What would a Catholic America look like?

[PRmerger]

It would be interesting to hear the thoughts of people in the forums regarding what a Catholic America would look like if every family in the US were Catholic and lived out their faith.

Certainly, as we are all sinners, a Catholic America would still not be a *perfect *America, but there would be:

less abortions
less divorce
less poverty
less crime
less substance abuse…

Your thoughts?

 

[puzzleannie]

Catholic as in faithful obedient Catholic, or Catholic as in “Nancy Pelosi, Catholic mother of 5”, or “John Kerry, Catholic congressman”

 

[PRmerger]

Catholic as in faithful obedient Catholic, or Catholic as in “Nancy Pelosi, Catholic mother of 5”, or “John Kerry, Catholic congressman”

:yup:

Catholic as in loyal to Christ’s teaching as revealed by the Magisterium.

 

[jennyr]

Much closer to what America was 100 years ago…

When I read autobiographies of old Americans today, growing up even the ones that are not very religious lived a much more Catholic life than even most Catholics do today…

 

[PRmerger]

Much closer to what America was 100 years ago…

Perhaps. But to be fair, we must acknowledge that today’s society has greatly improved in the following areas:

• racism
• treatment of the disabled
• outlook towards the mentally ill
• appreciation of the dignity of women

 

[blessedtoo]

Perhaps. But to be fair, we must acknowledge that today’s society has greatly improved in the following areas:

• racism
• treatment of the disabled
• outlook towards the mentally ill
• appreciation of the dignity of women

Let me preface my reponse by saying that if we are talking about a Catholic America of 100 years ago, these issues would not have existed. However, since we don’t actually live in heaven yet, I will say that the issue of racism has changed but I think that an argument could be made on either side for whether it’s as substantial as we would like to think. Visit the south for a taste of the real, down home racism. On the flip side, we have massive entitlement programs and a demand for payment of reparations. There is a middle ground somewhere in there, but as is the case with most issues in the US, the far sides of each position get the most attention.

Disabled folks 100 years ago would have been cared for and provided for by their families. There always was and always will be those who find sport in mocking others handicaps and I don’t know how government intervention can change that. Other than mandating businesses have ramps for wheelchairs and accessible bathrooms, how have we changed in our view of disabled folks? I would argue that the very word is overused and applied liberally hence detracting from the very folks who really need services. I also think in our wonderful modern world, people are more willing to warehouse their handicapped relatives so that they can pursue their own lives.

Outlook toward the mentally ill? Yes, now everything is a mental illness. Menstrual cycle a bit too much? PMS Psychosis. A little depressed after having a baby? Post Partum Psychosis. Kill your husband? Battered-woman Syndrome. Make razor cuts on your body? Obsessive Compulsive Disorder. Yes, everything we do today can be excused using the DSM, the Catechism of our secular world.

Dignity of Women? Are u kidding? Yes, the women I see in comercials for Girls Gone Wild videos have absolute dignity. The ladies on that garbage-fest Desperate Housewives make us all look like sweet princesses. Our fab celebrities completely uphold the dignity of women when they bed-surf with their equally dignified male celeb partners. And how about our outspoken feminist sisters? Don’t they make me proud to be a woman, heh? Shall we discuss porn and how glorious women are portrayed, and how respected they are in that industry? And what did women get in return for all this “progress” of the last 100 years? We get full time jobs. How dignified.

 

[havemercy]

Perhaps. But to be fair, we must acknowledge that today’s society has greatly improved in the following areas:

• racism
• treatment of the disabled
• outlook towards the mentally ill
• appreciation of the dignity of women

The last few are debeatable.

 

[Andruschak]

It would be interesting to hear the thoughts of people in the forums regarding what a Catholic America would look like if every family in the US were Catholic and lived out their faith.

Certainly, as we are all sinners, a Catholic America would still not be a *perfect *America, but there would be:

less abortions
less divorce
less poverty
less crime
less substance abuse…

Your thoughts?

Fewer LEGAL abortions, women who could afford it going to Mexico or Canada

Less divorce, increased desertion rates, more children raised in a disfunctional environment

More poverty from more families struggling to raise more children

More crime from unwanted children raised in poverty

More alcoholism and drug addiction from those living a life of “quiet desperation”

But probably an increase in religious callings:thumbsup:

 

[cyprian12]

all social and moral dilemma could be resolved thru God’s church.
Jesus started a church for a reason.

 

[blessedtoo]

Fewer LEGAL abortions, women who could afford it going to Mexico or Canada

Less divorce, increased desertion rates, more children raised in a disfunctional environment
Today we have more divorce, more desertion, less children raised in more single parent and often disfunctional households.
More poverty from more families struggling to raise more children:
More poverty from too many single women trying to raise children post-divorce.
More crime from unwanted children raised in poverty More crime from children being raised without two parents in poverty resulting from single parenthood.
More alcoholism and drug addiction from those living a life of “quiet desperation”
Significantly more addictions (and a million more “classes” of addictions) from folks who are living a life of obvious desperation because they have lost their way and are trying to find happiness in this empty life.But probably an increase in religious callings:thumbsup:

With the exception of your first point, you have pretty much described our current secular culture. One need only look at stats from a mere 50 years ago, when Judeo-Christian values still served at the cornerstone of American culture, to see that your projections are completely absurd. While poverty, desertion and addiction existed, it was certainly not in the numbers we see today. Besides, we are talking about a Catholic society which follows ACTUAL Catholic teaching.

 

[Andruschak]

. Besides, we are talking about a Catholic society which follows ACTUAL Catholic teaching.

And exactly how would this Catholic Society be imposed on non-Catholics who do not agree with the teachings of the Church? Not trying to start a flame war, just curious.

 

[blessedtoo]

Dear heart, this is an exercise in fantasy, so don’t be alarmed. It’s not a call to arms or Catholic fatwah. We’re just day dreaming.

 

[puzzleannie]

Let me preface my reponse by saying that if we are talking about a Catholic America of 100 years ago, these issues would not have existed. .

actually all those issues did exist 100 years ago. In fact, one of they key issues for early feminists was battling laws that gave fathers dictatorial powers over wives and children, even the to point of ordering abortions, and one of the first laws pushed by early feminists was to make abortion illegal. The history of feminism in this country is indeed strange and you are quite right about the fruits of a movement which changed radically from a sisterhood to a coven.

 

[wabrams]

Visit the south for a taste of the real, down home racism.

A lot of self-righteous talk from your oh-so progressive city of Seattle. I from the deep south and I’m offended by that racist comment you made.

 

[Catholic90]

Much closer to what America was 100 years ago…

When I read autobiographies of old Americans today, growing up even the ones that are not very religious lived a much more Catholic life than even most Catholics do today…

Women were property.
Women could be beaten, legally.
Women had no legal rights.

No so good, IMO.

 

[rr1213]

The only theocracy that would be worth living in is the one ruled by Christ the King after his Second Coming. Any theocracy prior to that time would be run by sinful men and sinful men are corrupted by power.

 

[PRmerger]

Other than mandating businesses have ramps for wheelchairs and accessible bathrooms, how have we changed in our view of disabled folks?

Let me preface my response by saying that I cited the above examples of improvements in today’s society from Peter Kreeft (Catholic philospher extraordinaire). While I am not a social scientist, historian or even an English major, I will say that if one reads Charles Dickens’ novels, or Upton Sinclair’s “The Jungle”, we can be thankful we don’t live in the societies depicted therein. (Whether the novels are actually set 100 years ago is beside the point.)

Outlook toward the mentally ill?

Again, I am not a historian, but I’m guessing that if you had a choice to be put into a mental asylum 100 years ago vs today, you’d choose today.

Dignity of Women? Are u kidding? Yes, the women I see in comercials for Girls Gone Wild videos have absolute dignity. The ladies on that garbage-fest Desperate Housewives make us all look like sweet princesses. Our fab celebrities completely uphold the dignity of women when they bed-surf with their equally dignified male celeb partners. And how about our outspoken feminist sisters? Don’t they make me proud to be a woman, heh? Shall we discuss porn and how glorious women are portrayed, and how respected they are in that industry? And what did women get in return for all this “progress” of the last 100 years? We get full time jobs. How dignified.

Point well made.

I was thinking more about women who suffered from domestic violence and had no recourse, as society turned a blind eye to them. Women who cooked, cleaned, raised the children without a helping hand from their husbands. Women who wanted to be physicians, professors, scientists and had to fight their families/society in order to do so…

I do think that it was indeed necessary for Pope John Paul II to proclaim the “feminine genius” in Mulieris Dignitatem in order to clarify God’s teaching on the dignity of women.

 

[PRmerger]

Fewer LEGAL abortions, women who could afford it going to Mexico or Canada

Less divorce, increased desertion rates, more children raised in a disfunctional environment

More poverty from more families struggling to raise more children

More crime from unwanted children raised in poverty

More alcoholism and drug addiction from those living a life of “quiet desperation”

But probably an increase in religious callings:thumbsup:

Remember, I gave the caveat that in this Catholic America everyone lived out their faith

And I echo **blessedtoo’s **comments that what you cited above is clearly an example of today’s secular society! (with the exception of an increase in religious vocations)

 

[Sam88]

The only theocracy that would be worth living in is the one ruled by Christ the King after his Second Coming. Any theocracy prior to that time would be run by sinful men and sinful men are corrupted by power.

Who said anything about theocracy? It seems clear to me that we would be far better off if our political leaders were predominantly faithful practicing Catholics. We would also be better off if our political leaders were predominantly faithful practicing Protestants.

 

[BLB_Oregon]

It depends on whether you meant an America with lots of practicing Catholics or an America being controlled by Catholics in government.

The first, well, judging by this forum, things could get a bit scrupulous, among other things, but if charity prevails there are worse problems to have.

The second give me pause, for many, many reasons. If a few people manage to establish an oligarchy in a democracy, even for the best of reason, the long-term results are usually not pretty.

Although we have a duty to vote and add a sane perspective to the civic discourse and some of us have a vocation to serve in government, our main job to change hearts, one at a time, by the exercise of love. We must look back into our history and remember the pitfalls in putting power before service.

This is not something we need to dream about. We have our work to do, and can trust that God will accomplish what He has set out to do. While something tells me that taking over the government isn’t in those cards, I would not have a problem with it if the Church was able to keep the main thing the main thing. In a situation such as you describe, that could become our main work.

In other words, we would still have much work to do. That much isn’t going to change.