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utunumsint
Guest
I am curious to know what people think Heaven will be like? (You can also include purgatory if you want.)
God Bless.
God Bless.
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Lucky_Scrunchy
Guest
Have you read about any near death experiences? Or, you can read Revelations, St. John gives us an idea about it.
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cheezey
Guest
Or, What would I like it to be?"
Complete relief from the burdens of earth and of course, God-centered.
Otherwise, too big a concept for this already overwhelmed and pained brain.
Thus, I can hardly wait; that is, if He wants me.
He might tell me to turn around.
Complete relief from the burdens of earth and of course, God-centered.
Otherwise, too big a concept for this already overwhelmed and pained brain.
Thus, I can hardly wait; that is, if He wants me.
He might tell me to turn around.
S
soma
Guest
Heaven is in the here and now. Enjoying the infinite Reality where past, present and future are one.
C
cheezey
Guest
:bigyikes::bigyikes::bigyikes:
man, if that’s the case…
I did enjoy it a long time ago.
Now, it is just too much.
Too much
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pollynova
Guest
You know that feeling when you are really tired and you didn’t sleep all night? Then when your alarm goes off in the morning, you hear that there is a blizzard and school has been cancelled? So you shut off your radio and curl back up under the covers? It’s that feeling of relief and comfort, that’s what heaven will be like, only times a billion. 
You know when you and your friends just start laughing at something and you can’t stop? And it seems like every little thing is just hilarious? And you laugh so hard your face starts to hurt? Imagine if your face never hurt and the laughter will never end.
You know when you and your friends just start laughing at something and you can’t stop? And it seems like every little thing is just hilarious? And you laugh so hard your face starts to hurt? Imagine if your face never hurt and the laughter will never end.
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cheezey
Guest
You know that feeling when you are really tired and you didn’t sleep all night? Then when your alarm goes off in the morning, you hear that there is a blizzard and school has been cancelled? So you shut off your radio and curl back up under the covers? It’s that feeling of relief and comfort, that’s what heaven will be like, only times a billion.
You know when you and your friends just start laughing at something and you can’t stop? And it seems like every little thing is just hilarious? And you laugh so hard your face starts to hurt? Imagine if your face never hurt and the laughter will never end.
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Yehuda_Dion
Guest
Seeing the Virgin Mary face to face, among other things! I’m sure that seeing her will be one of the things I most enjoy, though.
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js_cat3391
Guest
Yeah, I do not really know what that means. Is this from the perspective of someone who lives in heaven? Who said this? these statements by themselves do not sound healthy in that they can lead to new age beliefs, in that most people interpret “the here and now” to be on earth, and that some how we can attain heaven in our own minds. We are not currently in heaven. If any saint experienced this, by itself, this statement can by taken out of context, and it was a great gift from God, and rare experience for the most holy. I, a mere sinner living in the secular world, would not base my faith on this. Correct me if I am wrong
This is one of the things you get to have in heaven
"Beatific Vision
The immediate knowledge of God which the angelic spirits and the souls of the just enjoy in Heaven. It is called “vision” to distinguish it from the mediate knowledge of God which the human mind may attain in the present life. And since in beholding God face to face the created intelligence finds perfect happiness, the vision is termed “beatific”. For further explanation of the subject, see HEAVEN."
forums.catholic-questions.org/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=10351920
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AlanFromWichita
Guest
Precisely. The kingdom does not have to wait until after we’re dead, but I think there are too many low-expectation people and even religious leaders that don’t believe it. To those who have been entered into the kingdom, it’s self obvious.
But too many jump off the ship as soon as you say, “here and now,” and I’m thinking maybe one of the reasons is that none of us want to be left out, or to leave others out – and if we go around saying it’s possible to be in the kingdom, and I’m not, then I feel inferior to those who are in it. But upon actual entry into the kingdom there is no dualistic boundary which makes us any better or luckier than those who are not in it. If they are called to follow Jesus into the kingdom, they will enter as well. And they have to be ready for the fact that we are not all going in at the same time. Of course, if we convince ourselves that nobody can possibly enter during the lifetime, then we are all in the same miserable boat, slogging our way through life, hoping and praying there will be relief, and not eternal suffering, after we die.
It’s a place where all the strange and weird stuff Jesus says, all makes sense. It doesn’t “figure” if you use a worldly reference frame to measure, but it makes perfect sense to a mystic who has achieved this divine union and entered into the kingdom. First shall be last; how can that be? The kingdom is a place where there is no measurement of value or worth because everything it totally precious. Or here’s another one: the greatest is the one who serves; turn that around and “the one who serves is the greatest.” Jesus absolutely became our servant, formally even when He washed Peter’s feet. Jesus served the best and the most honestly and selflessly, so He is the greatest.
How about “do not judge?” This one is a stumbling block for so many, it seems to be almost an Institutionalized Truth that we are supposed to judge so most people I talk to simply refuse to even try to quit judging. After all, our entire society is built upon people with the foundation that All That Matters is the judging.
How about Luke 12:31-32?
Instead, seek his kingdom, and these other things will be given you besides. Do not be afraid any longer, little flock, for your Father is pleased to give you the kingdom.
This is absolutely contrary to what we train up our kids to believe. We tell them that they will have the things they “need” in life by hard work, will power, determination, etc. In the kingdom, there is no need because you have a spirit of poverty. There is no ownership (except to respect others’ civil property rights) so everything you have right now, in the past, and in the future, is abundance. Jesus came so that we may live in abundance, but we also know that rich people can’t enter the kingdom very easily. In the kingdom, all of that makes perfect sense.
The workers in the vineyard that got full pay for a part of a day’s work – like the master who reaps where he doesn’t sow – in the kingdom all of that makes sense.
Basically in the kingdom, faith turns to sight and you feel like singing: “It is Well with my Soul.”
In the kingdom there is no blame or shame, because there is no judgment. Judgment of others’ behavior is only important to fulfill our civic obligations, and if we are in charge of a church then THAT is where some of the things St. Paul said about needing to judge on another, but other than that we have no guilt, no emotional ties to negative people or events. No codependence.
In the kingdom there is peace and serenity, more than can be even imagined in a worldly sense. The world cannot give us peace as Jesus can – it can only give us “comfort” and that comfort is temporary only as long as the comfortable conditions last. In the kingdom the peace of Christ keeps us in a state of serenity when we need it most, staying with us through the ups and downs of what the world throws at us.
Those are just the first few things that popped into my fingers, about being in the kingdom v. before my eyes were opened.
Entering the kingdom is illustrated by the servant of Elisha:
[BIBLEDRB]2 Kgs 6:15-17[/BIBLEDRB]
In the world, they were outnumbered. In the kingdom, as Elisha knew because he was already there, they were the dominating force.
[BIBLEDRB]matt 11:15[/BIBLEDRB]
Alan
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js_cat3391
Guest
So you are saying that if we are holy enough, we can live in heaven while on earth?
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AlanFromWichita
Guest
That’s a good question. Not exactly “holy” enough, or I would not have made it.
The experience I’m talking about, and I’m now certain that this is what Jesus meant by “the kingdom,” as in “you have to be like a child,” etc., and it is here on earth. Also now when I read from mystics the things they write make very clear sense and are almost so obvious you’d think it would go without saying, whereas their writing used to strike me as mysterious and wonderful. There is a narrow path, and IMO it is narrow because it’s only wide enough for one soul. So each soul has its own path, all of them going through Jesus and arranged by the Holy Spirit, aka Divine Therapist. Most people don’t find their path because they are all trying to ride the coattails of somebody else, as they struggle in vain to find on God on the other people’s paths – i.e. lemmings. I can’t say about others’ paths, but my own was marked with contemplative purgation, which is like purgatory on earth and is described in the Dark Night of the Soul. (a book about the stanzas I quoted earlier, by St. John of the Cross)
I don’t know anything about the “heaven” that is eternal life after our body dies, so for that I’d have to defer to the scholars. I don’t know if it’s a continuation of kingdom on earth, or if purgatory is bypassed then, or if it’s so different and more magnificent than anything my mind can comprehend – I just don’t know, so I leave that to others to hash out.
But to get into the kingdom, theologically isn’t even a challenge. All one has to do is believe the very first sentence of Jesus’s Sermon on the Mount: “Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.” Bada boom, bada bing. If you wish to be in the kingdom, do things that give you a spirit of poverty. Self-effacement. Ego reduction. Denying oneself. Lent is the perfect time to get started on things that really transform us by accomplishing this reduction of the egoic false self.
But it isn’t because I’m holy. It’s because I was gifted with healing and well it’s a long story but here we are. True that through contemplative prayer, study, and other means, I did everything I could learn to open my mind and heart to the Lord, so the He may come in and touch me without interference by my carnal mind. For example, with Lectio Divina we can achieve true union with the prayer of Jesus, by bringing you into more intimate contact with the Word than just the literal sense (which is where many people begin and end). (ref CCC 2709-2724) You can’t direct the Lord to perform healing, but if you learn to open yourself and get the ego and the calculating mind out of the way, the Lord IMO is pleased to heal without delay. Jesus gave us the formula: 1) deny yourself, 2) take up your cross, and 3) follow Him. The problem is, the insight on how to open ourselves is itself a gift, and is given in a varied way to each of us – so I can’t compare my path to yours, but I can have empathy for the things others are going through. The other problem is, sometimes healing comes in forms we don’t recognize as healing – sometimes it takes a “scenic detour” to places you think are even worse – so when we can’t seem to see any light at the end of the tunnel, we are not anxious or fearful primarily because of faith and trust – and we find we have as much light as we need for the “here and now.”
The reason I don’t claim to be “holy,” is that makes it sound like I am particularly virtuous or something. Well I have been improving as far as the heavenly virtues (now I’m working on temperance), but when it comes to works of mercy and being of utmost moral standard, there are scores of other people – most of them afa I know – much greater than I. To me, a young widow raising her child, doing what it takes to keep shelter, food, and gas money for her and her child to get to work and school … I consider her a hero. She’s overcome obstacles like ones I’ve dreaded but never actually had to face. I have to admit, that even with 11 years of psychosis and disability, I was richly blessed in ways that didn’t really test me the way that young widow is tested and found true. I have no way of knowing her holiness as the Lord would see her, so I can’t know her spiritual state – but I’m still impressed at her actions, which demonstrate her faith.
Alan
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Ridgerunner
Guest
We don’t know. Jesus has told us we can’t even imagine. So I guess we can’t.
However, maybe we can imagine just a little…in our human way.
Possibly I’m not one of the brightest bulbs on the tree, and so I think of heaven in a way that might simply represent satisfaction of a longing. But then, maybe it satisfies all longings. Anway, here goes:
I think of eventually being both physical and spiritual after the Last Judgment, but even before that, I think of being freed from physical limitations, yet still being interested in the physical world. I would like to go right inside a tree without harming the tree, and watch everything that goes on in there. I would like to travel (with the speed of thought) to the center of the earth to see the swirling currents of molten iron. I would like to see what’s between the surface and that core. I would like to “tap into” God’s knowledge of every process there; every force, every resistance, every mathematical and chemical formula with the ease of looking up and seeing a cloud as I do now.
I would like to travel to stars and do the same. I would visit the inside of a black hole and marvel at the physics equations involved. Might I, in a glorified body, be able to feel millions of degrees and unimaginable pressures just as they are, but without pain and without the slightest injury? I would want to see the past as God sees it…what a Roman legion looked like; what Tutankhamen did on his days off, what the pyramids looked like when first built, what Kateri Tekakwitha’s life was like from moment to moment. I would enjoy seeing time compressed so I could witness evolution, such as it might have been, from beginning to end in the space of a thought.
I would want to see angels as they really are. Are they “living principles” of things we think are only material…like the operation of Quantum Mechanics, but self-aware? Are they so mind-blowingly magnificent our synapses would fail if we saw them now?
And the singing before the throne of God. What is it like? Is it aural harmony or something far more vast, the harmonious interweaving of all waves and energies and virtues and the natures of all beings into a harmonious whole that would make our finest choruses here seem like the wind whistling through a crack in a door jamb?
And do we perhaps simultaneously communicate with all people who ever lived? Will we be able,perhaps, to do that, and to understand maybe why one person whom we would never have thought virtuous on earth really was and is one of the greatest of God’s saints? Will mere human virtues seem far more magnificent then than they do now? Will we find it impossible not to truly love every person; to see him or her at his/her most incredible, illuminated best and to finally understand why God loved him/her? Will we, in glorified bodies, appear at our absolute best, and simultaneously to everyone else as unborn, as babies, as kids, as teenagers, as adults, as old people; every physical manifestation we ever presented, but beautiful?
And God Himself. On this earth we come to believe, however imperfectly, that we are vessels that can’t be filled, somehow. We feel it all the time. We never know so much we can’t comprehend another thing. We never get tired of beauty. We never get tired or real love properly perceived. We’re like Goethe’s Faust in a way; we never stop seeking. We never stop wanting. But we will never be tempted to utter Mephistopheles’ limiting deceptive declaration; “Stay, you are so beautiful”. We will not say it because we will be connected intimately with the Infinite. We can never exhaust God. Never. Not His knowledge, not His wisdom, not His beauty, not in anything. And certainly not His love. Our hunger will go on forever, but will always be satiated in the milisecond, and the next and the next. We think about moments of love here that were so intense our heart leaped, perhaps even painfully so. But we’ll be able to stand that staggeringly huge inflow of love then, with no heart attack. And we’ll love back.
I like thinking about it, even though I know “the eye has not seen, nor the ear heard, nor has it entered the heart of man what God has prepared for those who love Him…”
However, maybe we can imagine just a little…in our human way.
Possibly I’m not one of the brightest bulbs on the tree, and so I think of heaven in a way that might simply represent satisfaction of a longing. But then, maybe it satisfies all longings. Anway, here goes:
I think of eventually being both physical and spiritual after the Last Judgment, but even before that, I think of being freed from physical limitations, yet still being interested in the physical world. I would like to go right inside a tree without harming the tree, and watch everything that goes on in there. I would like to travel (with the speed of thought) to the center of the earth to see the swirling currents of molten iron. I would like to see what’s between the surface and that core. I would like to “tap into” God’s knowledge of every process there; every force, every resistance, every mathematical and chemical formula with the ease of looking up and seeing a cloud as I do now.
I would like to travel to stars and do the same. I would visit the inside of a black hole and marvel at the physics equations involved. Might I, in a glorified body, be able to feel millions of degrees and unimaginable pressures just as they are, but without pain and without the slightest injury? I would want to see the past as God sees it…what a Roman legion looked like; what Tutankhamen did on his days off, what the pyramids looked like when first built, what Kateri Tekakwitha’s life was like from moment to moment. I would enjoy seeing time compressed so I could witness evolution, such as it might have been, from beginning to end in the space of a thought.
I would want to see angels as they really are. Are they “living principles” of things we think are only material…like the operation of Quantum Mechanics, but self-aware? Are they so mind-blowingly magnificent our synapses would fail if we saw them now?
And the singing before the throne of God. What is it like? Is it aural harmony or something far more vast, the harmonious interweaving of all waves and energies and virtues and the natures of all beings into a harmonious whole that would make our finest choruses here seem like the wind whistling through a crack in a door jamb?
And do we perhaps simultaneously communicate with all people who ever lived? Will we be able,perhaps, to do that, and to understand maybe why one person whom we would never have thought virtuous on earth really was and is one of the greatest of God’s saints? Will mere human virtues seem far more magnificent then than they do now? Will we find it impossible not to truly love every person; to see him or her at his/her most incredible, illuminated best and to finally understand why God loved him/her? Will we, in glorified bodies, appear at our absolute best, and simultaneously to everyone else as unborn, as babies, as kids, as teenagers, as adults, as old people; every physical manifestation we ever presented, but beautiful?
And God Himself. On this earth we come to believe, however imperfectly, that we are vessels that can’t be filled, somehow. We feel it all the time. We never know so much we can’t comprehend another thing. We never get tired of beauty. We never get tired or real love properly perceived. We’re like Goethe’s Faust in a way; we never stop seeking. We never stop wanting. But we will never be tempted to utter Mephistopheles’ limiting deceptive declaration; “Stay, you are so beautiful”. We will not say it because we will be connected intimately with the Infinite. We can never exhaust God. Never. Not His knowledge, not His wisdom, not His beauty, not in anything. And certainly not His love. Our hunger will go on forever, but will always be satiated in the milisecond, and the next and the next. We think about moments of love here that were so intense our heart leaped, perhaps even painfully so. But we’ll be able to stand that staggeringly huge inflow of love then, with no heart attack. And we’ll love back.
I like thinking about it, even though I know “the eye has not seen, nor the ear heard, nor has it entered the heart of man what God has prepared for those who love Him…”
A
AlanFromWichita
Guest
Ummm …
Wow that was awesome! :bowdown:
For me, this is by far the most compelling vision of what I’d love to enjoy in heaven, that I’ve ever read. I’ve thought several of these things before, and you extended them. Your post has taken my imagination in every direction it already loves to go, and added a few new directions. All in one post. :dancing:
Thank you so much for sharing that thought model. :tiphat:
(Have you considered a career in writing?)
Alan
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Ridgerunner
Guest
You are very kind.Ummm …
Wow that was awesome! :bowdown:
For me, this is by far the most compelling vision of what I’d love to enjoy in heaven, that I’ve ever read. I’ve thought several of these things before, and you extended them. Your post has taken my imagination in every direction it already loves to go, and added a few new directions. All in one post. :dancing:
Thank you so much for sharing that thought model. :tiphat:
(Have you considered a career in writing?)
Alan
You know, I have sometimes wondered whether our ability to imagine is a small part of why we are “in the image and likeness of God”. We imagine, and it has a reality but only in our minds. It’s weak, yet it can be vivid and can affect actions. But our imaginings do not automatically become real. Our thoughts and our acts are not one. Yet, God’s “imaginings” do become real. His thought is His act. And so, is it foolish or silly to imagine what God might have in store for us; to seek, however imperfectly, a union with that Mind, to the extent He has empowered us to do it and to the extent He has given us hints about it? Might we perhaps become closer to Him by that method, just we might with our acts as well?
C
cheezey
Guest
Nice is an amazing understatement to this post…Thank you
- Status