What was the source of Mohammad's Revelations?

[Marria89]

The Prophet (peace and blessings upon him) said:

“Every Muslim has to give in charity”. The people asked, “O Allah’s Prophet! If someone has nothing to give, what will he do?” He said, “He should work with his hands and benefit himself and also give in charity (from what he earns).” The people further asked, “If he cannot find even that?” He replied, “He should help the needy who appeal for help.” Then the people asked, “If he cannot do that?” He replied, “Then he should perform good deeds and keep away from evil deeds and this will be regarded as charitable deeds.”

This Hadith was narrated by Abu Burda from his father from his grandfather in the “Al Jaami` Al Saheeh. Version 1.07 - By Imam Al Bukhari”
Report

 

[jakasaki]

And this is what Winston Churchill in 1899 said about Mohamad & islam

Winston Churchill On Islam

A quote from an 1899 book by Winston Churchill, “The River War”, in which he describes Muslims he apparently observed during Kitchener’s campaign in the Sudan

How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries!

Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy.

The effects are apparent in many countries. Improvident habits, slovenly systems of agriculture, sluggish methods of commerce, and insecurity of property exist wherever the followers of the Prophet rule or live.

A degraded sensualism deprives this life of its grace and refinement; the next of its dignity and sanctity.

The fact that in Mohammedan law every woman must belong to some man as his absolute property - either as a child, a wife, or a concubine - must delay the final extinction of slavery until the faith of Islam has ceased to be a great power among men.

Individual Moslems may show splendid qualities. Thousands become the brave and loyal soldiers of the Queen; all know how to die; but the influence of the religion paralyses the social development of those who follow it.

No stronger retrograde force exists in the world. Far from being moribund,

Mohammedanism is a militant and proselytizing faith.

It has already spread throughout Central Africa, raising fearless warriors at every step; and were it not that Christianity is sheltered in the strong arms of science - the science against which it had vainly struggled - the civilisation of modern Europe might fall, as fell the civilisation of ancient Rome.

 

[jakasaki]

snip

Also the jews asked him of many stories in their books that Quran revealed true stories with small details that are not in any book , and in new other stories that they were in desaccord (different opinions between them) and Quran answereed them the turth of the stories they were in debate about them
So how can He made up a truth that is not from any book,

Please provide islamic and non-islamic sources for your statements above.

Thanks!

 

[jakasaki]

Maria89:

Have you ever read the New Testament…? Just curious to know.

Thanks

 

[Marybeloved]

Mohamed could not read nor write ,so He couldnt copy anything from anywhere
Also the jews asked him of many stories in their books that Quran revealed true stories with small details that are not in any book , and in new other stories that they were in desaccord (different opinions between them) and Quran answereed them the turth of the stories they were in debate about them
So how can He made up a truth that is not from any book,

No one said anything about copying from a book. I said that those stories found in Christian Apocryphal writings and Jewish traditions were in wide circulation (that is, they were known) throughout Arabia. The stories themselves were known, so even an illiterate could create poetry about it if he wanted.

The only thing unique about Mohammed’s poetry is that his followers memorized it as he delivered it, thinking that they were the word of God and then later compiled them into a single volume.

 

[septimine]

I think he was actually trying to bring pagan arabs into the churches that existed at the time. I doubt the vision was of an angel because an angel would have been truthful, and further not have beaten him.

What’s weird about the origens of Islam is that so many times, Muhammad seems to indicate that Muslims should be learning from Christians. A demon wouldn’t want his followers to look at Christian scripture, as it would show the lie of Islam. But if Muhammad is preaching mangled Chrsitian thought (I personally see Pelegian and Nestorian heresies as a strong origen of Islamic thought). Now this makes sense IF we presume that Muhammed is getting his ideas of Christianity from heretics living in the deserts of Arabia. That seems to fit the actual doctrines of the Qu’ran much better than anything else – he’s a heretic Christian trying to found a church – including the roots of the Sunni/Shi’ia split – a hierarchy of leadership. Muhammad was founding a church in other words – a heretical church but a church.

So Muslims are heretical Christians after a fasion – not any different from any other sect that fell away from Christianity over the centuries.

 

[Trebor135]

Accusing Mohamed of epilepsy or deases or mental or demons, whatever doesnt affect him in any way, during his life ahe was also accused of many things but what they couldnt accuse him of is to lie as He was known before revelance 40 years known as the truthfull and the honest (these was his nicknames ) as he never said a lie or did an infidality ,even the jews put their goods in his house to save them
Lets see what did non muslims say about Mohamed :

It may be the case that Muhammad was highly esteemed and greatly trusted among his peers, but honesty and sincerity are not qualities that innoculate a person from falling for the deceit of a demon. What a Muslim defending their faith must do is to offer arguments for believing that the being that appeared to Muhammad was actually an angel.

 

[Marria89]

When i joined the forum , i initially had a background about catholics , people with politess , kindness , love of peace and respect ,
infortunatelly , i see people without any knowledge or evidence . Insulting our beliefs and our Prophet , misrespecting everybody…The hate is so deep , where are the words of love and peace?

I quit this thread since there is no respect for others’ beliefs , a lot of lies
Think what you want to think !!! But since it is not a disscussion with respect and peace
I dont want to follow anymore , my religion oblige me to respect others beliefs, and to disscuss gently, no matter if people have different views , the essential is to not offend others , good luck to all bye .
I just add note : the difference between belief and certitude is :
Belief = we listen to something and our heart accept it
Certitude =we see something and our heart accept it.
You can do any effort to make an atheist believe in angels you dont have any tools
Or to prouve to others that Mary was virgin ?? What can you bring if their hearts refuse it…
It is so simple to refuse others beliefs but what i was thinking is to share both our beliefs with deep thinking without Debate to just hold on what we say, To disscuss friendly,
we deal with love not with hate

 

[Sam_777]

Why is the form and structure of the language used in the ahadith so very different from that of the Qur’an?

Because Quran verses were planned, crafted, recited during the time of Muhammed, while ahadith were written after his death by a different cartel.

 

[Daralharb]

When i joined the forum , i initially had a background about catholics , people with politess , kindness , love of peace and respect ,
infortunatelly , i see people without any knowledge or evidence . Insulting our beliefs and our Prophet , misrespecting everybody…The hate is so deep , where are the words of love and peace?

I quit this thread since there is no respect for others’ beliefs , a lot of lies
Think what you want to think !!! But since it is not a disscussion with respect and peace
I dont want to follow anymore , my religion oblige me to respect others beliefs, and to disscuss gently, no matter if people have different views , the essential is to not offend others , good luck to all bye .
I just add note : the difference between belief and certitude is :
Belief = we listen to something and our heart accept it
Certitude =we see something and our heart accept it.
You can do any effort to make an atheist believe in angels you dont have any tools
Or to prouve to others that Mary was virgin ?? What can you bring if their hearts refuse it…
It is so simple to refuse others beliefs but what i was thinking is to share both our beliefs with deep thinking without Debate to just hold on what we say, To disscuss friendly,
we deal with love not with hate

Does discuss, to you, mean everyone agrees with you, or agrees to follow only your line of thought based on your conclusions, and somehow we must reconcile or give up our personal beliefs to do so?

Weird, I think that’s called Proselytizing, and you’ve now feigned victimhood which gives you the “right” to feel slighted and self-declaring how open Islam is because your assertions were challenged with classical Western methods of discourse.

East vs West.

Take it away, Johnny Cash!: youtube.com/watch?v=jvltsfcIBt8

Edit to add: Ok, Neil Young, you can play too: youtube.com/watch?v=7fXaC07X5M8

 

[GaryTaylor]

Basically what it comes down to.

 

[Sam_777]

When i joined the forum , i initially had a background about catholics , people with politess , kindness , love of peace and respect ,
infortunatelly , i see people without any knowledge or evidence . Insulting our beliefs and our Prophet , misrespecting everybody…The hate is so deep , where are the words of love and peace?

I quit this thread since there is no respect for others’ beliefs , a lot of lies
Think what you want to think !!! But since it is not a disscussion with respect and peace
I dont want to follow anymore , my religion oblige me to respect others beliefs, and to disscuss gently, no matter if people have different views , the essential is to not offend others , good luck to all bye .
I just add note : the difference between belief and certitude is :
Belief = we listen to something and our heart accept it
Certitude =we see something and our heart accept it.
You can do any effort to make an atheist believe in angels you dont have any tools
Or to prouve to others that Mary was virgin ?? What can you bring if their hearts refuse it…
It is so simple to refuse others beliefs but what i was thinking is to share both our beliefs with deep thinking without Debate to just hold on what we say, To disscuss friendly,
we deal with love not with hate

Hey Marria , cool down, you have just joined the forum…

Please start a new thread and ask one question at a time, to discus it from the Christian point of view and the Islamic one.

And it would be nice if you tell us your Islamic background (Sunni, Shia, etc) to know how detailed the answer should be…

 

[Ontheway]

When i joined the forum , i initially had a background about catholics , people with politess , kindness , love of peace and respect ,
infortunatelly , i see people without any knowledge or evidence . Insulting our beliefs and our Prophet , misrespecting everybody…The hate is so deep , where are the words of love and peace?

You can do any effort to make an atheist believe in angels you dont have any tools
Or to prouve to others that Mary was virgin ?? What can you bring if their hearts refuse it…
It is so simple to refuse others beliefs but what i was thinking is to share both our beliefs with deep thinking without Debate to just hold on what we say, To disscuss friendly,
we deal with love not with hate

Dear Maria,
You are a true believer. You have joined this forum to convert us to your faith. You are not interested in our view point. You simply want to convince us, very gently, to your way of believing. What comes as a shock to you is that we have an open debate here. As Catholics and Christians we use faith and resons (our mind) to gain discernment.

BTW. Memorizing and repeating verses from the koran, often without understanding them, is not what we are interested in.

 

[hamba2han]

Because Quran verses were planned, crafted, recited during the time of Muhammed, while ahadith were written after his death by a different cartel.

The ahadith are a record of the words and statements spoken by the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) as narrated by his Companions (may Allah be pleased with them) who obviously would have spoken the same form and style of language as he did some 1400 years ago.

Since every verse in the Qur’an as well as every sentence attributed to him as narrated by his Companions in the authentic ahadith came from the lips of the same man i.e. Prophet Muhammad (pbuh), then why should there be a huge difference in the form and structure of the language used in the ahadith as compared to that of the Qur’an?

 

[jakasaki]

The ahadith are a record of the words and statements spoken by the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) as narrated by his Companions (may Allah be pleased with them) who obviously would have spoken the same form and style of language as he did some 1400 years ago.

Since every verse in the Qur’an as well as every sentence attributed to him as narrated by his Companions in the authentic ahadith came from the lips of the same man i.e. Prophet Muhammad (pbuh), then why should there be a huge difference in the form and structure of the language used in the ahadith as compared to that of the Qur’an?

But the hadiths were gathered and written approximately 200 years after Mohamads death.

 

[hamba2han]

But the hadiths were gathered and written approximately 200 years after Mohamads death.

Although the ahadith were compiled approximately 200 years after his death, there exist nevertheless a fair number of texts and documents which recorded these utterances and statements of the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) and many of these were written by his Companions while he was still alive as can be seen in this link.

 

[KathleenGee]

This is a different Hamba…

Moslems who come on take one name, so you will see different styles of writing and thought.

 

[jakasaki]

This is a different Hamba…

Moslems who come on take one name, so you will see different styles of writing and thought.

Hi-ya there Kathleen.

Nope… this is the same old Hamba we’ve had on here. His style of writing and pattern has been consistent throughout his time on here…

I’m just saying!

 

[Marybeloved]

The ahadith are a record of the words and statements spoken by the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) as narrated by his Companions (may Allah be pleased with them) who obviously would have spoken the same form and style of language as he did some 1400 years ago.

Since every verse in the Qur’an as well as every sentence attributed to him as narrated by his Companions in the authentic ahadith came from the lips of the same man i.e. Prophet Muhammad (pbuh), then why should there be a huge difference in the form and structure of the language used in the ahadith as compared to that of the Qur’an?

I don’t get why that should mean anything at all. I mean, we don’t expect that Mohammed would be the ONLY human in Arabia (or the world, for that matter) who would go around conversing and speaking in poetry and formal, ritualist language in his daily life, do we? Ritual language (The language of prayer or words meant as scripture or designed to be “spoken” by God) is always formal- Just look at the Catholic and Orthodox liturgies . Doesn’t mean that they were not composed by humans, nor that the humans who composed them spoke that way as they went about their ordinary lives .

NO ONE, save some melodramatic person needing some serious therapy (and having zero skills or knowledge about human social life) would speak that way in their daily/ordinary lives. And no one speaks in poetic language in ordinary life (Or rhyme for that matter) .

The hadith are oral traditions recording eye-witness testimony by his followers, about Mohammed’s deeds and sayings as he went about his daily life. Honestly, WHY would he speak in a formal, ritualistic, poetic language/form in those instances of his ordinary life?- Or even as he preached? Why, on Earth, would he do that? Are you telling us to conclude that he was, afterall, truly insane?

 

[KathleenGee]

Hmmm…I remember the moon study, the science photos, etc…different use of language…Mohammed’s vision of the moon splitting apart, he fainting…and it was actually an eclipse.