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PatienceAndLove
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hehehehe! An all too appropriate quote, all things considered!
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anniemart
Guest
FrankLawrence…with all due respect:
“The definition of “heresy” is the denial of divinely revealed truth.”
Correct and as highly offended as I was by your post…this is what I concluded your quoted statement to be…understand that regardless of how many endless eloquent words you use to state your opinion…they all boil down to suggestive generalities. Your obvious devotion for your preferred youth programs is awesome but it doesn’t make you the only one with the only solution. If you want to argue how other posters interpret or misinterpret another’s post; I won’t waste your time or mine arguing semantics.
This is why your post offended me…I am a parent of 3 children and they each have a relationship with Jesus. From the 16 year old to the 9 year old…Jesus is the love of their lives. Are they out of the ordinary? Absolutely not. We are a normal, God fearing and God loving family who will always see humility as the golden ring. My children are normal in their desires and wishes in comparison to children of similar ages. The difference is that the know who their savior is…they know who really matters above all else. Are we saints in the making? I hope so! We should all want to be…heaven is a community of saints and being one is a priority for getting in…Do we live saintly lives? Nope…we strive to though.
Jesus’ Holy name is spoken daily in our home and his suffering is never a low priority. My kids are not in Catholic schools and they understand reverence for the mass and experience different degrees of it at times. We all do…why? because we’re all sinners. Remember, the call to conversion is holy and ongoing; constant;and forever.
So where do I disagaree with you? Everywhere you indicate that Jesus is absent in the homes where teens reside. Your posts don’t give parents the sufficient credit they deserve. By the way, as you well know, there are hundreds of parents that post on these forums…but let’s not forget about those who don’t…we might just unintentionally clump them in with the cause of the problem. Those of us who post here on these forums are certainly not the only ones hoping to stay on the right team. .
Peace
“The definition of “heresy” is the denial of divinely revealed truth.”
Correct and as highly offended as I was by your post…this is what I concluded your quoted statement to be…understand that regardless of how many endless eloquent words you use to state your opinion…they all boil down to suggestive generalities. Your obvious devotion for your preferred youth programs is awesome but it doesn’t make you the only one with the only solution. If you want to argue how other posters interpret or misinterpret another’s post; I won’t waste your time or mine arguing semantics.
This is why your post offended me…I am a parent of 3 children and they each have a relationship with Jesus. From the 16 year old to the 9 year old…Jesus is the love of their lives. Are they out of the ordinary? Absolutely not. We are a normal, God fearing and God loving family who will always see humility as the golden ring. My children are normal in their desires and wishes in comparison to children of similar ages. The difference is that the know who their savior is…they know who really matters above all else. Are we saints in the making? I hope so! We should all want to be…heaven is a community of saints and being one is a priority for getting in…Do we live saintly lives? Nope…we strive to though.
Jesus’ Holy name is spoken daily in our home and his suffering is never a low priority. My kids are not in Catholic schools and they understand reverence for the mass and experience different degrees of it at times. We all do…why? because we’re all sinners. Remember, the call to conversion is holy and ongoing; constant;and forever.
So where do I disagaree with you? Everywhere you indicate that Jesus is absent in the homes where teens reside. Your posts don’t give parents the sufficient credit they deserve. By the way, as you well know, there are hundreds of parents that post on these forums…but let’s not forget about those who don’t…we might just unintentionally clump them in with the cause of the problem. Those of us who post here on these forums are certainly not the only ones hoping to stay on the right team. .
Peace
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Walking_Home
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Sarabande
Guest
PatienceAndLove - I didn’t take what you said like that at all. I’m sorry that other people did. I understood what you meant exactly how you are explaining yourself now. I think you and I think along the same terms and that is probably why I didn’t think of your statement as everything you described in the above quote. Amazing how the written word can be misconstrued.
God bless!
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Sarabande
Guest
I think that may be the case for children and teens who don’t attend Catholic school, but at least in the schools I attended and of those my peers attended, we all had to read and study the Bible, use our concordance, own a student Catholic Bible, etc. I think in almost all Catholic high schools in my area, every student has to read and study the Old Testament Freshman year and the New Testament Sophomore year, including the study of history of the time period and the geographical region. I loved my religion classes because of it and really missed it when I had to switch to public high school due to financial reasons. I do know that I had classmates who could care less about reading the Bible, which is sad because they missed out on a lot.
You are right that it is important for them to read the Bible. For some it can help in seeing Jesus in a different light. I also think, though, that it is important to have qualified people to really explain the difficult passages of the Bible, as I personnally know some who became turned off to the faith because they did read the Bible from beginning to end. I can’t see it myself and would never have been turned off by it, but I can understand how some passages are very troublesome and difficult to comprehend.
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anniemart
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And your **generality **that most kids don’t understand the mass is insulting to most parents…not to mention that you alone can not perceive to know the state of anyone’s soul regardless of its age in years. Also, I won’t argue about what wrong idea I got from your post because everyone has different interpretations despite how hard you try to explain yourself. This is expected on any type of forum…in general discussions…over dinner with friends…with family…in life altogether.
My best solution to offer here? Give parents the credit they deserve even if they don’t do more than what you can visibly see; that being sitting in church for mass. There’s great power in this you know. Also, I will always pray for and believe that there are many more parents that are doing the right thing than not. To believe otherwise is to give in to the evil one.
Jesus, My Lord and My God, Keep Me Humble. Amen
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FrankLawrence
Guest
Well, when I read a post as off-the-wall as that, I just need to remember, He died for your sins, too.FrankLawrence…with all due respect:
“The definition of “heresy” is the denial of divinely revealed truth.”
Correct and as highly offended as I was by your post…this is what I concluded your quoted statement to be…understand that regardless of how many endless eloquent words you use to state your opinion…they all boil down to suggestive generalities. Your obvious devotion for your preferred youth programs is awesome but it doesn’t make you the only one with the only solution. If you want to argue how other posters interpret or misinterpret another’s post; I won’t waste your time or mine arguing semantics.
This is why your post offended me…I am a parent of 3 children and they each have a relationship with Jesus. From the 16 year old to the 9 year old…Jesus is the love of their lives. Are they out of the ordinary? Absolutely not. We are a normal, God fearing and God loving family who will always see humility as the golden ring. My children are normal in their desires and wishes in comparison to children of similar ages. The difference is that the know who their savior is…they know who really matters above all else. Are we saints in the making? I hope so! We should all want to be…heaven is a community of saints and being one is a priority for getting in…Do we live saintly lives? Nope…we strive to though.
Jesus’ Holy name is spoken daily in our home and his suffering is never a low priority. My kids are not in Catholic schools and they understand reverence for the mass and experience different degrees of it at times. We all do…why? because we’re all sinners. Remember, the call to conversion is holy and ongoing; constant;and forever.
So where do I disagaree with you? Everywhere you indicate that Jesus is absent in the homes where teens reside. Your posts don’t give parents the sufficient credit they deserve. By the way, as you well know, there are hundreds of parents that post on these forums…but let’s not forget about those who don’t…we might just unintentionally clump them in with the cause of the problem. Those of us who post here on these forums are certainly not the only ones hoping to stay on the right team. .
Peace
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FrankLawrence
Guest
You are truly out of touch with reality, Annie.
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anniemart
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Poor me, the out of touch with reality parent and just a sister in Christ… No one with anything significant to say to you FankLawrence. This thread is all yours.
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agapewolf
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annie, it is not insulting to most parents that I am talking about, because most parents are not like you…one that cares about the faith.You do realize I am saying the word “most” don’t you? That means there are in existence, such as yourself, and many folks on the threads here that are the exception…no need to be insulted.
MOST parents couldn’t care less about their kids going to church, or themselves going to church. My CCD example was about the ones that are actually ENROLLED and ATTEND. How many baptized Catholics are out there that are not attending far exceeds those that are. And then we have the non-Catholics folks too. THis is the reality of the situation. I know of many students in my Catholic school who are not brought to Mass most of the time. And again, these are kids who are actually in a Catholic school.
Remember, I’m not talking about a vacuum here of the population of the families you see at Church every week involved in the parish. I’m talking about the population of the whole city/country/world. You look at rise in murders, abortions, teens prengancies, teen/ pre-marital sex, pornography, fatherless homes, etc etc etc. Geez…come on. THAT is what we are up against. and Realzing this fact is not giving in to the evil one, and I resent that implication. Realizing the battle is all the more empowering to step up and work at it and we can know that the gates of hell will not prevail
and again, do not put words in my mouth, I never ever said I knew the state of someone’s soul, or condemned anyone…ever.
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Karl_M
Guest
In the old days, this would be called “the $64,000 question.” Nowadays, even “the million dollar question” seems a bit dated.
Anyway, I think extreme Catholic education, no putzing around, no PC stuff, just crank it up-nicely of course, but strong education and no wishy-washy stuff.
The only problem is that it’ll take about forty years to work, when today’s kids start having kids and those kids start having kids (think Vatican II in reverse).
Anyway, I think extreme Catholic education, no putzing around, no PC stuff, just crank it up-nicely of course, but strong education and no wishy-washy stuff.
The only problem is that it’ll take about forty years to work, when today’s kids start having kids and those kids start having kids (think Vatican II in reverse).
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BloodStaindRose
Guest
I believe being reared in a good strong Catholic home where your conscience is formed will aid the youth in going to Mass. But it is not just going to Mass that is important, it is presenting yourself in a manner that shows your belief and understanding of the Catholic faith.
Teen Masses may increase the youth population attending Mass, but what good does it do if they do not understand the purpose or values.
Teen Masses may increase the youth population attending Mass, but what good does it do if they do not understand the purpose or values.
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chicago
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I think it brings them closer to Christ and offers the opportunity for growth in understanding who he is, building that relationship with him, and starting to conform one’s life to those values. If they get that much out of Mass, then they’ll probably stick with it and move towards a healthy purpose of staying in the Church and offering true worship.
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djbkjdla
Guest
I am actually thinking of two possibilities that might work. Both are found in the responses some of the others have already given; however, some friends of ours (my husband and mine) just had this very same discussion. Also, a brother-in-law just quit the church not too long ago because Mass was too boring for his kids.
I am a firm believer in children being challenged to live their faith - not just learn it. Kids can do great things if we allow them to and if they know we believe in them. This is when their faith becomes very exciting to them.
Also, my daughter attended a Girls’ Catholic Leadership Camp this summer. The priest giving daily Mass based the week long Mass sermons on “What do the parts of the Mass mean”. My daughter learned a lot and before this, really had no idea what to think about or pray about during many of the different parts of the Mass. So, I think kids need to be informed about the meaning of all parts of the Mass.
I am a firm believer in children being challenged to live their faith - not just learn it. Kids can do great things if we allow them to and if they know we believe in them. This is when their faith becomes very exciting to them.
Also, my daughter attended a Girls’ Catholic Leadership Camp this summer. The priest giving daily Mass based the week long Mass sermons on “What do the parts of the Mass mean”. My daughter learned a lot and before this, really had no idea what to think about or pray about during many of the different parts of the Mass. So, I think kids need to be informed about the meaning of all parts of the Mass.
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Soldier4Christ
Guest
They also need instruction or guidance to go along with it. Most people will not understand a lot of the Bible the first time they read it. I didn’t start reading the Bible until I was 18, and even then I usually just got frustrated. Granted, I wasn’t really brought up in the Church and at this point in time had only been going to Mass for a short time. But it goes to show that children especially need more than to be just told they should read it, they need solid, understandable teaching to go with it. That’s not just with the Bible, it’s with all things faith-related in Catholic schools. I’m curious…does the change from having primarily religious sisters as teachers in Catholic schools to having mostly lay people as teachers have anything to do with what appears to be a less-well-developed knowledge in the faith of students in Catholic schools? I don’t know, I never went to Catholic school. So maybe I shouldn’t really be asking this, but it’s based on what I’ve heard from quite a few people.
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Cat
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I don’t know about the PP connection, but the major problem I have with Girl Scouts is that the leaders are required to state that they support homosexuality of other leaders. (This is not the exact quote.)
I cannot and will not do that. It breaks my heart, because I would love to be a GS leader. But I won’t say those words, and I don’t agree that lesbians are good role models for girls in an environment such as the Girl Scouts.
The Boy Scouts, OTOH, have just the opposite approach. Leaders are not allowed to be homosexuals. And for this, they have been labelled a “hate group” by the “politically correct,” and have been ostracized and de-funded by organizations that ought to know better, but don’t.
And anniemart, you say that most parents are doing a good job teaching their children about faith and God and Church? Well, if it makes you happy to think that, but as I have said several times in this thread, it’s a fantasy. Decent organizations are condemning one of the finest boy’s organizations (Boy Scouts) ever created. And silly parents LISTEN to this rot, and pull their boys out of the Boy Scouts! U.S. parents are a confused and ignorant group of people. YOU, anniemart, are a rare blessed
exception.
Our parish had to fire a music director when he made it openly clear that he was a practicing homosexual. Would you believe a third of our choir quit? And many families announced in the media that they were leaving the Catholic Church. Many of these were PARENTS who were born and raised Catholic, but obviously never personalized the Lord Jesus Christ. God have mercy on us.
I cannot and will not do that. It breaks my heart, because I would love to be a GS leader. But I won’t say those words, and I don’t agree that lesbians are good role models for girls in an environment such as the Girl Scouts.
The Boy Scouts, OTOH, have just the opposite approach. Leaders are not allowed to be homosexuals. And for this, they have been labelled a “hate group” by the “politically correct,” and have been ostracized and de-funded by organizations that ought to know better, but don’t.
And anniemart, you say that most parents are doing a good job teaching their children about faith and God and Church? Well, if it makes you happy to think that, but as I have said several times in this thread, it’s a fantasy. Decent organizations are condemning one of the finest boy’s organizations (Boy Scouts) ever created. And silly parents LISTEN to this rot, and pull their boys out of the Boy Scouts! U.S. parents are a confused and ignorant group of people. YOU, anniemart, are a rare blessed
exception.
Our parish had to fire a music director when he made it openly clear that he was a practicing homosexual. Would you believe a third of our choir quit? And many families announced in the media that they were leaving the Catholic Church. Many of these were PARENTS who were born and raised Catholic, but obviously never personalized the Lord Jesus Christ. God have mercy on us.
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Sarabande
Guest
I agree that children need instruction when reading the Bible, and as I mentioned in another post I know in Catholic high schools in my area, they do require reading and have the teachers instruct them.
I don’t have an answer to the second part of your comment. I do have to say that I had a priest for a religion teacher in high school who guided us through the study of the Bible. And, boy, did he really know his stuff and did he make sure we did too. Quizzes every day, topic discussions, readings out loud in class, etc. I loved it.
Unless a lay teacher received the same kind of training in the Bible and on faith, I don’t think I would have had as good of an experience. I know most of my lay teachers in gradeschool would not have been able to. They just aren’t taught that in college.
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angelusm
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Young people should know what happens during the mass. It’s good to explain to them why and how bread and wine become Body and Blood of Jesus. Tell them about Eucharistic miracles. I also recommend some charistamic stuff: gift of tongues, healings, prophesying. Gd bless.
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PatienceAndLove
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Isn’t it amazing how almost our entire Faith is expressed in the different parts of the Mass?
I think the most helpful that ever happened for me, regarding the Faith at least, was a class the went through the Catechism parts that explained the Nicene Creed. Where those beliefs came from, the Biblical supports, the outward and inward reflections of those beliefs within Catholics. Just thinking about it makes me excited and breathless about the Faith.
I think a “sermon series” (to borrow a protestant phrase) about the parts of the Mass would be really helpful to teens. There are different prayers that go at different times. And I don’t think people are as aware of Spiritual Communion as they should be.
Perhaps a “Basics” course that runs for a month would be helpful for teens and young adults. A version of RCIA for the already catechized? A refresher?
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Cat
Guest
I think this is a great idea for all ages of Christians!
Right after my husband and I became Catholic, our parish had a mission with Father David Knight, who basically explained every part of the Mass, and also described how we “receive Jesus as our Personal Savior–Catholic Style!” His mission was called **Reaching Jesus: 5 Steps to a Fuller Life. **
Sounds like what several posters have discusses in this thread–knowing Jesus better and understanding the Mass better.
Perhaps someone will contact Father Knight and ask him to come to their parish to give the same mission. I will warn you, he is a bit of a card. Don’t expect solemn and sere!
Once again, I will thank God that I am in the parish I am in. I’ve learned so much and met so many great Christians. There seems to be a real balance in my parish–tradition truly kisses innovation! I would put my parish up for “Best Parish in the World” any time!
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