What was the traditional Latin Mass like?

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The Novus Ordo, when done properly is a well done Mass (see the EWTN televised Mass)🙂 . It does not however hold a candle to the old rite:D . I say that for several reasons. The “options” that the celibrant has are troublesome. At least 4 Eucharisatic Prayers only one of which even comes close to matching the “Roman Canon”, doing away with or replacing the confiteor some of which is awfully lot like fuzzy feel good new ageism, the constant reinterpretation of the readings with “updated” Biblical renderings to have more “inclusive” language, the sign of peace which many churchs turn into a good old boy back slapping hugfest:o , the rearranged Agnus Dei. It goes on and on.

I realize that the Novus Ordo is not an invalid rite as many will claim and that there are many Priests and parishes that try oh so hard to have a dignified and beautiful mass. I am so fortunate to attend a Church that falls in that catagory. There are many that feel what I see as beauty in the old rite is what made (makes) the Catholic Church so limiting, or something (I do not pretend to understand). I suppose that in the interest of unity this is a valid issue, but I believe that more harm than good has come about because of the changes, well, not the changes but the flawed and inaccurate implementation of the changes. As I said, the EWTN Mass is quite beautiful (not as beautiful as the old rite) and if everyone had seen this mass from the original implementation of the Novus Ordo we would have little problems-but that’s not the way it occured, and there are other issues.
To answer what was the traditional Mass like is almost impossible, the people who have said it isn’t the same even with today’s approved indult mass are right. It was just a feeling, everyone was on the same page, a Catholic. If I went to Hong Kong, Japan, Nigeria, Germany or the Netherlands and went to Mass it was the same, period. Now, if I went to any of those places, I would have to struggle to keep up. Eveyone says that it was hard to follow the old Latin Mass. That dog won’t hunt:confused: . We were a universal church. I know, I know, we still are, ok, I suppose. Sure doesn’t look like it though:( . However, again, I am not saying that the Novus Ordo is not a valid rite, as I have said in other places the Holy Spirit (or the Holy Father) can’t let that happen, just impossible. However, just because it isn’t apostate doesn’t mean it is as right as it can be.
 
A&O:
Thanks for the suggestion Jim. Peggy said it is more proper to refer to both as the Mass, but Novus Ordo is the name for the current Mass as promulgated by Paul VI. Just as the Tridentine is the name for the Mass promulgated by Pius V.
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Thanks for checking. Looks like I was wrong again!
 
I was born right around the close of Vatican II, so I do not have any memory of the actual Tridentine Mass.

However, I have seen it done at an Indult parish, and I must say it is indeed a beautiful mass. But at the same time, I recall what Thomas Day said in his book, “Why Catholics Can’t Sing.” Essentially, people who wax nostalgic for the “old mass” tend to have very select memories. He remembers priests sloppily plowing through that mass, a few even taking pride in getting the mass down in under twenty minutes!

I grew up in the Archdiocese of Seattle, so believe me, I have seen it all (clowns, liturgical dancers, etc.). But I have also seen Novus Ordo done in the most beautiful way possible (at a Benedictine Abbey). In the end, it all comes down to how you do it and what you put into it.
 
It is a nice link…but it may upset some people, because this particular Mass is done by the SSPX.
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gelsbern:
I finally found the link I had hidden deep.

Here is a TLM you can actually watch. It’s long, about an hour, but you can see what it’s like.

janghang.hs.kr/sanctamissa.wmv
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dumspirospero:
It is a nice link…but it may upset some people, because this particular Mass is done by the SSPX.
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Well I looked and looked for one that was FSSP but for some reason the SSPX is the only one’s who put it on the web. It’s still a valid mass with valid sacraments just illicit.
 
We attend an indult Tridentine Mass every so often, and enjoy the benefit of private confessions before each Mass.
 
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Stiles:
We attend an indult Tridentine Mass every so often, and enjoy the benefit of private confessions before each Mass.
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Which of course is not a benefit of the Tridentine Mass. Many parishes provide confessions before Mass.
 
There’s a website with multiple video clips of Bishop Rifan celebrating Mass somewhere.
 
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EddieArent:
There’s a website with multiple video clips of Bishop Rifan celebrating Mass somewhere.
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Heheh, I think the effective word is “somewhere” 😃 . The first time I found the clip I gave was after about 3 hours trying to find an online video of theTLM. If anyone else has a better link let me know.
 
🙂 The New Mass is not the same. Here are 7 specific deviations from Catholic doctrine and practice. 1. Defining the Mass not as the holy sacrifice but as a gathering of the people.
  1. The elimination of any references in the Mass to the aspect of the sacrifice as propitiatory.
  2. The reduction of the priest’s role to that of something closer to a Protestant minister.
  3. Phrases in the Mass that implicitly deny the Real Presence of Jesus in the Eucharist. Such as, after the consecration calling the Eucharist “bread and wine.”
  4. The change of the Consecration from the central action of the Mass to just a part of a narrative story of the Last Supper.
  5. A loss of unity and continuity by giving numerous options in prayers and rites.
  6. Replacing clear expressions of Catholic doctrine with ambiguous and vague language throughout the rite.
These of course are not all of the criticisms, but they are sufficient to point out the severe problems inherent in the new Mass.
 
countrylily said:
🙂 The New Mass is not the same. Here are 7 specific deviations from Catholic doctrine and practice. 1. Defining the Mass not as the holy sacrifice but as a gathering of the people.
  1. The elimination of any references in the Mass to the aspect of the sacrifice as propitiatory.
  2. The reduction of the priest’s role to that of something closer to a Protestant minister.
  3. Phrases in the Mass that implicitly deny the Real Presence of Jesus in the Eucharist. Such as, after the consecration calling the Eucharist “bread and wine.”
  4. The change of the Consecration from the central action of the Mass to just a part of a narrative story of the Last Supper.
  5. A loss of unity and continuity by giving numerous options in prayers and rites.
  6. Replacing clear expressions of Catholic doctrine with ambiguous and vague language throughout the rite.
These of course are not all of the criticisms, but they are sufficient to point out the severe problems inherent in the new Mass.
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Lily, what Catholic Church are you attending? Doesn’t sound like any where I have attended Mass in over 40 years. You have only a partial picture of almost every thing I have seen and heard about the Mass over that time. I suppose the wine used in your parish for the consecration is pressed from sour grapes too.
 
I am 65 years old, and I still have fond memories of my days as altar during the pre-vastican 2 era. As far as latin vs. english in the Mass, I think the english wins hands down. But I do miss the tridentine High Mass at Christmas and Easter. It was beautiful! But I did attend a Neophyte Mass for my stepson at the cathedral a few weeks ago, and I believe it was the most beautiful Mass I’ve seen in my entire life. I just can’t describe it.
 
Having grown up with the Tridentine rite, I remember the Mass quite well. I loved the structure of the Mass and the prayers, but it was often hard to participate.

I had a missal, and would try to follow along diligently from the prayers at the foot of the altar all the way to the end. But since the priest mostly read the Mass in a low voice, it was not always easy to tell where he was or to keep up with him.
 
countrylily said:
🙂 The New Mass is not the same. Here are 7 specific deviations from Catholic doctrine and practice.

These of course are not all of the criticisms, but they are sufficient to point out the severe problems inherent in the new Mass.
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Obviously a list snipped from some web site. Did you really go to the trouble of registering here just to post someone else’s rant?
 
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chicago:
A relative of mine says that at St. John Cansius they actually don’t do everything like it used to be done back in the day. Further, the experience of the old Mass in contemporary times isn’t qute the same thing as having experienced it as a norm. I don’t necessarily agree, then, that the best way to understand what the experience was is to see what it is like at present.
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You may well be right. I never attended a Tridentine Mass in the old days. I do appreciate the present expression of the high mass, however.

Dan L
 
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JimG:
I’m sure many will disagree with me. But the Tridentine Mass was pretty much the same as the current Mass using only the First Eucharistic Prayer (that’s the only one it had), and said in Latin.

In addition, before the beginning of the Mass, there were some “prayers at the foot of the altar,” recited by the priest and altar boys. And at the end of the Mass, just before the final blessing, there was a second Gospel reading–always the same one–from the beginning of the Gospel of John (“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God…”)

(The current Mass, by the way, is NOT called the “Novus Ordo.”)
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The Latin mass is entirely different from the Novus Ordo. The main aspect and thrust is Theocentricity. (God centered) The last Gospel of St.John is read immediately AFTER the last blessing. not before. The current Mass is Called "Novus Ordo Missae) New Order of Mass.

Et Lux in Tenebris Lucet, et tenebrae eam non comprehenderunt
 
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Kielbasi:
The people kept totally quiet and prayed, while the priest said the mass and the altar boys alone made the responses for everyone.

There was no long readings (or short responses for that matter) for the people to vocalize, no creed to read , no our father to read, no gloria to read. Those parts of the mass were said, but only by the priest and servers.
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This is exactly the point that many traditionalist miss.

They say they want to return to the TLM that was codified with Trent but they miss the fact that the TLM as done today has been modified to allow the laity to fully participate.

The original TLM was said for the people by the priest with those who assist. That is the deacon, the sub-deacon, and the acolytes (altar servers). You were expected to come to Mass and say your own devotions, such as the rosary. This is why the bells were rung during the Liturgy, to tell everyone that something was happening that they should pay attention to. This is something I find odd with the ringing of the bells during a Mass that is done in the vernacular.
 
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ByzCath:
They say they want to return to the TLM that was codified with Trent but they miss the fact that the TLM as done today has been modified to allow the laity to fully participate.
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This is only the case with laity confusing the mode of participation in the Novus Ordo with that in the TLM. The congregation, even today, are not supposed to respond at a Low Mass. A sung Low Mass is a different story, as is the High Mass.

That’s why, many times, the Priest will make a brief announcement before the homily about a particular aspect that isn’t being carried out correctly by the laity (e.g. do not say “Amen” before receiving at the altar rail).

DD
 
Lux in Tenebris:
The Latin mass is entirely different from the Novus Ordo. The main aspect and thrust is Theocentricity. (God centered) The last Gospel of St.John is read immediately AFTER the last blessing. not before. The current Mass is Called "Novus Ordo Missae) New Order of Mass.
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You are right–the Last Gospel after the final blessing. It’s been a long time since I’ve been to a Tridentine Mass. And the current Mass is called the Novus Ordo Missae. But it’s still the Mass.

But “entirely different?” Did you see John Paul II’s funeral Mass and Benedict XVI’s installation Mass? Were they really entirely different from the Tridentine?
 
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