The communication had something to do with that back then. But today’s technology, it’s no longer an excuse. And how many years are we to endure watching the irreverence displayed in most NO messes???
The Ordinary Form is not required to face the congregation, have female altar servers, or say Mass in the vernacular, and that was started by liberal Catholics.
Amen.
Well, a lot of us were around in the 70’s 80’s 90’s and up until today and we **know for a fact **that liturgical abuse and innovation has plagued and continues to plague the Pauline Rite.
This one always cracks me up
I hope you were bein sarcastic!Well, a lot of us were around in the 70’s 80’s 90’s and up until today and we **know for a fact **that liturgical abuse and innovation has plagued and continues to plague the Pauline Rite.
As far as the abuses, how did you put it, as we have already established were present in the Traditional Mass in the 20th century, what exactly were they?
I’ll tell you what they were. the same old tired song and dance that those opposed to the mass have said since the time of the Reformation. Exactly the same.
Speed masses : 7 minute 5 minute no wait my dad knew a guy who heard about 3 minute Sunday Masses somewhere back in the day:thumbsup:
Nobody understanding whats going on: red herring , but they never fail to bring it up in spite of testimony to the contrary:banghead:
Priests mumbling away in a dead language:
Priests mangling or misstating the words, for example
“Bread thou art and bread thou will remain”
Funny, Luther said exactly the same thing and we all know what he wanted and what his true motivation was. How many kids did he have after he married the former Nun, was it six or seven? I forget And as far as misstating the words, if no one could hear them or even understand them, how in the world did they know?
And the biggie I guess
PEOPLE PRAYING THE ROSARY:bigyikes: :bigyikes: :bigyikes: :bigyikes: Doesn’t get much worse than that does it?
Have I left anything out??
I’m going to go out on a limb and disagree here… in the EF masses that I attend, whenever the priest says something directly to the congregation (ie, Dominus vobiscum), he will turn around and face us when he says it.The Ordinary Form is not required to face the congregation, have female altar servers, or say Mass in the vernacular, and that was started by liberal Catholics.
Just the tired old song and dance coming from your side of abuses of the NO - let’s see if I remember 'em all:Well, a lot of us were around in the 70’s 80’s 90’s and up until today and we **know for a fact **that liturgical abuse and innovation has plagued and continues to plague the Pauline Rite.
As far as the abuses, how did you put it, as we have already established were present in the Traditional Mass in the 20th century, what exactly were they?
I’ll tell you what they were. the same old tired song and dance that those opposed to the mass have said since the time of the Reformation. Exactly the same.
Speed masses : 7 minute 5 minute no wait my dad knew a guy who heard about 3 minute Sunday Masses somewhere back in the day:thumbsup:
Nobody understanding whats going on: red herring , but they never fail to bring it up in spite of testimony to the contrary:banghead:
Priests mumbling away in a dead language:
Priests mangling or misstating the words, for example
“Bread thou art and bread thou will remain”
Funny, Luther said exactly the same thing and we all know what he wanted and what his true motivation was. How many kids did he have after he married the former Nun, was it six or seven? I forget And as far as misstating the words, if no one could hear them or even understand them, how in the world did they know?
And the biggie I guess
PEOPLE PRAYING THE ROSARY Doesn’t get much worse than that does it?
Have I left anything out??
Almost 50 yrs. after I graduated from high school, I can still hear our Latin teacher…Mother Mayer…saying, “Think of Latin as a gym class for the brain”, children. That it was, but it’s also proven quite handy. One who knows Latin can decipher many of the more polysylabic English words. While English is a Germanic language, the words given to us by the German language are usually the most basic. Of the 100 most common words in the English language (words like the, a, I, tree, farm, etc.), only a handful come form Latin, while words that are longer and often more obscure are dominated by Latin.
My Father was a gentleman in the true sense of the word. He was both gentle & manly. Had any of us children ever said "Mom, Mom, Mom at Mass, or even spoken aloud, I think we’d have been “dead meat”.
Ah SILENCE. It’s so dreaded & feared by today’s society. There is always a radio playing, a TV. blaring away in the background. Which is why I walk daily in the woods with my Labrador Retriever. No traffic noise, no cell phone bleating, just Ben & I &, though I talk to him about everything, he can be happy without conversation. Many people can’t be.
Great. Then since you have established that no abuses exist in the Pauline, pray tell me which ones you have determined to exist in the Traditional.?
One rogue parish makes a bad NO, of course. And necessarily a bad country as well.
By the way, there’s no mention of liturgical dance anywhere, so you still can’t say there’s any going on here in Oz! Epic fail 
Do we have such confusion before VaticanII?Absolutely we had ‘such confusion’. Do you think those hordes of Protestants who so quickly turned their back on the teaching of transubstantiation (many of them going further and denying the Real Presence altogether) all to a man perfectly understood and accepted it while Catholic? Or the Church’s teachings about Papal authority as England did under Henry VIII?Today, many catholic have different opinions of a matter even if the Church has already taught what is Truth on the issue. Many so-called catholics today who go to mass yet feel that abortion or contraception are ok, or divorce should be allowed by the Bishops – and yes they recieve communion.
One rogue parish makes a bad NO, of course. And necessarily a bad country as well.
And this is opposed to … oh, whole countries (England, Sweden, Denmark, Switzerland, half of Germany …) that left the Church almost en masse before the NO was a glint in Paul VI’s eye
… but of course the Mass back then was perfect in every way, even though all those perfectly-catechised and oh-so-fervent Catholics, with all the self-evident spiritual and other benefits of your perfect abuse-free Latin Mass, left the Church in droves, in numbers that are comparable to what has happened since Vatican 2
If it was just one rogue parish, I would agree. Unfortunately, it is not. Far from it. It is just one that happened to make the news due to the invalidity of hundreds of baptisms done there over the years. As far as liturgical dance, I’ve seen them at the concluding masses. at just about every religious conference that I’ve ever been to. But, I have never brought the matter up as do many. I find other things more troubling, much more troubling as a matter of fact.One rogue parish makes a bad NO, of course. And necessarily a bad country as well.
And this is opposed to … oh, whole countries (England, Sweden, Denmark, Switzerland, half of Germany …) that left the Church almost en masse before the NO was a glint in Paul VI’s eye
… but of course the Mass back then was perfect in every way, even though all those perfectly-catechised and oh-so-fervent Catholics, with all the self-evident spiritual and other benefits of your perfect abuse-free Latin Mass, left the Church in droves, in numbers that are comparable to what has happened since Vatican 2
Yet those people were clearly outside the Church. They’ve manifested their error clearly.
Neither have you pointed out anything new about abuses in the NO. Which in its turn doesn’t surprise me either, thanks be to God.
Really? And what of all your reminiscing about how wonderful Latin was for a poor immigrant waif such as yourself? Would you class use of the vernacular as an abuse or a liberty then? Never mind that it’s permitted by the rubrics and documents promulgating the NO
No thanks. I’m sure they all came from somewhere, yes - problem is most of them you don’t know when they were taken. Some maybe not even where!Would you like a few more articles on other rogue parishes as you call them? Just for giggles. Or perhaps a few videos? Oh thats right though, the videos can’t be authenticated. At least you won’t accept them as being genuine. Oh well, they came from somewhere.
Uh huh. Tell that to parishioners in this St Mary’s parish palmas and I have just been discussing - they are in anything but good Catholic standing! On the contrary they’ve been publicly reprimanded and ordered to change their ways. Assuming they fail to do so, it’s a matter of a short time before their priests are excommunicated, if they haven’t been already. There’s no tolerance there of their desecration of the sanctuary of the Lord.
What about it? I spoke the truth. It was a unifying force. But then again, how would you know if it was or wasn’t? If your profile is correct, you weren’t even around in those days.Neither have you pointed out anything new about abuses in the NO. Which in its turn doesn’t surprise me either, thanks be to God.
St Mary’s in Brisbane is hardly news to anyone who pays attention to such things.
**Really? And what of all your reminiscing about how wonderful Latin was for a poor immigrant waif such as yourself? Would you class use of the vernacular as an abuse or a liberty then? Never mind that it’s permitted by the rubrics and documents promulgating the NO
No thanks. I’m sure they all came from somewhere, yes - problem is most of them you don’t know when they were taken. Some maybe not even where!
At least consider the possibility that a number of them are from occasions outside of the Mass, for example. In which case they probably wouldn’t be an abuse.