What was your experience converting from Catholicism to Orthodoxy?

[Hesychios]

A friend introduced me to Eastern Christian Thought, Patristics, and Eastern Orthodox Theology at University. I was studying Theology and I became extremely interested in Patristics. I started attending a Melkite Catholic Church. The more and more I learned and tried to live an “Orthodox” way of life (fasting, praying, feasting, theology), the more I was drawn to Orthodoxy. After visiting an Orthodox Monastery, I slowly began realizing that I was attempting to live an Orthodox life, but outside of the Orthodox Church. So my wife and I converted.

Gosh!

I haven’t seen you post here in a long while!

Many years! and … well… hello again!

 

[Ad_Gentes]

Glad your experience was beautiful! Orthodoxy is not a religion of emotions, so it doesn’t surprise me that you don’t consider it a “defining moment”. Orthodoxy touches deeper within the heart which is only noticed as it grows over time. If you go without it too long, it pulls you back from deep inside you, not emotions.

I know you’re probably right. I’m not even sure what I was expecting; I guess a more sublime experience that would show me that “this is where I need to be worshiping”. While that didn’t happen, it was still a positive experience and now I’m not afraid to go back. I know that I’m welcome to worship there even if I’m not an Orthodox Christian. On another positive note, I thought it was a wonderful community and felt very welcomed from the start.

The only turnoff was a conversation I had with a very nice Orthodox lady. We were having a pleasant conversation when I told her that I had been studying Orthodoxy, the Councils, and the early Church Fathers and that everything seemed to be pointing here (i.e. to the Orthodox Church). She then try to “teach” me about Church history saying that “there were originally ‘seven’ patriarchs and that the Bishop of Rome was one of them until he decided he was infallible.” Well, not only is the information incorrect (even from an Eastern Orthodox view), I didn’t think it was appropriate to have with a visiting Roman Catholic. Other things I thought were odd was seeing so many people arrive late and leave right after communion (even before the homily) and observing some of the altar server chewing something (I assume it was gum) and chitchatting and smiling among themselves. That in itself would not prevent me from coming back. I saw it as a reflection of society, which is also present in the Catholic Church. The priest, however, was so welcoming and accessible that I think I want to get a chance to talk to him some more.

At the end, there are two things I’m looking for: the truth and real spiritual growth. Right now I think that both the Roman Catholic and the Eastern Orthodox Churches have many elements of the truth, but since they disagree in some fundamental issues of faith, I can only conclude that the teachings of one could be more correct than the other. I’m also not just looking for a nice community (I already have that at my Catholic parish), but a place where I can truly grow spiritually and get closer to God (achieve theosis).

 

[Harpazo]

A friend introduced me to Eastern Christian Thought, Patristics, and Eastern Orthodox Theology at University. I was studying Theology and I became extremely interested in Patristics. I started attending a Melkite Catholic Church. The more and more I learned and tried to live an “Orthodox” way of life (fasting, praying, feasting, theology), the more I was drawn to Orthodoxy. After visiting an Orthodox Monastery, I slowly began realizing that I was attempting to live an Orthodox life, but outside of the Orthodox Church. So my wife and I converted.

My story is almost exactly the same, except I was attending a Maronite Catholic church and I’m not married (only 20). Many years to you!

In Christ,
Andrew

 

[Ad_Gentes]

My story is almost exactly the same, except I was attending a Maronite Catholic church and I’m not married (only 20).

As I have been exploring Eastern theology and spirituality, I have considered the Eastern Catholic Churches as an option. But, no disrespect intended towards my Eastern Catholic brethren, I find a disconnect between Roman (Latin) Catholic and Eastern Catholic theologies. It seems to me that many teachings and canons of the Church are interpreted differently between these two groups (just visit the Traditional and Eastern Catholic forums to see what I mean). While a valid option as a current Catholic, I feel that if my calling is to the East, Orthodoxy would be a better answer. Then again, I’m not sure yet whether that is in fact my calling.

 

[Mickey]

Our Roman Catholic Church took a field trip to a Byzantine Catholic monastery. My wife attended but I did not. Out of curiosity my wife later attended an Eastern Catholic Divine Liturgy and she fell in love with it. I resisted for at least two years being content as a Roman Catholic. When my wife was finally able to drag me to the Divine Liturgy, I also fell in love with it. On the way home I told her that we must be Byzantine Catholic–and so we canonically changed to the Ruthenian Catholic Church.

I threw myself into the study of everything Eastern (Christian). It was fascinating! I had no idea that these eastern saints, martyrs, and dessert fathers existed. In fact, in 38 years, no Roman Catholic priest ever mentioned the existence of an Eastern side of the Church. I related strongly to the Eastern theology of apophaticism and hesychasm. The mysticism of the East was so very different than the scholasticism of the West.

But I sensed a problem. Eastern Catholic clergy would say things to me such as: “We are under the pope, but not really.” I was told that Eastern Catholics have a different understanding of purgatory and the Immaculate Conception. I noticed that the Filioque was not in our Creed.

So I dug deeper.

I began to seriously study Church history. I learned about the Church praxis and teachings when the Church was one–before the great schism. I studied the role of the early papacy before the division. I studied the seven Ecumenical councils. My library swelled with books relating to lives of saints, Church history, and theology. I have a great love for everything monastic!

Eastern Catholic clergy would instruct me to read Orthodox materials, study Orthodox theology, and worship as the Orthodox worship—but do not become Orthodox!

After much prayer and discernment, my wife and I were received into Holy Orthodoxy. We are in great peace.

Peace and blessings to you and your family!
Mickey

 

[Contarini]

Should at some point in the future you decide to be Orthodox, don’t be surprised if the Orthodox priest tells you NO as he will be testing you.

That happened to me, and it was a good thing. I was fed up with the way the Episcopal Church was going and had repeatedly failed to convince myself of the truth of Catholicism, so I thought maybe Orthodoxy was the answer (I have been interested in Orthodoxy for a very long time–this wasn’t a sudden whim–but for the most part I have regarded it as a rich and wonderful flavor of Christianity and have not been persuaded by its exclusive claims). The priest figured out that I was quite tentative and not really committed and basically told me to go back to my own church and strive for holiness. It was good advice. (But I understand that he was “testing” me in the sense that if I had come back and said “I really, really think Orthodoxy is the Truth and I’m willing to do what it takes” I’m sure he would have welcomed me.)

Edwin

 

[Ad_Gentes]

Paul the Apostle,

Thank you for your comments. I’m afraid that the Catholic priest you’ve been talking to has provided you with incorrect or incomplete information. If you don’t mind, I would like to clarify a few things for benefit of other readers.

Ad Gentes,hi,i have been told that the Catholic Church recognizes the Orthodox churches as Sister Churches and Catholic Priests have said that we are allowed to attend there,and even partake of the Sacraments as the Catholic Church recognizes them.

It is true that the Catholic Church allows Orthodox Christians to attend Mass and worship and pray at Catholic Churches. That is true for any Christian or even non-Christians. As far as non-Catholic receiving certain sacraments, this is what the Catholic Church says:

Can. 844 §3. Catholic ministers administer the sacraments of penance, Eucharist, and anointing of the sick licitly to members of Eastern Churches which do not have full communion with the Catholic Church if they seek such on their own accord and are properly disposed (emphasis added).

The Eastern Orthodox Church, however, does not allow (as far as I know) Orthodox Christians to receive these sacraments in the Catholic Church, especially if there is an Eastern Orthodox Church available to them.

But until you would decide to let the Orthodox annoint you or Baptise you,the Catholic priests have told me you are allowed to worship and pray their,you just normally wouldnt be allowed to Commune.

This is partially true. What the Catholic Church says in this regard is the following:

Can. 844 §2. Whenever necessity requires it or true spiritual advantage suggests it, and **provided that danger of error or of indifferentism is avoided **(emphasis added), the Christian faithful for whom it is physically or morally impossible to approach a Catholic minister are permitted to receive the sacraments of penance, Eucharist, and anointing of the sick from non-Catholic ministers in whose Churches these sacraments are valid [e.g. Eastern Orthodox Church].

In most instances, it is not allowed for Catholics to receive these sacraments in Orthodox Churches unless the requirements above are met.

Catholics are allowed to go back and forth but the Orthodox are not allowed to attend and use the Sacraments at Rome.

It is incorrect that “Catholics are allowed to go back and forth” as you state. Attending an Orthodox Church as a guest or in special events (e.g. a wedding) is permitted, but not as an ongoing practice. In fact, an Eastern Orthodox Divine Liturgy would only meet the Catholic Sunday or Holy Day obligation if no Catholic Church is available. But even then, the obligation to attend Mass in that case is abrogated.

Can. 1247 On Sundays and other holy days of obligation, the faithful are obliged to participate in the Mass.

Can. 1248 §1. A person who assists at a Mass celebrated anywhere in a Catholic rite either on the feast day itself or in the evening of the preceding day satisfies the obligation of participating in the Mass.

Can 1248 §2. If participation in the eucharistic celebration becomes impossible because of the absence of a sacred minister or for another grave cause, it is strongly recommended that the faithful take part in a liturgy of the word if such a liturgy is celebrated in a parish church or other sacred place according to the prescripts of the diocesan bishop or that they devote themselves to prayer for a suitable time alone, as a family, or, as the occasion permits, in groups of families. (emphasis added)

Ive had some bad experiences with some greeks maybe thats why i couldnt care less if i dont attend Orthodox Churches.I hanging on still to a couple of russian priests but maybe il move away from them too and just mix with my own kind

I’m sorry to hear you’ve had these bad experiences, but I don’t believe that Church hopping is the answer. Bad (and good) experiences can happen in any church whether Catholic, Orthodox, or Protestant. If you believe in what the Eastern Orthodox Church teaches, then you should attend an Eastern Orthodox Church and not a Roman Catholic one. If on the other hand, you believe in what the Catholic Church teaches, then it’s obvious that you should attend Catholic Mass and come back into full communion with Rome. Discerning what you believe and where you belong is one thing, but indifferentism, which means believing that “one religion is as good as another”, is another thing.

You are in my prayers.

 

[Ad_Gentes]

After reviewing my previous post, I realize that it was my legalistic mindset as a Latin Rite Roman Catholic that prompted me to answer the way I did, quoting Canon Law. One of the things that intrigues me about Eastern Orthodoxy is the spirituality and mysticism. Unfortunately, I don’t thing I’m there yet. I guess that’s something I need to work on.

 

[Nine_Two]

After reviewing my previous post, I realize that it was my legalistic mindset as a Latin Rite Roman Catholic that prompted me to answer the way I did, quoting Canon Law. One of the things that intrigues me about Eastern Orthodoxy is the spirituality and mysticism. Unfortunately, I don’t thing I’m there yet. I guess that’s something I need to work on.

I wouldn’t worry about not being legalistic beforegoing to the Church, I think it is a human tendency to go towards a by-the-book attitude.

Also since we don’t have a long code of canon law it often forces people to think about the spirit in which those laws we have were written, rather than just going by the letter, this has the side effect of leaving loop holes so big that everyone avoids them.

 

[Paul_theApostle]

Hi Ad Gentes,thanks for your reply,
I am mixed up on how to reply and even in what manner to speak but il try and just speak openly,

im not sure if you got my first quote mixed up,but i meant about Rome seeing the Eastern Churches as valid for Catholics to attend and even use the Sacraments their,but i then said to one Catholic Priest ,but Father for me to Commune their first they have to Baptise etc me again,he said well thats not a bad thing that theyve done that to you and that that must be their practice.

I thought gee great,see how at odds these two Churches are with eachother,the Orthodox plain and simple dont accept the Sacraments even Baptisms of Rome thats why they rebaptise.and i go to enough Orthodox Churches to see it happen.

I see you said their are circumstances where Catholics may Commune from other Ministers,but do you know if the Orthodox are aware of those Circumstances like where there are no Catholic Churches around,do you know if Orthodox Commune Catholics in those circumstances,

I know some Orthodox Clergy have Communed Catholics at times but i also know they come under attack or great criticism for ‘breaking the rules’.

Maybe youve answered my questions but sorry my concentration is poor so allow me to speak out, even an Orthodox priest told me Catholics are allowed to come to our Church as Rome allows it but the Orthodox people dont usually allow worshipping at Rome,although at Rome you see plenty of Orthodox Bishops attending Papal Services .

I was just trying to say to you maybe not to rush into getting Baptised or Chrismated by the Orthodox,if you do do that then you would obviously show you dont believe you were really baptised beforehand at Rome ,as the Creed says “We acknowledge one Baptism etc” or if you get Chrismated then you would assume not to think that you already recieved the gift of the Holy Spirit at your Confirmation.

Or is it like a supermarket in Heaven where there is a shelf with the Holy Spirit on it and different items says “Lutheran Holy Spirit” or “Catholic Holy Spirit” or Orthodox Holy Spirit"

personally i think the whole thousands and thousands of officialy different and divided Churches is vomit and spew and utter blasphemy before God and like spitting in his Face.

I see Italian people getting baptised again like i was at the Russian Churches and Greek Churches,and i bet those Orthodox priests just rub their hands with that stuff.

The Orthodox dont consider Catholics Baptised, as we can see from teaching this and practicing this ,but then they send their Bishops and Patriarchs to Pray with the Pope at Rome .

Their is so much with the Church that i could basically spit on and i think after many years of worrying about whats Truth and whats the Correct Orthodox Church and so on i just go where i like ,if i wanna go at all ,no one is gonna tell me i have to do this or that,

anyway i would just say ,as you said that you got turned off by something at the Orthodox Church ,i say keep going if you want as i was saying that if you go there to pray and worship Christ ask your priest if you can go on Sundays whatever ,but see if you fit in,or if more things turn you off to the point where you say im done here ,ive been put off the Greek Churches and will never go back,im only a part of a russian parish now and with a couple of the preists there who tell me not to Commune at Rome,but i did the other day and i felt alive and well and happy.

So did God condemn me because as an Orthodox i communed at Rome ,did i drop dead?

no i felt well and alive,gee i shouldve listened to my anti Rome Russian Priest,

Keep speaking to the Orthodox and you will see how anti Rome they are,if you can handle it then good luck ,

Cheers,thanks…

Paul

 

[Nine_Two]

Paul, the Orthodox Church and the Roman Catholic Church have the exact same view of Eucharist, and one of those views is only those in communion with the Church may partake. As Ad Gentes posted within the Catholic Church there are certain exceptions which allow Orthodox (both Eastern and Oriental), and Assyrians to partake under set circumstances, Orthodox are not encouraged to take it whenever they happen to be visiting.

If you think it is unfair that Catholics can’t receive in an Orthodox Church, keep in mind that it is the exact same situation that protestants face in Catholic churches.

I’m curious to know where you’re from, because I find it interesting that priests would forbid attending worship services at other churches. Since being recieved into the Orthodox Church I’ve been to a service in a protestant church, and never been corrected, and likewise when I was a catechumen my priest even told me that given my circumstances I should go to another. Although I wouldn’t exactly say I worshipped (that’s a subject for another thread), I did nonetheless attend

Now if you mean regularly attend, no, you can’t do that, but you can’t do that in the Catholic Church either, and anyone who tells you you are allowed is mistaken.

 

[Paul_theApostle]

Nine two,neither Europe nor Americas i live ,somewhere else,with plenty of Ocean around it…

The Orthodox can be very strict regarding Church Canons/regulations,the Orthodox believe and teach Rome has become a dead branch of the living vine,rotten members also,and that they are Heretics…

There are Church Canons which forbid praying with heretics,and one can be ex-communicated for entering into a heretical Church,and priests to be defrocked if they enter and pray with Heretics.

I know Orthodox Christians who refuse going to other peoples weddings or funerals,even a mother didnt go to her sons wedding in a Catholic church because she doesnt accept Catholicism…

But as i said before ,maybe they should see many of their Bishops attending Services at Rome with the Pope…

My or the Orthodox priest i know knows me and understands when i go to Catholic Churches to pray or to mass but he tells me dont use the Sacraments .

Ive used the Sacraments at Rome and have felt Great Blessings from them,i take that as God being their with me and for me,as ive said most if not all Orthodoxy is very much anti Rome and Catholicism and basically im sick to death of it and have attended bible classes for 15 years with Greeks and i can tell you they love to bag,rubbish criticise ,attack ,put down,condemn ,show contempt ,hostility,resignation and hatred for the Catholic and protestent Western Churches.

Well good luck to them ,i dont want a bar of it anymore ,it is sickening,the russian parish i go to has loving Fathers but they even say to my face that Catholics are Heretics…

But the Sacraments at Orthodoxy also benefit me ive found,plus all the saints and prayers there but the bad feelings towards Rome and all their attacks have turned me off amongst other important things.

I found this to read and liked it ,finally i read something from a Catholic perspective,even if some of you Orthodox may think its garbage…

ourcatholicfaith.org/theeasternschism.html

also De Gentes go on the Orthodox forums and talk to them and see more of Orthodoxy if you dont maybe already…

and its not a Latin thing to quote Canon law, Canon law drools out of the Orthodox’s mouth like saliva…

bye

 

[Mickey]

have attended bible classes for 15 years with Greeks and i can tell you they love to bag,rubbish criticise ,attack ,put down,condemn ,show contempt ,hostility,resignation and hatred for the Catholic and protestent Western Churches.

Careful with that beam in your eye.

Canon law drools out of the Orthodox’s mouth like saliva.

Your descriptions seem inappropriate.

 

[Paul_theApostle]

:extrahappy:Oh my friends! gee i wondered where you all were…

gees i missed yous

guess the back doors calling me now

 

[Mickey]

guess the back doors calling me now