What was the most egregious liturgical abuse you ever witnessed?

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TheLittleLady said:
Actually each of them is a violation of the Rubrics.
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OK, but that does not mean they are “liturgical abuses.”

Using improper matter is a very serious liturgical abuse. Failing to use communion patens is not a liturgical abuse at all. It’s an irregularity. We need to be careful about these distinctions.
 
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Actually, the definition of abuse is to knowingly act in opposition to the Rubrics and Norms established by Rome and by the Council of Bishops.

Other things (hand holding, high five “and with your Spirit”) are annoyances but are not actual abuses.
 
TheLittleLady said:
Actually, the definition of abuse is to knowingly act in opposition to the Rubrics and Norms established by Rome and by the Council of Bishops.
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Oh? Where is that defined? I was always under the impression that an actual liturgical abuse was something that impinged upon the validity or licitness of the celebration of the Mass?
 
With respect, I do feel uncomfortable with this thread.

Some questions:
Is it spiritually helpful to point out our laundry list of liturgical errors in a forum thread?
Does it border on becoming some kind of liturgical gossip without achieving anything positive?
Does this thread achieve anything in helping to address the issues?
I felt this discomfort when I first saw the thread title, and I feel it no less now.
Exposing these abuses here on a forum thread may lead to correction of such abuses?
But will it, shall we actually do anything about the errors we see, based on our sharing of them?

Has the thread inspired anyone to actively begun seek, or intend to actively address in their parishes the issues as a result of their mention in the thread?
If the answer to these questions is no, how defensible is our sharing our laundry list of liturgical ‘sins’?

I respect all who have posted,
and I’m open to being corrected on these points.
 
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Trishie said:
Is it spiritually helpful to point out our laundry list of liturgical errors in a forum thread?
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Yes it does, at least to me. In a very positive way, actual liturgical abuses seem to be at (at least) a 20 year low in the different places where I attend the Mass. I’m curious if this is true for others and if the abuses they once endured (or possibly still endure?) are comparable to my own in severity?

I’m confident this thread will not only make me think, it will make me consider some things I would otherwise not have. Discussing delicate subjects need not be “trash fests” nor do they need to be overly controlled or condemned.
 
Duesenberg said:
Discussing delicate subjects need not be “trash fests” nor do they need to be overly controlled or condemned.
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Which is why I made no attempt against your thread, when i saw it in new topics, and read again just now.
Thank you for your assurances.
 
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When I was in either 7th or 8th grade at my Catholic school, we had to sing the Beatles’ “Imagine” and “Let it be” as Mass. The latter was used on a Marian feast day. It took me until high school to realize how inappropriate the song “Imagine,” even the truncated version they gave us, at Mass was. I wonder how it ever got green-lighted.
 
The bishop most certainly could have corrected those abuses and in fact should have. That they were religious of pontifical right means the bishop has no authority over their internal affairs. What they do during their private Masses, for example, is between them and their superior. On the other hand, when they celebrate public Masses for the faithful, the bishop definitely has a say. I assume it was still a parish of the local diocese…just one the bishop had entrusted to the religious community?
If it was their own convent or whatnot I take back the above.
 
Its not liturgical abuse, but the most irreverent thing I have witnessed at Mass is people forsaking the total glory of the sacrifice by being absorbed in grading conformance with the rubrics.
 
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twf said:
The bishop most certainly could have corrected those abuses and in fact should have. That they were religious of pontifical right means the bishop has no authority over their internal affairs.
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Pontifical right also extends to parishes which the exempt group founds. Which is why bishops may be very fine with exempt groups running diocesan parishes, but they are likely very selective when it comes to an exempt group founding something in their diocese.

In this case, the exempt group founded the parish in the 1800’s. Since then it’s become what we see today - so outside of asking them nicely, our bishop can’t do much except to inform laypeople that they shouldn’t attend.
 
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Ah. I’m more familiar with diocesan parishes entrusted to religious congregations. The congregation sends whom they will, but the bishop still confirms one of them as pastor.
 
Yeah, that’s usually how it works these days. My current parish is actually entrusted to a society of apostolic life, so I have been able to see it in action, which is neat!
 
Melchior_1 said:
Pontifical right also extends to parishes which the exempt group founds. Which is why bishops may be very fine with exempt groups running diocesan parishes, but they are likely very selective when it comes to an exempt group founding something in their diocese.
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What are some examples of Pontifical right orders or societies? Thanks.
 
Most of the ones that come to mind :P. If they’re not of pontifical right, they won’t exist outside of your local diocese.
 
The priest changed the words of consecration, saying, this is Jesus’ body for his friends. I was so horrified, I got an instant stomach ache and had to sit down. The worst part was that no one else seemed to even notice and went up for communion like zombies. I contacted the Archdiocese, and after that the priest had to carefully read the words during Mass. Then he was allowed to retire.
 
Duesenberg said:
What are some examples of Pontifical right orders or societies? Thanks.
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The “big five” are the main examples; Benedictines, Carmelites, Dominicans, Franciscans, and Jesuits. The FSSP is a Society of Apostolic Life with pontifical right.

As @twf said, groups with diocesan right don’t usually exist outside of the diocese, as they are still udner the bishop’s protection. There’s an exception to this though; the Companions of the Cross are still diocesan right, but have people in Detroit, Houston, and I believe Halifax - with Ottawa remaining their main base of operations.
 
Let us pray for our priests, that the Holy Spirit may assist and guide them always, and pray for each other, that we may in every circumstance (no matter what irregularities we perceive in our Church) always grow in faith, hope, and love.
 
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I can understand concern about “Imagine” as it specifically states “and no religion too”, even if that line was removed for the Mass. However, what exactly is wrong with “Let It Be”? I have always thought of that in Marian terms, though it seems likely Paul was thinking of his own mother who was named Mary and I believe was also Catholic.

Either the truncated “Imagine” or “Let It Be” would seem to me to be fine for a communion reflection, if nothing else. We used “Happy Christmas (War is Over)” for a Communion reflection at a school Mass after Lennon was shot. I arranged it myself with my best friend. Nobody complained.
 
Coming from a diocese that was quite progressive, I have seen my fair share of illicit behavior, and some abuses in the past that were usually rectified pretty quick, so long as the right people knew. Many of the parishes where these things would happen did not have membership that had the Bishop on “speed dial”.

That said, some of the worst abuses I have seen are those of the laity toward the hierarchy. People who ride their pastors with mundane and ridiculous demands, who publicly call their priests/Bishops with whom they don’t agree, heretics, spreading vicious and destructive lies about people, priests, sisters & Bishops, etc, etc, etc.

It’s a very sad state of affairs, and a perfect example of why young men & women shy away from the priesthood and religious life, at least IMHO.
 
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