What Works are Required to Get to Heaven?

[TriuneUnity]

I am a Catholic - and the answer to your question - it appears to me - is very simple; even as our Lord made it very simple - so that a child could understand the way to heaven.

“Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that you believe on him whom he has sent.” (St. John 6:29)

Did not our Lord Jesus Christ live a perfect life of righteousness and does he not have merit enough for 10,000 worlds of wanting souls? Can we not come to him through the faith that he gives - and receive his merit and his righteousness?

“But of him are we in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption.” (1 Cor. 1:30)

Is Jesus Christ not the believers righteousness? Is this not the thrust of St. Paul’s word to the Philippians when he declared:

“But what things were gain to me, those I count loss for Christ. Yes doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ, And be found in him, not having my own righteousness, which is from the deeds of the law, but that which is through the faith of Jesus Christ, the righteousness which is from God through faith.” (Phil. 3:7-9)

If righteousness comes from God and comes through faith - then are not all the works we do, only the manifested works of the merits of Christ Jesus our Lord? Are they not just the manifest fruits of His Holy Spirit - who dwells in us? Isn’t this why our good deeds are called “the fruit of the Spirit?”

We ought to simply believe in Christ - and rest in his righteousness - and by this will come the evidence that we are in him and that he is in us. It will be manifested in good works.

These good works that are done by us give us no grounds for entering into the kingdom of God. It is the merit and righteousness of Christ alone that is our grounds for us entering into the kingdom of God. This righteousness is only manifest in us who beleive on Jesus Christ - for St. Paul says that it is Christ who lives in us - and though we live - it is not us - but Christ in us!

“I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ lives in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness comes by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.” (Gal 2:20, 21)

:clapping:

 

[RisenAgain]

and believing in him means doing everything he says, no??

That is a great question. A tough one for us Catholics.

We want to say that if you do not do everything that Jesus commands us to do - then you do not believe in him - BUT - this is problematic for those of us who are honest with ourselves.

NONE OF US - does everything that Jesus says - wouldn’t you agree? Let’s not be so rigid. We will be judged with the measure with which we judge others!

To believe on Jesus means to believe on Jesus. And we do this by the grace of God - no? This is not to say that there are not certain natural manifestations of our union with Christ. Of course there are! These are the fruits of the Spirit though - and it is by faith that we have receieved his Holy Spirit - no? - (Gal 3:5, 14)

The Holy Spirit - who dwells in us - begins to produce in us the fruit of the Spirit - no? These works are God’s works!

So I am not saying that true Catholics do not manifest good works - however I am saying that these works come after- and as the result of - having peace with God through Jesus Christ. For we cannot receive the Spirit of adoption unitl after we have peace with God - and have been born of God. And it is the Spirit who produces this fruit!

So then - all this has occurred BEFORE we begin to produce good works - for “it is God who works IN US both to will and to do according to His good pleasure” - says St. Paul to the Philippians!

The good works that we do - are not our own - but the merits of Christ, manifested through us - and we have been brought into union with Christ - by faith - no?

So what does it matter about a list of “good works?” These good works do not “get us into heaven” - it is Christ who gets us into heaven - and has told us to believe on HIM!

Christ is ALL! - (Col. 3:11)

 

[Peter_J]

I don’t think that there is a defined “list” of works that gets us into Heaven. I don’t believe that we are good enough, despite how good we think we are or what works we do. People go to Heaven by the grace of God. I will never “deserve” to go to Heaven, and I hope and pray that God allows me into Heaven when I kick the bucket here. But it will be because He loves me and chooses to let me join Him.

All I can do is to TRY to please God, but I often fail miserably. It’s a good thing that He loves me.

“Together we confess: By grace alone, in faith in Christ’s saving work and not because of any merit on our part, we are accepted by God and receive the Holy Spirit, who renews our hearts while equipping and calling us to good works”

 

[emeraldcoast]

I am a Catholic - and the answer to your question - it appears to me - is very simple; even as our Lord made it very simple - so that a child could understand the way to heaven.

“Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that you believe on him whom he has sent.” (St. John 6:29)

Did not our Lord Jesus Christ live a perfect life of righteousness and does he not have merit enough for 10,000 worlds of wanting souls? Can we not come to him through the faith that he gives - and receive his merit and his righteousness?

“But of him are we in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption.” (1 Cor. 1:30)

Is Jesus Christ not the believers righteousness? Is this not the thrust of St. Paul’s word to the Philippians when he declared:

“But what things were gain to me, those I count loss for Christ. Yes doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ, And be found in him, not having my own righteousness, which is from the deeds of the law, but that which is through the faith of Jesus Christ, the righteousness which is from God through faith.” (Phil. 3:7-9)

If righteousness comes from God and comes through faith - then are not all the works we do, only the manifested works of the merits of Christ Jesus our Lord? Are they not just the manifest fruits of His Holy Spirit - who dwells in us? Isn’t this why our good deeds are called “the fruit of the Spirit?”

We ought to simply believe in Christ - and rest in his righteousness - and by this will come the evidence that we are in him and that he is in us. It will be manifested in good works.

These good works that are done by us give us no grounds for entering into the kingdom of God. It is the merit and righteousness of Christ alone that is our grounds for us entering into the kingdom of God. This righteousness is only manifest in us who beleive on Jesus Christ - for St. Paul says that it is Christ who lives in us - and though we live - it is not us - but Christ in us!

“I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ lives in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness comes by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.” (Gal 2:20, 21)

 

[churchcamefirst]

Why is it that “Risenagain” always has to start his posts with “I am a Catholic”, then posts things that sound otherwise…I am leary with this one…

 

[churchcamefirst]

cradle catholic just means you have been Catholic all your life… it doesn’t really say much about where you are, spiritually… in the present…

that is why i went into a little detail as to what my spiritual state is at this time… (and a little of what it was in the p ast…)

I know many Catholics and not one, not one of them refers themselves to “cradle”. It just doesn’t sound right. I have been Catholic since birth, yet I refer myself as Roman Catholic.
And what do you care what others think about you? Be proud you are in the one true faith Christ founded.

 

[distracted]

Hi dis;

Not to oversimplify, but: (1) Love God; (2) Keep His Commandments.

I
P.S. - to be efficacious, both (1) and (2) would require that we be in God’s grace.

i agree… and as for simplicity… well, some people (far too many people in my opinion) do not opt for simplicity… to the detriment of their eternal souls… (or maybe just their sanity ? )… People here on the forums tend to complicate things that really are not complicated…

So simplicity is a good thing…

I wish more people on these forums would believe that…

i don’t think we are to intelectualize Jesus and His Way to the point of… What? Stupidity???

 

[distracted]

I
And what do you care what others think about you? d.

i don’t care… i probably care less what people think of me than most people do… (Well, there are times when i care a little more than at other times… but anyway… i try hard to only care about the will of God… ).

Anyway… there is so much misunderstanding on these forums… its just pathetic…:hypno: so i try to supply whatever information i feel is necessary to facilitate communication…

& knowing where others are coming from, spritiually, helps my endeavors @ communication…

 

[churchcamefirst]

i don’t care… i probably care less what people think of me than most people do… (Well, there are times when i care a little more than at other times… but anyway… i try hard to only care about the will of God… ).

Anyway… there is so much misunderstanding on these forums… its just pathetic…:hypno: so i try to supply whatever information i feel is necessary to facilitate communication…

& knowing where others are coming from, spritiually, helps my endeavors @ communication…

Just be yourself, say what is on your mind, and don’t be afraid of what others think. You only have to answer to God.

 

[seeker777]

One can look at Christianity, especially Catholicism as a requirements based faith. Although, most Christians, especially protestants will disagree.

Catholics must get baptized, must get confirmed, must take communion once a year, must go to confession once a year, must attend weekly Mass, must get married in the Church.

Those are just off the top of my head. Some Protestants demand the requirement of accepting Christ as your peronsal Lord and Saviour, others demand a person be baptized.

So, I would suggest that there are quite a few requirements that are necessary in order to remain in good standing.

How could anyone argue that those listed above are not requirments?

Those are works ( requirements) that seem to be necessary.

 

[distracted]

Just be yourself, say what is on your mind, and don’t be afraid of what others think. You only have to answer to God.

good advice… i try to be myself… sometimes i don’t try very hard… maybe God is speaking through you to me… because… well, Long Story…

anyway… Wow… the more i think about this… the more i see that … i really am not always “myself”… I tend to be myself here on the forums but in other situations… (this one i am thinking about in particular)… i am, for some reason, afraid to be myself…

hmmm… i wonder why???

one of the great mysteries of life…

anyway… it is worth repeating that:

---

You only have to answer to God!!***

 

[distracted]

One can look at Christianity, especially Catholicism as a requirements based faith. Although, most Christians, especially protestants will disagree.

Catholics must get baptized, must get confirmed, must take communion once a year, must go to confession once a year, must attend weekly Mass, must get married in the Church.

Those are just off the top of my head. Some Protestants demand the requirement of accepting Christ as your peronsal Lord and Saviour, others demand a person be baptized.

So, I would suggest that there are quite a few requirements that are necessary in order to remain in good standing.

How could anyone argue that those listed above are not requirments?

Those are works ( requirements) that seem to be necessary.

What religion a re you???

i would just like to make a point: What is wrong with requirements???

When you are employed, your employer expects certain things of you… & you probably don’t complain unless something is beyond your ability to do… or what have you …

Being perfect as our father in Heaven is perfect IS somewhat beyond our abilities… and yet, it isn’t, really…

God would not ask us to do things we are, absolutely spekaing, incapable of doing.

The reason most people aren’t too “perfect’ is because they don’t want to be… they want to remain the same old person… continue doing what tye have always done… easieer tht way… more 'comfortable”… (until they get to the next world, that is.).

anywya… i don’t find these requirements of the Catholilc faith difficult or troublesome…

I love virtually everything about being Catholc… only thing i don’t like is how some Cahtolics don’t act like Catholics…

 

[distracted]

That is a great question. A tough one for us Catholics.

We want to say that if you do not do everything that Jesus commands us to do - then you do not believe in him - BUT - this is problematic for those of us who are honest with ourselves.

:

i got about this far in your post…

i have a hard time dealing with someone who says (now ) he is Catholic… when yesterday… he was proclaiming himself Protestant.

 

[churchcamefirst]

Distracted, if you act another way, people can see right through you. I’ve been told I have more respect from others (not that I’m looking for respect, I’m not), because I simply tell it like it is. If people can’t take it, I don’t care. I only have to answer to God and God only. Be yourself. Once I was afraid to say things to this guy I liked for fear he wouldn’t like me, but when I started not caring what he thought about me things changed. I said what was on my mind and ended up marrying him.
Everyone has stuff going on in their lives, no one is perfect. I have too many dilemmas myself to care what others think about me. You will always find one person who is critical, and it may not even be your fault. People are miserable. Misery loves company.

 

[distracted]

If people can’t take it, I don’t care. I only have to answer to God and God only. Be yourself. Once I was afraid to say things to this guy I liked for fear he wouldn’t like me, but when I started not caring what he thought about me things changed. I said what was on my mind and ended up marrying him.
.

thanks… i kind of have thought about much of whwat you say… but getting it into the depths of my being where it will make a difference… is another story…

It helps to hear these kinds of things, though… even if i have thoght about them… because… well… like i said, i think God is speaking through you because… well… it IS a long story… but … i hate when i am not mysefl with someone… I just absolutely HATE it… and can’t figure out why… because i am myslef totally with others…

now that i think about it, myabe it can be seen as “discrimination”… I am showing i am more comfortable with one or two persons and not with others… Not good…

thank you so much for helping me…

even though you don’t know what situation i am talking about… and even if you didn’t intend to help me… You did!

God bless…

 

[churchcamefirst]

distracted feel free to pm me if you need to talk.

 

[seeker777]

i would just like to make a point: What is wrong with requirements???
anywya… i don’t find these requirements of the Catholilc faith difficult or troublesome…
…

I suppose when your dealing with eternal salvation or eternal damnation, requirements do pose a bit of a pickle.

If one person does not adequatley meet the imposed requirements of their imposed relegion, they run the risk of being condemned to hell for eternity.

If a person is born in India, are raised a Hindu, the RCC teaches that God see’s into their hearts and they still have a hope of salvation.

That kind of nullifies the requirements now doesn’t it? The Hindu, according to the Church, is not held to the same standard as a Roman Catholic, and they still get a hope of salvation, as the RCC teaches that God see’s into their hearts.

Now, the actual Catholic, he must meet the requirements of the Church in order to hope for salvation. Everyone knows that within the Church, the Catholic is held to a higher standard of meeting those requirements, than say a Hindu, or child raised as an Atheist.

Seeing as the Church clearly states that Catholics within the Church are held to a higher standard of moral conduct, would it not be safer for all Catholics to stop teaching the faith to their children, to keep their kids in ignorace, but only to increase their childrens chance for salvation?

I ask this question philisophically, not out of malice. Ignorance seems to be bliss, as non-Catholics have more lattitude, have the hope of salvation and are not held to the same moral compass as those within the Church.

A typical response will be, ’ but the whole point is to have a close relationship with the Lord’. That’s all good, but isn’t the end the actual point? To get to heaven and to avoid the pains of hell…to live forever with God and to avoid damnation?

It does seem that a non-Catholic of good moral character, stands a better chance of getting to heaven based upon their ignorance of the " Catholic Truths", that they are not expected to follow.

By that logic, it seems that the best chance a person has for eternal glory, is to live a good life, but one lived in ignorance. It has been already established, that non-Catholics still have the hope of salvation, but are not required to meet any of the Christian requirements.

The creator of the universe grading people based upon how well they accomplished various religious requirements…but only if they happened to be born into a Catholic family or had the statistically small chance of being converted a Catholic, just seems odd.

It just seems far fetched for an omnipotent being.

My religion? I’m a seeker…not sure what’s " out " there.

I hope you’ve been able to follow my argument.

 

[distracted]

IIf one person does not adequatley meet the imposed requirements of their imposed relegion, they run the risk of being condemned to hell for eternity.

If a person is born in India, are raised a Hindu, the RCC teaches that God see’s into their hearts and they still have a hope of salvation.

.

a person with sin on his soul is going to go to Purgatory before Heaven… assuming he is not in mortal sin… (unrepented). it doesn’t matter whether he is Catholic or Muslim or “nothing” or Hindu or whatever… No impure thing will enter Heaven (Rev 21:27).

It does pay to be Catholic… becaues the Church shows the way to Heaven (purity… holiness)… Catholics endure Purgatory here on Earth… of course Protestants do also… ifthey follow Christ and try to live the way he wants & not the way the world, the flesh and the devil wants… Some saint saidthat Protestants spend more time in Purgatoyr than Catholics… So Hindus undoubtedly spend more time there than Protestants…

Jesus is the only way to Heaven…

I think this experience i had recently w/ a friend is a good example of how to explain sin & how it is seen by God… I know this person who had this “situation” in his life that, technically, wasn’t “right” but didn’t involve actual sin… just the possibility of sin. The person didn’t think he was doing anything wrong… but then when he read the words of Jesus in the Bible, he suddenly was convicted of the wrong-ness of how he was dealing w/ the situation… The passages he read didn’t even address (directly) the situation he faced… but he was convicted because he felt the Holy Spirit telling him “things”…

This is why i worry about Protestants rejecting the Church. They reject Catholic-sounding Scriptures… only accept what they want to believe… and Only the Church has the Real Presence of Christ… If a person spends a lot of time there (more than an hour), he/she will start to see things differently… becaue Jesus sees things differently… than we do…

 

[distracted]

Distracted, if you act another way, people can see right through you. y.

i know what you mean by people seeing through you… as it were… but i would like to make the point that no one ever really sees through another human being… We see the behavir of a person… & we have or opinions about it but we never really know what the person is going trhough… Jesus said we will know them by their fruits so if someone sins, well… we can see enough about that to know that… the person is not choosing “right”… but other than that… we don’t know motives, etc…

Anyway, just thought i would makethat point because i am always feeling misunderstood by people… and getting the feeling that they think they know me so well but they really do not…

 

[distracted]

distracted feel free to pm me if you need to talk.

thank you so much for that offer… which i will take you up on in a dya or so… right now i have very little time… (don’t have my own intenet… have to “borrow” )

God bless…