What was the "true church" of the Old Testament?

[Nicene]

BEAUTIFUL is our Lord God that he now gives us a commandment, a commandment that if we live in his spirit, all others are fullfilled.

No, if we break the other commandments we break the law of love. What love of God is there in breaking his commandments? If we truly love him we keep them, yet when a brother transgresses as James says we forgive when they ask for forgiveness. That is love.

If we actually live in his spirit we keep his commandments. Jn 14:15 "If you love me, you will keep my commandments.

If we violate or plot out against the law, we are in no way living in Jesus’s spirit.

This includes the sabbath rest. Gods commandment, not Moses. Christ does not contradict his Father. He reaffirms it.

IT IS impossible NOT to be saved if we live in Jesus,

Jesus says if we love him we will keep his commands, does he not? Does this include confessing as James says? Does Christ mention this same thing anywhere? Does he give the apostles the power to do so? Does this also not include the sabbath which God made for man?

By hearing his word and believing in him,

What does it mean to believe in him?

being baptized and teach others his teachings that are written in the gospels

Agreed.

we are now the “WHOSOEVERS!” Jesus spoke of in John 3:16!! THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN IS AT HAND!

Lets see what it says:

For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him might not perish but mighthave eternal life.

Notice the word might in there, any reason those are always glossed over or resphrased in modern versions so as to omit them. They are in the original greek. One sounds like a guarantee, the other does not. The original greek, latin, and the churches teaching as such from the apostles teaches might.

“THY KINGDOM COME, THY WILL BE DONE”!

And this is how you should pray as well. Not according to my will Lord, but let your will be done.

Jesus gave us the ultimate sacrifice by his cross and resurrection, he has called us out of bondage. No more burnt offerings or taking your sacrifices to priests in temples.

Ok tough question here. How did Christs sacrifice on the cross 2000 years ago expiate the sins you committed today and have not yet committed tomarrow and the next day? How is Christs blood applied to sins you haven’t yet committed?

He gave us in rememberence of him,

Yes, this is the Mass.

the breaking of the bread and drinking of the wine, his spirital body and blood, which in perfect harmony with each other and in him we eat, yes we eat and nash his body and drink his blood.

There is no spiritual blood and body, it truly is His body, blood, soul and Divinity.

He is everlasting life. We receive and give all that is good and holy to our High Priest of the Church, Jesus Christ.

No disagreement there.

But yet today, we seem to think we cannot go to worship before or after sunrise and sundown on Saturday, and there are holy days of obligation. EVERY day is a holy day.

Actually that would be sunday, the 8th day. The day of resurrection. And there are Holy Days of obligation. Every church from the beginning celebrated the day of Christs resurrection for example. Did you ever notice the feast days which Jesus attended in the gospel of John. Which one was the greatest one he attended?

Do you know what the liturgy of the Hours is? If not why not. The apostles and Christ practiced it (so did the Jews) it’s in Eph 5:19, Acts 10:9 (the sixth hour), John and Peter Acts 3:1 (the ninth hour) Acts 16:25 (midnight). It’s everyday prayer that was practiced then and now.

Cont…

Peace and God Bless
Nicene

 

[Nicene]

When a church gets together to worship at any one time, it is out of the greatest commandment of our Lord and God, love. Not the 4th commandent.

It’s the 3rd commandment and they are all linked through the law of love, that is why love fulfils them.

1900+ thousand years of mans religious doctrine and philosophy has tickled our ears to believe that there are so many more ways to reach Jesus in heaven.

I assume you mean 2000 years, unless you wish to contradict James above and Paul in Corinthians.

WHY DO WE STILL THINK THIS IS SO HARD TO FIGURE OUT!

Apparently some of it is. Let me ask you a couple of questions.

The bible you hold in your hands, where does it come from?
In what year did you church close the canon? (Please supply sources)
Why didn’t your church choose the other manuscripts that were available at the time of the early church? The Shepherd of Hermas for example, the Epistles of Clement and Barnabas, The Gospel of Peter etc. (Sources again please)
By what authority have you interpreted it?
Can you show your authoritative interpretation throughout the centuries? (Sources again please)

Peace and God Bless
Nicene

 

[NotWorthy]

malachi_a_serva:

My confussion, apparently there were allot of different Jewish denominations; Scribes, Saducees, Essenes, and Pharisees to name a few.

But not “one”. Why would their need to be “one” now?

Maybe the parties didn’t come about until after God went silent. I mean, after the last prophet of the OT and before John the Baptist. Without the Holy Spirit to guide them, we were left with only humans to mess things up. (I’m not sure of this, maybe someone can verify it?)

Why would there need to be one now? Because Christ left a Church.

Notworthy

 

[Nicene]

1Christ1Church:

We all know that we can worship God 24/7. And like Jesus said in Matthew 6:6 we dont have to go ALONE into a temple or building to worship him. We do it alone and in secret. It is when TOGETHER we go into a structure or building to worship God it is a holy place. Read Acts 17:24-31.

Correct and Incorrect. Christ dwells in the body of believers. However The bread of life is truly Christ. The together or alone part you added to scripture. Nowhere does Christ say this about the sabbath. He does say against the what the pharisees do who go to pray in the temple daily (Liturgy of the Hours) and do it to be seen. However Jesus says this can be done in private then goes on with the Lords prayer, which is now incorperated into the LoTH.

God gives us the opportunity to go and worship 24/7! Together or alone!

Whether you recognize it or not, that has always been the case, even before Christ. But you seem to be melding this with the sabbath for some reason.

Peace and God Bless
Nicene

 

[Nicene]

Brother, if St, Paul said God does not dwell in buildings anymore, how can God be contained in a box then?

And yet Paul says: * Whoever, therefore, eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of profaning the body and blood of the Lord.*

So as Christ is truly present in the bread and wine, what happens to the bread and wine after it is consecrated? Do we throw Christ in the trash? If just eating and drinking unworthily prafane Christ how much more so if we toss him in the garbage that has not been consumed by the congregation? Should we not put it in a holy place worthy of our Lord?

As far as Christian History, stick to your plow brother, and dont look back. The Gospels of Jesus foreshadows persecution of us. The greatest form of persecution is happing inside our Church, the Fellowship of the Believers, today.

Remember Luke 12:49-53, he speaks of divisions.

The division Christ is speaking about in Luke is pertaining to the Jews and it certainly did happen.

All sects(the divisons sadden me) of Christianity should be working on what went wrong to separate us. That would be looking back into Christian history, but Jesus knew that we could never do that with the right intentions.

Actually Christ knew this would happen, and we can read in the episltes the early rumblings of it. It resurfaced again in the 1600 on a massive scale, but minor sects happened throughout history. Christ predicted this. Read both parables of the sowers.

All we can see is pride, lineage, and number stats of every kind when we look back to prove us right. He is telling me to look forward, when I see a need, I meet the need, I give back to God through Jesus by giving out to others what he has giving me.

I applaud your efforts and we do the same all the time to heal those breaches, for example with the EO, and with the Lutherans joint declaration on justification, and currently the SSPX. However it isn’t pride that or a sence of “I’m right” keeps catholics from getting all fuzzy with doctrines that are in error but a sense of duty in the humblest way. Protect what Christ and the apostles handed on at all costs, it’s salvation for the world. If we give that up we betray Christ in favor of man made doctrine.

Think of it this way. The Mormons and Jehovah Witnesses are 18th century splits from “orthodox” protestantism. Should we bend doctrine to include their beliefs as well? Accept ourselves as Gods? Or Michael the archangel was Jesus but not God? There are times when truth musty be upheld at all costs. The deposit of faith is too important.

The Word of God is eternal and timeless. His teachings in the Gospels and the foundation of the Church in Acts are all inclusive of Heaven.

Cont.

Peace and God Bless
Nicene

 

[Nicene]

Christ established a church which would be guided by the Holy Spirit. Jn 16:12 "I have yet many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. 13: When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.

*Mt 18:14So it is not the will of my Father who is in heaven that one of these little ones should perish.15: "If your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault, between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother.16: But if he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, that every word may be confirmed by the evidence of two or three witnesses.**17: If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector.***18: Truly, I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

You are correct, it was pride (and I suspect Satan whispering in peoples ears over the centuries) that caused those divisions from the church. However they did not do as Jesus instructed in the bolded above. They didn’t listen to the church. So how were they treated after not listening to the church?

Timothy tells us that the church is the Pillar and foundation of truth Christ tells us to take disagreements to the church, not to sacred scripture because he left the church in charge. He even prayed that they would be one:

John 17:20 "I do not pray for these only, but also for those who believe in me through their word, 21: that they may all be one; even as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be in us, so that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

So the question is, did God answer Jesus prayer or not? Giving a no answer has some serious theological condequences.

Christ promised to guide the church til the end of time, either he is doing it or not.

Mt 28:20 teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, to the close of the age."

For what it is worth you are in agreement with the Church in healing the breaches and I applaud you for your efforts. However we can’t abandon truth just tio be nice and cozy, it is much more serious than that.

Peace and God Bless
Nicene

 

[kleary]

1Christ1Church:

Brother, if St, Paul said God does not dwell in buildings anymore, how can God be contained in a box then?

St. Paul does not say “God does not dwell in buildings anymore”. You mistake this with the teaching that God is not limited to be in a building only. It teaches of God’s omnipresence.

According to you “God” cannot be contained in a human being - like Jesus Christ. How can it be that you believe God can become a baby boy, exist and be contained in that baby boy, yet you fail to believe he becomes a piece of bread? Even when St. Paul tells you otherwise? That if you receive Holy Communion unworthilly without recognizing it is the actual Body and Blood of the Lord that you are guilty of desecrating the Body and Blood of the Lord???

Your denial of the Real Presence is ANTI CHRISTIAN. All of Christianity is against you for the first 1500 years! Even the Apostles held the Catholic belief bro! This is a proven fact of history!

Yet you think they got it all wrong now don’t you? St. Paul was wrong when he told us what he did- 1 Cor 11: 27?

Why don’t you believe the very Scriptures you claim are infallible? Your only source of Divine Revelation?

They lie?

The Apostles lied?

Oh… I get it… they also believed the world was flat…

Lame excuse.

Ken