What would a catholic world look like?

[Guyonthestreet]

Imagine there was no other denomination apart from catholicism in the world.

And every living person was a catholic - at least in name.

What would the world look like?

There would still be natural disasters etc obviously … but would there be poverty?

Would there be war?

Would there hunger?

Would there be injustice?

Would be world be a poorer place without the Mormons, Lutherans, Methodists, Jews, Hindus, Orthodox…?

I wonder …

 

[AJTheMan]

Imagine there was no other denomination apart from catholicism in the world.

And every living person was a catholic - at least in name.

What would the world look like?

There would still be natural disasters etc obviously … but would there be poverty?

Would there be war?

Would there hunger?

Would there be injustice?

Would be world be a poorer place without the Mormons, Lutherans, Methodists, Jews, Hindus, Orthodox…?

I wonder …

Well, when people ask these questions, I try not to just throw around answers without any basis behind them. I think the best example of a Catholic world would Western Europe, in the early middle ages before the reformation. Much of the characteristics of the aforementioned period would carry over. In a modern day Catholic world, Monarchy would be the main form of government in Europe and the Americas. [Divine Right of Kings] Catholicism would be the compulsory religion of the countries of Europe and colonies of the Americas.[State Religion] Citizens deemed heretical (which could be defined by the king or by the pope) would be jailed or executed. Some, though not all, scientific progress would be impeded. Like I said, though, I can only look to history to answer this question. Look at the Early Middle ages. This was a time in which no religion other than Catholicism enjoyed favor in western Europe.

A good example of a Mormon World would be the early history of Utah. Brigham Young served as both President of the LDS and Governor of the Utah Territory. From this, I would think that some sort of system of Theocracy would be a reasonable assumption. Laws would be formed against soft drinks, cigarettes, alcohol, blacks, and crimes deemed heretical. In other words, if the early history of Utah says anything about the history of a current day Mormon World, then it would be like Catholic Europe, only with the monarch being the President of LDS and the official religion being Mormonism.

For a good look into a Lutheran World, look to the post-reformation period of Scandinavia. (Sweden, Norway, Denmark)

A Methodist world would very closely resemble the actual (real world) history of England. In it’s earliest stages, Methodism was merely a movement within the Church of England to more closely study the bible.

For an ideal Jewish state, Israel is probably a good study. (Although, I feel like Israel has been more impacted by the politics of Great Britain than it has it’s Jewish identity) So maybe just reading the Tanakh would be a better idea.

With the hindus, you have the same problem as Israel. The current state of India is more reflective of the government of Great Britain than anything. Considering the diversity of Ethnic Groups in India, I would bet that the formation of many smaller countries inside the Indian Subcontinent would be more accurate.

Orthodox? Look up Pre-soviet Russia.

 

[bpbasilphx]

Not much different from this one, because there still will be people who live and believe their faith–and those who do not practice it.

The very fact there’s confession should tell you how imperfect a Catholic world would be.

 

[yellowbird]

There are countries that are mainly Catholic… Brazil for instance. Many are Catholic in name only though. That pesky free-will…

Not sure it would make a difference… a person who is Catholic in name only isn’t much different from a person who isn’t Catholic at all … ? They might still be a good person… or maybe not. Just like people in general.

 

[SteveVH]

It would look much the same as it does today, much the same as our Church looks today. We didn’t need a reformation of the Church, we need a reformation of lives, first and foremost Catholic lives.

 

[dmelosi]

Imagine there was no other denomination apart from catholicism in the world.

And every living person was a catholic - at least in name.

What would the world look like?

There would still be natural disasters etc obviously … but would there be poverty?

Would there be war?

Would there hunger?

Would there be injustice?

Would be world be a poorer place without the Mormons, Lutherans, Methodists, Jews, Hindus, Orthodox…?

I wonder …

An interesting question would be one where you asked What would a world look like filled with Catholics that lived what their faith teaches?

 

[Deconi]

Prior to the Reformation, the majority of the world was Catholic, yet the landscape of history is littered with human drama and struggle, including wars, slavery, emperical / kingdom expansion and outright dictatorships. This does not even include the ‘religious’ dissentions and differences resulting in bickering communities of differing understandings, beliefs, practices and unbeliefs.

Within The Church herself are sinners that when they ascend to levels of influence corrupt not only the faith, but the ear of governments.

The difference was the time-delay of exchanging messages and information which results in silos of corruted existence…within Catholicism and without her scope. Examples would be Bishops or kings who exert their own versions of Catholicism on the masses in the absence of outside interference from Rome or without the timely knowledge of Rome to despatch a ‘correction’ or reminder of the Catholic teachings.

Dynastic rulers also added to the mix who prefer their own religions or beliefs.

HOWEVER, with the advent of the internet, all this can change, although we already have examples of countries making wholesale ‘bans’ of such mechanics of information traffic. Not to mention the ‘pollution’ of the information that now flies around the world or available in cyberspace. But the majority of Christians, for instance, can now access and examine these things, and although still fraught with ‘danger,’ the information about the truth of Christ and/or His Church, is available 24/7 for the enquirer to examine.

I see the majority of the globe being better informed of Catholicism in a generation, or a couple of generations. The Devil and his minions will have their work cut out for them, but he has been at it long time and is a master crafter…and there is that book of Revelations, that seem to suggest that not all the world will be Catholic when The Last Pope arrives!

 

[CHESTERTONRULES]

Imagine there was no other denomination apart from catholicism in the world.

And every living person was a catholic - at least in name.

What would the world look like?

There would still be natural disasters etc obviously … but would there be poverty?

Would there be war?

Would there hunger?

Would there be injustice?

Would be world be a poorer place without the Mormons, Lutherans, Methodists, Jews, Hindus, Orthodox…?

I wonder …

Catholics are sinners just like everyone else, but I think the world would be a better place if we were all going to confession at least once a month!

(very good question, by the way)

 

[John_Lazarus]

Well, for one thing, there’s be more fish choices on Friday restaurant menus.

No retail stores open on Sunday (or on Saturday evening, for that matter).

More church bells pealing on Sunday morning.

Starting the day – at work, in school, etc – with public prayer. Not just the Lord’s Prayer, but the Hail Mary, Hail Holy Queen, etc.

In May, blue ribbons on every lapel. In June, red. And editions of the Canadian Forces Dress Instructions instructing you where to place yours on your Service Dress jacket. “Yo, Sarge, does my Miraculous Medal hang to the left or right of my jump wings?”

Church Parades!

Nobody saying “Season’s Greetings”.

Paramedic Padres. “Start an IV with D5W and give Extreme Unction – stat!”

OK, maybe not the last one…

 

[yellowbird]

Well, for one thing, there’s be more fish choices on Friday restaurant menus.

No retail stores open on Sunday (or on Saturday evening, for that matter).

More church bells pealing on Sunday morning.

Starting the day – at work, in school, etc – with public prayer. Not just the Lord’s Prayer, but the Hail Mary, Hail Holy Queen, etc.

In May, blue ribbons on every lapel. In June, red. And editions of the Canadian Forces Dress Instructions instructing you where to place yours on your Service Dress jacket. “Yo, Sarge, does my Miraculous Medal hang to the left or right of my jump wings?”

Church Parades!

Nobody saying “Season’s Greetings”.

Paramedic Padres. “Start an IV with D5W and give Extreme Unction – stat!”

OK, maybe not the last one…

So this makes me !!!

 

[wisdomseeker]

Imagine there was no other denomination apart from catholicism in the world.

And every living person was a catholic - at least in name.

What would the world look like?

There would still be natural disasters etc obviously … but would there be poverty?

Would there be war?

Would there hunger?

Would there be injustice?

Would be world be a poorer place without the Mormons, Lutherans, Methodists, Jews, Hindus, Orthodox…?

I wonder …

if everybody believed what teh Church teaches and obey, it would be a better world to all.
but we know that not everyone believed and that were those who always seek to destroy the Church. it could not be just one side. Jesus wanted everyone to believe that is His intent but He knew that not everyone would. if it was hard for those who saw Him face to face to believe, imagine just how would be, when He was no longer here.

**St. Clement of Rome

[47, 6] Shameful, beloved, extremely shameful, and unworthy of your training in Christ, is the report that on account of one or two persons the well established and ancient Church of the Corinthians is in revolt against the presbyters. And this report has come not only to us, but even to those professing other faiths than ours, so that by your folly you heap blasphemies on the name of the Lord, and create a danger for yourselves.**

 

[Contarini]

Imagine there was no other denomination apart from catholicism in the world.

And every living person was a catholic - at least in name.

What would the world look like?

There would still be natural disasters etc obviously … but would there be poverty?

Would there be war?

Would there hunger?

Would there be injustice?

Would be world be a poorer place without the Mormons, Lutherans, Methodists, Jews, Hindus, Orthodox…?

I wonder …

Robert Hugh Benson’s *The Dawn of All *tries to imagine such a world (well, there are still some non-Catholics, but Catholicism is dominant). I find the world described there horrifying. But some folks on this forum may find it inspiring (I will fight such people with every fibre of my being, as I will their Muslim and secularist and Protestant counterparts).

Edwin

 

[Guyonthestreet]

Robert Hugh Benson’s *The Dawn of All *tries to imagine such a world (well, there are still some non-Catholics, but Catholicism is dominant). I find the world described there horrifying. But some folks on this forum may find it inspiring (I will fight such people with every fibre of my being, as I will their Muslim and secularist and Protestant counterparts).

Edwin

What is so horrifying about it? This touches on the part of my post where I’m wondering if the world would be a poorer place without other denominations?

 

[AngloCatholic1]

What would a Catholic world look like?

Well, I can say one thing… it would make a heck of a lot more sense, even if not everyone was actively practicing the faith. Legislators would actually draft (and pass) laws that encourage Christian morality. Many more families would stay together than they do now. Families would be larger. Sundays would be spent at picnics and visiting extended family, rather than shopping. People would be a little less material, and a little more spiritual in their values. More women would stay home and look after their children, rather than work for someone else. Streets would be a lot safer because, although everyone isn’t actively practicing the faith, at least they all agree on what’s right and what’s wrong. That’s a huge start, for sure. Public schools would be more efficient for the same reason. Ditto the businesses. Stress and associated diseases would dissipate. Government (and taxes) would be smaller, and the volunteering greater. Nobody could find any reason to start a “Holy War”. Hundreds of millions of women in the middle east could dress like ladies instead of wearing bedsheets over their heads. And that’s just the beginning.

 

[Guyonthestreet]

What would a Catholic world look like?

Well, I can say one thing… it would make a heck of a lot more sense, even if not everyone was actively practicing the faith. Legislators would actually draft (and pass) laws that encourage Christian morality. Many more families would stay together than they do now. Families would be larger. Sundays would be spent at picnics and visiting extended family, rather than shopping. People would be a little less material, and a little more spiritual in their values. More women would stay home and look after their children, rather than work for someone else. Streets would be a lot safer because, although everyone isn’t actively practicing the faith, at least they all agree on what’s right and what’s wrong. That’s a huge start, for sure. Public schools would be more efficient for the same reason. Ditto the businesses. Stress and associated diseases would dissipate. Government (and taxes) would be smaller, and the volunteering greater. Nobody could find any reason to start a “Holy War”. Hundreds of millions of women in the middle east could dress like ladies instead of wearing bedsheets over their heads. And that’s just the beginning.

Interesting points.

I think I’m right in saying that Ireland and Italy are majority catholic countries.

Why do you think then they have 24/7 shopping?

When it started, surely people could have voted with their feet and not support the stores opening on Sunday. The unions supporting workers not to have to go into work (Im referring to stores, cinemas etc not essential services) and thereby block all day seven day a week shopping in these catholic countries?

Why do you think it is that family size is shrinking, not growing?

Is it necessarily better than families stay together whatever the cost?

 

[Contarini]

What is so horrifying about it?

Being trapped inside the fantasies of Monsignor Benson is horrifying, but I don’t really want to try to explain how unless you have read the book. I find Benson fascinating, but his picture of Catholicism produces in my a sense of panicked claustrophobia. It’s not quite as hellish as LaHaye and Jenkins’ heaven, but it’s about half as bad. And that’s bad enough.

I think part of my horror stems from the sense that all the big questions have been answered and life has therefore lost a lot of its meaning, except no doubt as a preparation for eternity. If you think that the purpose of life is to “save your soul,” then no doubt the idea of a world where the path to salvation is a broad corridor illuminated by bright electric light-bulbs, with all the wrong paths clogged by cobwebs and smelling of mold, appeals to you. But I feel about it much as I feel about Huxley’s *Brave New World, *because I believe with Keats that the world is a “vale of soul-making.” Indeed, I think that to “save one’s soul” is to “make one’s soul,” which is why abortion and infanticide are not holy acts.

Benson’s treatment of the execution of heretics is particularly appalling because of the means he takes to sanitize it. The one heretic in his future Catholic society (there are still people who reject the Church altogether) is a pious priest who insists on maintaining an extremely abstruse theological point (I can’t even remember what it is) that has been condemned by the Church, while refusing to leave the Church. So he is executed. This helps underlie how phantasmal the issues in Benson’s Catholic world have become. (The atheists/anarchists who want to blow up Rome, until the Pope confronts them unarmed and cows them with his moral authority, seem relatively realistic–as, for that matter, does the Pope.)

Note that I’m talking about Benson’s vision of a Catholic world. One can hope that a better alternative is possible. If you know of an imaginative portrayal of such a world that beats Benson’s, let me know. But I suspect that an entirely Christian (let alone entirely Catholic) world is impossible to imagine without producing an unintentional dystopia like Benson’s. And this for good reason: it’s an eschatological reality that is either impossible or monstrous apart from the personal reign of the glorified Christ.

Until the Eschaton, Christians need non-Christians (and Catholics need non-Catholics–Orthodox need non-Orthodox, and Calvinists need non-Calvinists too, but I’d really rather not think about the spectacle of a Calvinist world, let alone a fundamentalist world–most other Christian churches don’t really hope for a world made up only of them). Because until then, our embodiment (and even our imagined embodiment) of the Truth is going to be hopelessly inadequate, so that we need alternative visions (imagined and embodied) to keep our sinfulness in check and remind us of the things we leave out. This may be a difficult thing for conservative Catholics to accept. Which is one of the main reasons I remain not in communion with Rome–I cannot accept a view of the Church that refuses to describe the Church herself as sinful and flawed. (I know that one can recognize the truth of what I say above while still maintaining that the Church is in a mystical sense sinless and perfect. But I have problems with this position.)

Edwin

 

[Usbek_de_Perse]

Prior to the Reformation, the majority of the world was Catholic

Not exactly. The majority of Christendom was Catholic, but that remains true today. Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, and animist religions had and have now significant parts of the world’s population.

 

[Guyonthestreet]

So, apart from a few, it seems most people here don’t have a view on what a catholic world would look like.

Maybe it wouldn’t be so different to the world we have today.

Which is interesting - because you then have to ask why not?

But on the other hand, as we are all sinners, perhaps a dominant demonination wouldn’t make very much difference to the way we live anyhows.

 

[littlequestion]

What would it look like? I grew up in one. Seriously. I did not know they let Protestants into the country (Massachusetts! Land of the Puritans!) until I was twelve years old and had to contemplate going to public high school. There were rumors that my elder sister married a protestant but I did not beleive them because her mother-in-law (Anglican) had a statue of Mary and one of St Francis.

Sooo…

We centered on family. Our family, with five childrn of which I was the fourth, was smaller than some others. Our neighborhood was 100% Catholic and we children did things like gather flowers to bring to the Virgin Mary in May, when the nuns placed vases around her statue for us to fill. Our parents worked in the mills. My dad went to a distant city to work but he and his friends chartered a bus service so that they didn’t have to drive the 90-minute commute. My aunts and some of the other women in the neighborhood walked over to the shoe factory and at 3 or 4 when they got out, my mother, who only worked sometimes, would make sure coffee and pastries were ready so they could stop by our house and visit.

Visiting conversations included some heated arguments as I remember over whether it meant someone was going to die if a pigeon landed on the window sill or if it actually had to fly onto the porch… Neighbors spoke differnt languages but if I went to my friend’s church for Mass instead of my own, the Latin was the same. We did not identify each other by class or skin, but by ethnicity: the Polish, Irish, or French parish. We all wore uniforms but got to shine on “colored dress” days.

The nuns were consulted about whether we had vocations, and that did not necessarily mean being priest or nun ourselves, it meant what were we to be brought up to do. They set me on the road to being an artist very early and my brother to being a priest. The parents in the neighborhood did not spend money on kids except at holiday time, and we all celebrated the same holidays of Christmas, Easter, etc. Money was not an issue about not spending a lot on kids, you just weren’t supposed to spoil them. Toys were given according to age, and things like make-up or nylon stockings for girls, BB guns and fishing poles for boys, were ritual gifts at the right age. We kids in the neighborhood knew what birthdays were supposed to result in what gifts.

When the fires of the late sixties began and they were trying to clear out our nighborhoods, we fought. The men confronted the police and the fire departments at the doors and refused to evacuate so they could let our houses burn. My mother and a neighbor gathered all the women and children into a room and we started the rosaries. We said the rosary for about twelve hours while the factories burned and I understood, being 12, what it meant when they said “we’re not leaving”. (I thought about it a lot when Pres Clinton murdered the children of Waco)

You can read about those fires and the ethnic cleansing of the Catholic neighborhoods in “Slaughter of the Cities”, a book I have not read but have been told is about that history that we lived.

That is what a Catholic world looks like. From season to season we had our processions and our parish festivals, our picnics and bazaars and recitals, and when that world was on fire, we picked up our rosaries.

The secular society thinks it destroyed our world, but it did not. The Latin Mass is back and rosaries are more popular than ever.

 

[KathleenGee]

I would think the best example of a Catholic world is SE Italy, 2010.