What would be wrong with parishes offering reconciliation sacrament by phone?

[banished]

What?!?!

Honest to goodness your comments are making no sense to me. Yes it’s our choice to go to confession face to face or behind a screen. Your point?

I’m not sure why a priest would “confess” to you. You lack the authority to absolve sin. I don’t know what to make about your canon law comment, etc.

OhMalley, your heart is hardened, so of course you don’t understand. But when I look into the eyes of the priest, I can see a hint of softening. So, what is wrong with praying for the priest who I am confessing to?

Richard

 

[Bruised_Reed]

I disagree. Some people are incarcerated and even imprisoned in their own homes by abusive and controlling people in their lives. You don’t have the full picture, computer geek.

I do believe that the Sacrament of Confession is given regularly to inmates via telephone with a solid glass partition between the priest and the inmate.

If it were written dogma, then it would have to state, “a telephone line…no longer than 5 feet…” and I really don’t think that is written. Let’s look at the spirit of the sacrament and not the letter of the law, especially if it’s not really written.

If technology to amplify your voice were against the Magisterium, then we couldn’t use microphones in the Church.

If you are so sure about this, please provide the canon law that explains it. It would be in there. I’m not saying it’s not in there, but give people some credit for not being idiots just for asking the question.

It (confession through the glass) is still in person and that’s what makes the sacrament possible here.

 

[Bruised_Reed]

The can of worms is already open so I’m interested in this: How would tele-confession work?
Can you just call whenever or do you need to make an appointment or are there specific times to call?
Are you put on hold while others are confessing?
What if time runs out before they get to you? do you just get cut off like when you call a radio station? Or is does someone come on the line to make another appointment for you?
What kind of privacy assurance is in place? What if the caller (confessee?) uses a cordless phone (which would be contraindicated) and someone overhears and spreads what is heard? Caller took the risk but blames the priest for breaking the seal of the confessional.
Where are we getting these priests? How are they chosen? Are they anonymous, too/ Are they in your city, diocese, etc.
What if you misdial? (YIkes!)
What about crank callers tying up the lines?

Yeah, this will work.

 

[AJV]

Well I for one think it’s a great idea!

In fact, I say, lets expand on it. Marriage for instance. With todays busy schedules taking time out for something as time consuming, quite frankly archaic and impractical as an actual Marriage ceremony could cause a big problem. Solution, telephone marriage. Heck, lets do it one better, text msg. marriages:thumbsup: Just think of all the advantages. No neeed to stop what you are doing, whatever it is and with the text abbreviations you could have the ceremony done in little more than a minute:dancing:

Truly a win win situation

Just to add some more fuel to the fire…

I know you were probably being sarcastic, but it is conceivable that if it were a form of expressing a contract, then by the will and command of the Church, for grave reason, such marriage could be allowed and would be valid. Before 1917, at least since the Council of Trent it was permissible to contract marriage by a letter: since 191, canon law does not allow for it, and so such marriages are invalid.

Just to note, though: the reason for this cannot be applied fully to the Sacrament of Reconciliation. The rules for marriage are separate from those of the other sacraments, In this case, it is possible to do this for marriage because the sacrament lies in the convenant expressed through the contract between a man and a woman. The Church lays down the rules for the establishment of this contract, and so, as I wrote above, currently since 1917 She does not accept letters, and so forth as a means to establish this contract. But if She did, and She could, then it would be valid.

 

[Tamsulosin]

Like you suggest many details have to be worked out.
When you dial your bank for example, there are security features in place, or anybody could be transferring your money at their will.
Regarding time running out before they get to you, it happens at the confessional too… This would ideally be a 24 hour hotline.Are hotlines private?Like suicide ones? What if someone overhears? Is it private when you call your doctor and tell him or her what is happening to you?What if someone overheards,who do you sue?
Regarding privacy, actually the priest in the confessional can see you perfectly, because you are in the lighted room.He is in the dark.
If a person stays inside the box too long, or comes out crying,you could assume something very serious he or she committed.Not too private.More privacy at home.
I agree you must use a land phone not a cellular phone.
This system would be restricted to specific cases,like watching Mass in TV for a homebound, since the priest could not go to all homes to celebrate Mass, only to give communion.It is not the ideal way, I accept, but second best.

 

[Sabda]

Like you suggest many details have to be worked out.
When you dial your bank for example, there are security features in place, or anybody could be transferring your money at their will.
Regarding time running out before they get to you, it happens at the confessional too… This would ideally be a 24 hour hotline.Are hotlines private?Like suicide ones? What if someone overhears? Is it private when you call your doctor and tell him or her what is happening to you?What if someone overheards,who do you sue?
Regarding privacy, actually the priest in the confessional can see you perfectly, because you are in the lighted room.He is in the dark.
If a person stays inside the box too long, or comes out crying,you could assume something very serious he or she committed.Not too private.More privacy at home.
I agree you must use a land phone not a cellular phone.
This system would be restricted to specific cases,like watching Mass in TV for a homebound, since the priest could not go to all homes to celebrate Mass, only to give communion.It is not the ideal way, I accept, but second best.

Problem is systems like that cost money. Are the parishes going to have enough to cover the cost? I’m not sure how much a system like that cost but I doubt it’s cheap.

Besides as the old saying goes. If you have something important to say don’t say it over the phone.

 

[ComputerGeek25]

I disagree. Some people are incarcerated and even imprisoned in their own homes by abusive and controlling people in their lives. You don’t have the full picture, computer geek.

I do believe that the Sacrament of Confession is given regularly to inmates via telephone with a solid glass partition between the priest and the inmate.

If it were written dogma, then it would have to state, “a telephone line…no longer than 5 feet…” and I really don’t think that is written. Let’s look at the spirit of the sacrament and not the letter of the law, especially if it’s not really written.

If technology to amplify your voice were against the Magisterium, then we couldn’t use microphones in the Church.

If you are so sure about this, please provide the canon law that explains it. It would be in there. I’m not saying it’s not in there, but give people some credit for not being idiots just for asking the question.

How is this any different than confessing behind “the screen”?

 

[Sabda]

Like you suggest many details have to be worked out.
When you dial your bank for example, there are security features in place, or anybody could be transferring your money at their will.
Regarding time running out before they get to you, it happens at the confessional too… This would ideally be a 24 hour hotline.Are hotlines private?Like suicide ones? What if someone overhears? Is it private when you call your doctor and tell him or her what is happening to you?What if someone overheards,who do you sue?
**Regarding privacy, actually the priest in the confessional can see you perfectly, because you are in the lighted room.He is in the dark.**If a person stays inside the box too long, or comes out crying,you could assume something very serious he or she committed.Not too private.More privacy at home.
I agree you must use a land phone not a cellular phone.
This system would be restricted to specific cases,like watching Mass in TV for a homebound, since the priest could not go to all homes to celebrate Mass, only to give communion.It is not the ideal way, I accept, but second best.

Every parish I have been in it’s been just the opposite. If your behind the screen your in the dark the priest is in the light. If sitting facing the priest your both in the light.

 

[banished]

OhMalley, your heart is hardened, so of course you don’t understand. But when I look into the eyes of the priest, I can see a hint of softening. So, what is wrong with praying for the priest who I am confessing to?

Richard

OhMallley,

I just got back from the store, and had a chance to think it over. Maybe your heart is not hardened after all. I think that you missed the fact that James 5:16 is not a challenge to the Sacraments or the Catholic Church. It’s simply is a way for Christians to confess their sins one to another and be fogiven. And in some cases this can relate to sickness and healing.

James is thought of as being the half-brother of Jesus, so maybe his epistle is not as popular on the Catholic side of the fence? He was a very strict Jew, and the Jewish Christians were scattered by persecution when it was written.

Richard

 

[Tamsulosin]

Every parish I have been in it’s been just the opposite. If your behind the screen your in the dark the priest is in the light. If sitting facing the priest your both in the light.

You are in the light so that you see your way in the room, and you do not trip and fall.
You may need to read from your prayer book the act of contrition.Some people cannot memorize it.
You are also in the light for the priest protection,should any person appear menacing or dangerous.He needs to see what he is dealing with.

 

[AHapka]

I agree you must use a land phone not a cellular phone.

Umm…why? I can just as easily tap into your land line phone as I could a cell phone. Easier, in fact, since most cell phone calls are digital and harder to hack. Your regular phone is analog when it leaves the house. So all I’d need is to tap into the wires leaving your house, and a small short range FM transmitter (like some people use to play their iPods over their car stereo), and I could hear every phone call you make.

Though I’ll admit, your proposal could lead to all kinds of funny situations:

I’m in a restaurant when I hear a priest on his cell phone saying “and I absolve you of your sins in the name of…”

Or, I’m driving down the road and get mad and cut another driver off. Thinking quickly, I get out the cell phone and call up the priest “I just cut another person off driving, can I get a quick confession?”

Or…forgive me father, for I have sinned (take a bite out of burger), it has been two weeks since my last confession (stuff I few fries in there), I have committed the sin of xxxx… Priest, I’m sorry son, but I can’t hear what you are saying with your mouth full.

In all seriousness, part of a priests job in the confessional is to judge the SINCERITY and REPENTANCE of the penitent. Non-verbal (i.e. body language) tells the priest just as much (if not more in some cases) as to whether or not the penitent is properly disposed to receive absolution. Telephones are used in rare cases when the priest and penitent are physically present but assistance is needed with hearing (i.e. hard of hearing, inmate, etc). The priest can still monitor the body language.

Part of Christian charity would be for me to take someone to confession who is not otherwise able to go…

 

[Sr_Sally]

And I need to add:what about the people that live in the countryside, maybe a village 30, 50 miles away from the nearest church.That would be another case when confession by phone could be permissible.
It would not be like for us, a hop in the car and" be back in an hour I’m going to confession dear".
Can’t some of you see beyond your easy realities?Not every catholic is ambulatory, lives in a cosmopolitan area with a car at their disposal,and a church nearby.
The church is supposed to exist to help souls achieve sanctity,not put roadblocks.
Tam

This has always been true. And people did struggle to get to a church and the priests struggled to get to those who were homebound. But it happened. Today with cars, phones, etc it is easier for a homebound person to get a priest to visit. But it is still not right that they should be denied the personal presence of a priest because there could be telephone confession.

 

[AHapka]

Also, one must consider that St. Padre Pio once bi-located to hear the confession of a dying person in the mountains.

This would heavily support the position that a priest must be present in person.

 

[banished]

OhMallley,

I just got back from the store, and had a chance to think it over. Maybe your heart is not hardened after all. I think that you missed the fact that James 5:16 is not a challenge to the Sacraments or the Catholic Church. It’s simply is a way for Christians to confess their sins one to another and be fogiven. And in some cases this can relate to sickness and healing.

James is thought of as being the half-brother of Jesus, so maybe his epistle is not as popular on the Catholic side of the fence? He was a very strict Jew, and the Jewish Christians were scattered by persecution when it was written.

Richard

ohMally,

This is the third time I came back to this. I forgot to mention that James 5:14 which is only 2 verses above the verse that I use to pray one to another for the forgivness of sin. (verse 16) is the verse used by the Council of Trent as the base of the Sacrament of Anointing of the Sick.

With those two verses being so close it’s easy to assume that verse 16 is part of the Sacrament, but it isn’t.

I hope I got it straight now?

Richard

 

[Bruised_Reed]

You are in the light so that you see your way in the room, and you do not trip and fall.
You may need to read from your prayer book the act of contrition.Some people cannot memorize it.
You are also in the light for the priest protection,should any person appear menacing or dangerous.He needs to see what he is dealing with.

I’ve been to confession at a lot of different churches and with very few exceptions the penitent is in the dark. It’s almost completely dark until the the priest moves the screen and I get light from the other side. If you have had different experiences perhaps you belong to or have visited parishes that have introduced innovations to the Sacraments. That’s where my exceptions come from.

 

[Seatuck]

The sacrament of confession requires the physical presence of the priest and the penitent," he said in a telephone interview. “Privacy is absolutely not guaranteed on Internet, and there is no certainty as to the identity of the two parties to the communication. You can’t have confession by e-mail, any more than you can have it by telephone or letter.”

This was from an article asking about internet confessions but it I thought it appropriate.

pcworld.com/article/51923/vatican_rules_out_online_confessions.html

 

[Sr_Sally]

I’ve been to confession at a lot of different churches and with very few exceptions the penitent is in the dark. It’s almost completely dark until the the priest moves the screen and I get light from the other side. If you have had different experiences perhaps you belong to or have visited parishes that have introduced innovations to the Sacraments. That’s where my exceptions come from.

I have also been to confession in many churches and there is always light on the penitent’s side. I don’t think that you can say that your own experience is the only normative one and anyone else’s in “innovative.”

 

[Bruised_Reed]

Problem is systems like that cost money. Are the parishes going to have enough to cover the cost? I’m not sure how much a system like that cost but I doubt it’s cheap.

Besides as the old saying goes. If you have something important to say don’t say it over the phone.

Exactly. I’m thinking of the phrase “phoning it in”. Things that are too convenient seem to get abused.

To the OP: I believe you just want greater accessibility to the Sacraments for those who have various challenges and you can directly help with that by driving people to church, etc.or if you bring communion to the homebound by discreetly finding out if there is a need and making sure a priest knows to visit. This is significantly more doable than the cost and logistics to make confession-by-phone workable. And you can do something about it now. Go ahead and send a letter to Rome but I think you’ll find greater satisfaction by doing something now rather than waiting for Rome to approve something that they’ve already said “No” about.

 

[Bruised_Reed]

I have also been to confession in many churches and there is always light on the penitent’s side. I don’t think that you can say that your own experience is the only normative one and anyone else’s in “innovative.”

The parishes I was referring to were traditional ones, old confessionals and so, while not “normative” they were traditional. I always thought it was deliberate for privacy.

And your post could have done without the eyeroll. Such contempt rarely adds to a discussion.

 

[Sabda]

The parishes I was referring to were traditional ones, old confessionals and so, while not “normative” they were traditional. I always thought it was deliberate for privacy.

And your post could have done without the eyeroll. Such contempt rarely adds to a discussion.

My experience has been the same as yours and I have been in old traditional parishes and in newer parishes. I also thought is was to give the penitent more privacy.

Apparently not all parishes are like that.