the locked upper room to the disciples. On another occasion after His resurrection he ate with them.

 

[Vic_Taltrees_UK]

Perhaps you might explain just how Islam is more monotheistic than Judaism?

“Sh’ma Yisrael, Adonai Eloheinu, Adonai Echad.”

The book of Jeremiah tells us not to be afraid of other gods and in I Ki 18 the God of Elijah acted differently from Baal (who merely “had a grip on” his followers).

The Commandments say not to have other gods before or above Him. In Joshua’s time many of the people said they would go with Joshua’s God and not other ones.

The term henotheism was reputedly coined to reflect this nuance.

There is another connotation around monotheism in that Christians see Trinity as compatible with monotheism but most Jews and all Muslims (I think) don’t. Hebrew Scriptures (a major part of Christian ones) have the Trinity in germ though that makes most Jews nervous. Muslims have different Scriptures anyway, as well as a completely different relationship between scripture and tradition.

My main thrust in post 3 was to hint that the fashionable “Abrahamic” label is quite weak as a specific “category” other than that he is to some people to some extent a “cultural icon” of in fact rather differing kinds.

I am couching my answer in terms that relate to the concepts that often get brought up in relation to this kind of enquiry, e.g the equation of monotheism (variously meant) both with something extremely unusual and with “Abrahamic”.

This is only part of the background to Islam of course. Hoping that helps.

 

[Kaninchen]

Hoping that helps.

Not even vaguely.

 

[thephilosopher6]

Please refute.

That which is flesh is flesh and that which is spirit is spirit.

In this context then, how are you “spiritualising” a physical body?

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Read the context, “No one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of WATER and of spirit.” That is a reference to baptism. I don’t see where you’re going with this. The Gospel of John was written specifically to refute those who believe what you do as there were Gnostic at the time who had some similar beliefs as you. We have both internal and external evidence for this in John .