What was this bread-cube communion?

[Eliza10]

My friend recently went to a communion at a [edited] Church which was a church within their “cluster” (our diocese puts your church in a cluster with 3 or 4 designated other chruches) with her family faith-formation class. She and her family sat with the class.

They recieved communion from the woman pastorial administrator from that chruch. This is a woman dressed in a white liturgical-type gown who speaks first and last at Mass, like the cental figure in charge at the Mass (as if the priest is an assistant). When my friend recived communion from her she was shocked to open her mouth and recieve a cube of bread for communion! Her children were surprised, too, and one said, “That bread tasted funny.” She did not tell her child that bread was Jesus, because she didn’t know!

She noticed that the others, not in her group, recieving from a nun, were recieving regular communion wafer Eucharists. My freind asked me, “What did I recieve - bread or Jesus?”

Does anyone know?

She would like to complain to someone, but doesn’t know what to do/say.

 

[SarahR]

I don’t know in that particular situation. But I have been to a convent once and they served both traditional wafers and a form of cubed bread.

 

[dans0622]

When my friend recived communion from her she was shocked to open her mouth and recieve a cube of bread for communion! Her children were surprised, too, and one said, “That bread tasted funny.” She did not tell her child that bread was Jesus, because she didn’t know!

My freind asked me, “What did I recieve - bread or Jesus?”

Does anyone know?

She would like to complain to someone, but doesn’t know what to do/say.

Hi Eliza10,

Can’t say for sure what happened there. The Eucharist, necessarily, has to taste pretty plain. I guess you didn’t receive this “cube” so you don’t know what it tasted like? Anyway, messing around with the bread used at Mass is very disturbing but until you or your friend can know for sure that it was invalid matter, I don’t think there is anything she can say to anyone, in terms of a “complaint.”

Years ago, I used to help make communion bread that was more “substantial.” It was perfectly valid–just water and wheat flour–but it was about 3/8 of an inch think and cut into a cube-like shape. Maybe, hopefully, that is what happened here.

Dan

 

[FrDavid96]

My friend recently went to a communion at a St.Mary’s Church which was a church within their “cluster” (our diocese puts your church in a cluster with 3 or 4 designated other chruches) with her family faith-formation class. She and her family sat with the class.

They recieved communion from the woman pastorial administrator from that chruch. This is a woman dressed in a white liturgical-type gown who speaks first and last at Mass, like the cental figure in charge at the Mass (as if the priest is an assistant). When my friend recived communion from her she was shocked to open her mouth and recieve a cube of bread for communion! Her children were surprised, too, and one said, “That bread tasted funny.” She did not tell her child that bread was Jesus, because she didn’t know!

She noticed that the others, not in her group, recieving from a nun, were recieving regular communion wafer Eucharists. My freind asked me, “What did I recieve - bread or Jesus?”

Does anyone know?

She would like to complain to someone, but doesn’t know what to do/say.

As long as the bread itself was baked from pure wheat flour and water, unleavened, with nothing added to it, it’s both valid and licit matter. There’s no problem at all with that (at least, no problem with the bread part). Bread for the Eucharist may come in different shapes and forms other than the typical wafers.

On the other hand, if it was something else, there was a problem.

 

[RitaM]

Maybe this is the deal. I used to go to a Russian Orthodox Church. If you were not receiving communion, there was a bowl or plate of bread cubes to take one on the way out. It was not consecrated, but a way to share in a level of community if you were either not disposed to receive the Eucharist (most people didn’t on a weekly basis there) or if you were not in full communion with the Orthodox Church. Nevertheless, this is not our practice as Latin Rite Roman Catholics. Our bread is supposed to be unleavened in any case.

 

[Eliza10]

As long as the bread itself was baked from pure wheat flour and water, unleavened, with nothing added to it, it’s both valid and licit matter. There’s no problem at all with that (at least, no problem with the bread part). Bread for the Eucharist may come in different shapes and forms other than the typical wafers.

On the other hand, if it was something else, there was a problem.

It was wheat, brown, spongy, bready - like bread from the store. If it was unleavened, shouldn’t it* not* be spongy and airy like risen bread??

If it was store-bread, as it seemed to be, who should she go to to complain? She only gets communion one day a week, and feels she may have missed it last week!

 

[FrDavid96]

It was wheat, brown, spongy, bready - like bread from the store. If it was unleavened, shouldn’t it* not* be spongy and airy like risen bread??

If it was store-bread, as it seemed to be, who should she go to to complain? She only gets communion one day a week, and feels she may have missed it last week!

Eliza,

So long as it was true wheat bread (leavened or unleavened) it was valid matter. If it was indeed leavened, then it was valid but illicit. Valid means that it was truly the Body of Christ. Licit means that it was done according to the rule of law. I’m not at all trying to defend the practice, merely saying that an illicit act might still be valid, although it might be a very serious offense.

Use of some other form of bread calls the validity into question. It might be valid, it might not. That’s what happens when something is added to it. Let’s say for example, that the flour is 99% wheat, and 1% barley, or a small amount of sugar or salt is added. I think that might still be valid matter, but the point is that the validity is questionable–we never know with certainty unless it is pure wheat flour, and therefore we should never take the chance that it might not be. I can’t stress that point enough. We never take the chance.

It might be possible to have an unleavened bread that is somewhat “spongy” (I say might be possible). All we can say here is to explain what the Church says about valid and licit matter. It’s impossible for any of us to know what kind of bread it was based on written descriptions (unless you have the recipe, which does not seem to be the case, since you posed the question).

Obviously, you have some concerns. Please talk to the pastor. My hope is that he will explain to you what kind of bread it was, and explain to you that while it may seem unusual, it was still valid and licit matter. I certainly hope that is the case.

 

[johnnykins]

ROCHESTER!!! I’d bet body parts it’s bread with leaven and honey.

 

[johnnykins]

It was wheat, brown, spongy, bready - like bread from the store. If it was unleavened, shouldn’t it* not* be spongy and airy like risen bread??

If it was store-bread, as it seemed to be, who should she go to to complain? She only gets communion one day a week, and feels she may have missed it last week!

1. Go to the priest, then
2. Go to the administrator - If you don’t get a clean and consistent answer from both - you have a real problem. Ask to see the breasd in its packaging. Look for ingredients. If it’s illicit (anything other than wheat flour and water) point it out.
   3.If they won’t show you the packagaing, give a consistent answer or actually use illicit (or worse invalid) matter write to the Bishop.
   4.Since it’s Rochester - Good luck, so copy the Nuncio.

 

[Aramis]

If this was indeed a communion service, and in Rochester NY, it is quite likely the parish realized they were running low on reserved Eucharist and got the closest priest to provide the presanctified gifts. If that priest was Ukrainian or Melkite, those would in fact be about 1cc cubes of leavened bread, and indeed validly and probably licitly confected.

 

[benedictgal]

1. Go to the priest, then
2. Go to the administrator - If you don’t get a clean and consistent answer from both - you have a real problem. Ask to see the breasd in its packaging. Look for ingredients. If it’s illicit (anything other than wheat flour and water) point it out.
   3.If they won’t show you the packagaing, give a consistent answer or actually use illicit (or worse invalid) matter write to the Bishop.
   4.Since it’s Rochester - Good luck, so copy the Nuncio.

Actually, writing the Nuncio does’t help. Your letter should be sent to the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments.

Here is what Redemptionis Sacramentum says about the Eucharistic bread:

48.] The bread used in the celebration of the Most Holy Eucharistic Sacrifice must be unleavened, purely of wheat, and recently made so that there is no danger of decomposition.123 It follows therefore that bread made from another substance, even if it is grain, or if it is mixed with another substance different from wheat to such an extent that it would not commonly be considered wheat bread, does not constitute valid matter for confecting the Sacrifice and the Eucharistic Sacrament.124 It is a grave abuse to introduce other substances, such as fruit or sugar or honey, into the bread for confecting the Eucharist. Hosts should obviously be made by those who are not only distinguished by their integrity, but also skilled in making them and furnished with suitable tools.125

[49.] By reason of the sign, it is appropriate that at least some parts of the Eucharistic Bread coming from the fraction should be distributed to at least some of the faithful in Communion. “Small hosts are, however, in no way ruled out when the number of those receiving Holy Communion or other pastoral needs require it”,126 and indeed small hosts requiring no further fraction ought customarily to be used for the most part.

Even though the reasonings presented by others might very well be plausible, tihs would be the documentation that you would need to verify the validity of the matter. I hope this helps.

 

[Brendan]

. Let’s say for example, that the flour is 99% wheat, and 1% barley, or a small amount of sugar or salt is added. I think that might still be valid matter, but the point is that the validity is questionable–we never know with certainty unless it is pure wheat flour, and therefore we should never take the chance that it might not be. I can’t stress that point enough. We never take the chance…

Exactly right Father.

If additives are involved, we can not be sure that it really is the Body of Christ.

The best we can say when the priest holds it up and says “Body of Christ” is “uuuh…Maybe?”

 

[Brendan]

Maybe this is the deal. I used to go to a Russian Orthodox Church. If you were not receiving communion, there was a bowl or plate of bread cubes to take one on the way out. It was not consecrated,…

That is called Antidoron. It is blessed and is a Sacramental related to the Eucharist in the same way that Holy Water is related to Baptism