What was used before the CCC

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PattyPryor

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I am 31 years old and when the CCC was starting to be used I was still like 11 or so. So, I was just was wondering what was used before that. A non-catholic said the CCC is too new to be used to defend the faith.
 
The Baltimore Catechism. It was in different levels depending on the person’s age (it was taught to children pretty young, unlike today). It was designed in easy Q&A style and children learned it through repetition and had to memorize it. You can still find PDF versions online, which I find more helpful than the CCC. The CCC was originally designed to be used by people such as bishops, etc and not the laity so much.
 
PattyPryor said:
I am 31 years old and when the CCC was starting to be used I was still like 11 or so. So, I was just was wondering what was used before that.
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The first catechism we know of is the Didache, writen somewhere between 40 and 60 AD, maybe a little later but definitely first century. There have been many catechisms since, commissioned by local bishops, bishop’s conferences, or by the magesterium or pope. Others are written by theologians and priests for educating the faithful.

A catechism is simply a book that gives instruction on the faith. There have been numerous catechisms summarizing the faith over the centuries. The catechism of Trent, the Baltimore catechism, etc.

The catechism commissioned by John Paul II, which came out in the early 1990s in English (originally written in French) is a document primarily for the bishops around the world from which they were to develop their own teaching catechisms. So, for example the USCCB produced the US Catholilc Catechism for Adults. Other bishops’ conferences in other countries produce their own catechisms. The baltimore catechism was produced by the US bishops after a conference in Baltimore in 1885, and was used extensively in the US for many years and is still in use in some places.

Catechisms are not unique to Catholicism, Luther wrote several after he spllit from the Church that are still used today in th Lutheran church.
PattyPryor said:
A non-catholic said the CCC is too new to be used to defend the faith.
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Well, that is rather a silly argument. What does he base such a position on?
 
PattyPryor said:
I figured the Baltimore Catechism Thanks 🙂
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Remember though that the Baltimore Catechism was only ever approved for use in the US.

I’m surprised no one got to this yet (given this is the Traditional forum), but the universal catechism before the CCC was the Roman Catechism of the Council of Trent. The sections of the CCC was actually modelled after those of the Roman Catechism.
 
PattyPryor said:
I am 31 years old and when the CCC was starting to be used I was still like 11 or so. So, I was just was wondering what was used before that. A non-catholic said the CCC is too new to be used to defend the faith.
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The Baltimore Catechism was the most widely used in the USA, probably followed by the Roman Catechism.

I find the CCC a very tedious publication for teaching the faith. It was intended, as I understand it, to be a base-line “lesson plan” sort of document for catechists and as a source publication for other more specialized catechisms. Unfortunately, catechesis remains largely in the dumpster and specialized catechisms haven’t really gained much popularity at parish level as far as I know. The CCC is of course a good publication, but it seems to be practically written for theologians in its style.

Whatever your non-Catholic example said is silly and it makes no sense.
 
curlycool89 said:
Remember though that the Baltimore Catechism was only ever approved for use in the US.

I’m surprised no one got to this yet (given this is the Traditional forum), but the universal catechism before the CCC was the Roman Catechism of the Council of Trent. The sections of the CCC was actually modelled after those of the Roman Catechism.
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That’s not to say it wasn’t used elsewhere. My parents learned from it in school and we’re from Canada. I had to learn from the CCC when I was in grade 9. It didn’t make any sense to me, and now I know why.
 
Rainaldo said:
I’m glad I’m not the only one. What is it about the book that makes it such a painful read?
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It’s certainly heavy reading, for a variety of reasons:
  1. Most of us, who are reading it in English, are essentially reading a translation of a translation. If my memory serves me well, the CCC was drafted in French, translated into a final Latin version (the official Church language), and then went through two English translations (the first was rejected due to inaccuracies and “inclusive language”, if I’m not mistaken). Given this process, it’s natural to find some infelicities in language, or some awkward constructions that certainly would’ve read better in Latin or French.
  2. Though available to all, the foreword makes it clear that it was meant mainly for the Bishops and clergy, as an authoritative “source text” (sort of like the heavy psychiatry textbooks I had to study to get my MD :D) which could then form the basis of simpler texts. If you compare the language to other authoritative Church documents - such as, say, a Papal encyclical - you’ll find a lot of similarities in style.
In other words, it wasn’t meant to be a direct teaching tool, but more of a source-book (like, say, Denzinger or the later “The Christian Faith”) from which age-appropriate texts could be constructed. Of late, we’ve had some of these come on the market - such as the Compendium and YouCat - which are much easier to read.

That said, I’ve always found it an invaluable reference. But I must confess that of the two books at my bedside (a Bible and the CCC), I invariably find the former lighter reading. 😉
 
RPRPsych said:
  1. Though available to all, the foreword makes it clear that it was meant mainly for the Bishops and clergy, as an authoritative “source text” (sort of like the heavy psychiatry textbooks I had to study to get my MD :D) which could then form the basis of simpler texts. If you compare the language to other authoritative Church documents - such as, say, a Papal encyclical - you’ll find a lot of similarities in style.
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Funny you should remind us of that … some years ago I actually had a [liberal] Catholic retort to me, when I disproved an erroneous thesis of hers from the Catechism, that the Catechism was addressed to Bishops, not laypeople.
 
1ke said:
The first catechism we know of is the Didache, writen somewhere between 40 and 60 AD, maybe a little later but definitely first century. There have been many catechisms since, commissioned by local bishops, bishop’s conferences, or by the magesterium or pope. Others are written by theologians and priests for educating the faithful.

A catechism is simply a book that gives instruction on the faith. There have been numerous catechisms summarizing the faith over the centuries. The catechism of Trent, the Baltimore catechism, etc.

The catechism commissioned by John Paul II, which came out in the early 1990s in English (originally written in French) is a document primarily for the bishops around the world from which they were to develop their own teaching catechisms. So, for example the USCCB produced the US Catholilc Catechism for Adults. Other bishops’ conferences in other countries produce their own catechisms. The baltimore catechism was produced by the US bishops after a conference in Baltimore in 1885, and was used extensively in the US for many years and is still in use in some places.

Catechisms are not unique to Catholicism, Luther wrote several after he spllit from the Church that are still used today in th Lutheran church.

Well, that is rather a silly argument. What does he base such a position on?
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Great post. I just wanted to add that when I was a child,** the Baltimore Catechism** was the catechism. Throughout most of the '60’s and 70’s catechisms written by various authors were used in preparation for the sacraments. Eventually, the catechism written by Donald W. Wuerl, (now Cardinal Wuerl) The Teaching of Christ: A Catholic Catechism for **Adults **was primarily used up to just before the printing of The Catechism of the Catholic Church that is used today.
 
Also, we have the Catechism of Saint Pius X, and in Spanish speaking countries, the “CATECISMO de la DOCTRINA CRISTIANA” (Catechism of Christian Doctrine) by Father Gaspar de Astete S.J. was very popular. Another popular Catechism, was the “Catecismo y exposición breve de la Doctrina Cristiana” (Catechism and brief exposition of Christian Doctrine) by Father Jerónimo Martínez de Ripalda S.J.

Blessings!

🙂
 
CaptCrunch73 said:
Wasn’t the Catechism of the Council of Trent used prior to the CCC?
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That was what was referred to as the Roman Catechism (of the Council of Trent).
Deo_Gratias42 said:
It didn’t make any sense to me, and now I know why.
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Rainaldo said:
I’m glad I’m not the only one. What is it about the book that makes it such a painful read?
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I don’t find it to be a very painful read at all. I’ve started to give it a read-through (I’ve been following a “read through the Bible and the CCC in a year” plan), and there’s a lot of invaluable information contained in it.

I find the section on the Decalogue to be especially useful as a supplement to an examination of conscience.
 
curlycool89 said:
Remember though that the Baltimore Catechism was only ever approved for use in the US.
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Probably in many, if not most, of the English-speaking countries. We used it in London in the 50’s. AFAIK, it wasn’t available in any other language.
 
ProVobis said:
Probably in many, if not most, of the English-speaking countries. We used it in London in the 50’s. AFAIK, it wasn’t available in any other language.
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That’s why I used “approved”, not “used”. It may have been used in other countries (since it was probably the most popular english language catechism there was at the time), but I believe it was only ever explicitly approved for official use in the US.
 
I wish the bishops of this country would undertake a project to create a series of three specialized catechisms, one for children, one for teenagers, and one for adults, using the CCC as a base text.

Since it took 400ish years for the Roman Catechism to be replaced by the CCC, and 250ish years for the BC to come out after the Roman Catechism, it just might take 250 years for more age-appropriate catechisms based on the CCC to come out. I hope not!
 
curlycool89 said:
That was what was referred to as the Roman Catechism (of the Council of Trent).

I don’t find it to be a very painful read at all. I’ve started to give it a read-through (I’ve been following a “read through the Bible and the CCC in a year” plan), and there’s a lot of invaluable information contained in it.

I find the section on the Decalogue to be especially useful as a supplement to an examination of conscience.
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I was referring to reading it when I was 14 years old. It’s not that difficult to read now that I am older and more educated.
 
Deo_Gratias42 said:
I was referring to reading it when I was 14 years old. It’s not that difficult to read now that I am older and more educated.
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Ah, yes, it probably wouldn’t make any sense at 14.
YoungTradCath said:
Since it took 400ish years for the Roman Catechism to be replaced by the CCC, and 250ish years for the BC to come out after the Roman Catechism, it just might take 250 years for more age-appropriate catechisms based on the CCC to come out. I hope not!
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There is the Youcat and the Compendium, so they seem to be doing some things. It’s been just over 10 years since the CCC 2nd Edition came out (and they’re going to need to do a revision sometime. First, the Creed needs an update to the new translation, and second they’ll need to be paragraphs inserted regarding developments in Theology of the Body since it is a fairly important body of work).
 
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