What would bring the church back on track?

[sancte_joseph]

There are many things that have happened throught the last decades… some good and some bad…
So what things would bring the church back on track???

 

[hansard]

Hard to know exactly what you’re getting at.
Do you mean: should the church modernise or become “hip” to modern trends? I think one of the comforting aspects of the church is that it does not bend in the face of secular pressure, and neither should it.
I mean, I’ve regularly questioned my faith over the years, but I would be terribly disappointed if the Catholic Church became all prevaricating and vacillating on religious or social issues.

Unless of course you’re referring to specific incidents, in which case we might need more information (there are incidents everywhere in the world, of varying severity and importance).

Anyway, back to you…

 

[geezerbob]

The Church is on track. Some of its members aren’t. Big difference. It’s all in your perspective.

 

[Shin]

1000% increase in vocations to the F.S.S.P.

 

[JPUSC]

We’re already back on track!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/ni/pope_benedict.jpg

 

[Tsuwano]

The Church is on track. Some of its members aren’t. Big difference. It’s all in your perspective.

I’m in full agreement. The Church has never jumped the track, though we are a pilgrim Church filled with sinful people. The Spirit of God has always been with the Church and always will be.

 

[Cat]

This is a great thread! Thank you. I look forward to reading and participating in the discussion and learning lots!

I agree that the Church is still on track when it comes to teaching faith and morals.

However, I think the question is, how can we restore the Church as the primary focus for Catholics? Or maybe…how can we win back the lukewarm Catholics?

I thought it was interesting to read that Susan Boyle (the amazing older singer on Britain’s Got Talent) says that her entire life (until now) has revolved around the Catholic Church.

There is a thread in this section about “Traditional Life” where people describe a time when they lived the teachings of the Church on a daily basis, praying prayers at prescribed times, attending daily Mass, praying family Rosaries, installing images of the saints in their homes, etc. Very appealing thread.

When I was evangelical Protestant, I was at church or involved in a church ministry 5-6 days/evenings a week. I think it is safe to say that my life revolved around my church.

Mybe this is wrong for Catholics. Maybe it’s a good thing that Catholics are outside the Church doors so much instead of having their entire lives revolve around Church. I will say that I think the evangelical Protestant “lifestyle” was more of a “fortress” lifestyle, in which I “hid out” in the safety of the church life, rather than an evangelical lifestyle in which I was salt and light to the world. To this day, I don’t drink, dance, or feel comfortable in settings where people do these things. I am a social misfit, at least among people other than evangelical Protestants (and figure skaters!). That doesn’t seem like a good thing for a Christian to be.

However, the problem with living "out of the Church and in the world) is actually living our faith and staying close to Jesus. So many Catholics don’t seem to be living their faith. ALL of the Catholics that I work with could be described as cafeteria at best, and apostate at worst. They support abortion rights (but they themselves would never have an abortion), gay marriage, they call our esteemed bishop a foul name that begins with A and describes a part of the body, they don’t attend Mass, they don’t believe in True Presence, they live the way they want to live (co-habiting, having homosexual genital sex, etc.).

I fear for their souls.

And there are so many other Catholics like them, Catholics who range from apathetic about the things of God to blatant proponents of sin (e.g., Nancy Pelosi).

So perhaps that’s what the OP is thinking of–how can the Church of Jesus Christ become the central focus in the lives of these Christians?

I’m not sure of the answer to the OP question. My first thought was “a new work of the Holy Spirit, brought on by prayers of the faithful.”

But I’m beginning to think that’s a wimpout, “evangelical Protestant” approach. It puts all the responsibility on the Lord, and very little on the Christians.

So I’m not sure.

I do think that the Church would be well-advised to “tighten and tone.” Make sure the Liturgy is impeccable. Stick to the rubrics. Discipline people who blatently oppose the teachings of the Church in the public arena. Clear out any remaining “70s” liberals and liberal teachings and practices.

And above all else, I think that the Catholic colleges that are NOT truly Catholic should be made to expunge the name “Catholic” out of their name! It is in the colleges that so much of culture is formed. I think it is a disgrace that these institutions are allowed to present a warped picture of Catholicism to the public.

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

There are many things that have happened throught the last decades… some good and some bad…
So what things would bring the church back on track???

Maybe if Catholics actually acted as, and voted as, Catholics?

 

[Tomster]

Maybe if Catholics actually acted as, and voted as, Catholics?

I strongly agree. Additionally, I would like to see stronger oversight in the area of catechetical instruction by our bishops. It has been really sad to see the watering down of the faith these past forty to fifty years.

 

[TheDoctor]

Agree that the Church never left the track.

What we need is to get back to the basics. A lot of Catholics don’t understand what the Church really teaches and I think a lot of those who don’t agree do so precisely because they really don’t understand.

Quick example - I was listening to EWTN radio on the way home and a new Catholic called in with a question (I think it was John Martignoni’s show) because they were told that Purgatory no longer exists. How the heck do you go through RCIA and are taught Purgatory does not exist!

 

[otjm]

Agree that the Church never left the track.

What we need is to get back to the basics. A lot of Catholics don’t understand what the Church really teaches and I think a lot of those who don’t agree do so precisely because they really don’t understand.

Quick example - I was listening to EWTN radio on the way home and a new Catholic called in with a question (I think it was John Martignoni’s show) because they were told that Purgatory no longer exists. How the heck do you go through RCIA and are taught Purgatory does not exist!

There may be several answers to this question. The first one could be that the teacher was confused, and taught a mish-mash about Limbo/Purgatory.

The second could be that the person calling in was confused; did not have enough information to distinguish between one and the other - in other words, was correctly taught but did not absorb the information.

I have been working in RCIA for enough years to know that what we teach is not always what is heard. The parish I am in is true to the Magisterium. But ask some of the newbies something, and what pops out of their mouth isn’t what was said in the classroom.

It helps to not jump to conclusions; in listening to the program, you heard one side of the story; it may have been the correct, factual one.

Then again, it may not have been.

 

[otjm]

I strongly agree. Additionally, I would like to see stronger oversight in the area of catechetical instruction by our bishops. It has been really sad to see the watering down of the faith these past forty to fifty years.

In addition to working with RCIA, I also work with Returning Catholics.

Catechesis is part of the problem. But it is simplistic to blame a whole lot on that; no one has yet convinced me that the people I see returning would not have left because of the issue of catechesis.

My own experience is that people leave for a multitude of reasons. In my own extended family, I have on one side of my family 6 cousins out of 11 that have left the Church (the youngest is in their 40’s); and all but one of them that left was in what we used to call a m"mixed marriage"; I would attribute each of them leaving to spouses who were stronger in their faith (coupled with issues of anger with the Church over some issues, such as the Pill); the other one left after a divorce that soured him on the Church.

Just my own personal opinion (but based on something more than just opinion - it is called “evidence”), but I suspect the number one issue has to do with sexual morals. as in, the Church teaches one thing, and society teaches another, and what society teaches sounds like a lot more fun.

And from what I have seen and heard, the second issue is what some nun or priest said, or is allged to have said. People get mad, and split. Granted that we can talk about catechesis till we are blue in the face; but you can say all you want to someone about the Eucharist, and when they get a head of steam up, they will leave. It may be the Eucharist that finally draws them back, but it sure doesn’t seem to slow them down when they are leaving.

Third is what I call the “siren call”, the attractiveness some people find, especially in the evangelical churches which have a very active social attraction. manfy people find the Catholic Church (meaning the peiople in the parish) to be cold and distant; they go to Mass and split. They are not friendly to you when you arrive, and seemingly can’t wait to get away from you when they leave. People who have left and come back remark about how friendly our parish is; so do people who started looking for a home parish, and chose ours over several other suburban parishes. and people have commented that they joined another church because of getting a constant “cold shoulder”.

Fourt is those who leave because they saw a vibrant snes of love for Scripture in one of the evangelical churches, and couldn’t find that in the parish they were in. I always find that an interesting indictment.

The list goes on and on. How many kids go to college, and 1) get too busy, 2) get into sex, drugs and rock & roll, 3) rebell against their perception of dominating parents, 4) add your comment here… and simply don’t get back? It is jsut too easy to not go to Mass, whehn that requires effort, particularly at a time of such great peer influence.

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

In addition to working with RCIA, I also work with Returning Catholics.

Catechesis is part of the problem. But it is simplistic to blame a whole lot on that; no one has yet convinced me that the people I see returning would not have left because of the issue of catechesis.

Third is what I call the “siren call”, the attractiveness some people find, especially in the evangelical churches which have a very active social attraction. manfy people find the Catholic Church (meaning the peiople in the parish) to be cold and distant; they go to Mass and split. They are not friendly to you when you arrive, and seemingly can’t wait to get away from you when they leave. People who have left and come back remark about how friendly our parish is; so do people who started looking for a home parish, and chose ours over several other suburban parishes. and people have commented that they joined another church because of getting a constant “cold shoulder”.

I find this to be true as well.

HOWEVER— I did not join a social club.

I joined the one True Church, with Christ as its head, and whether its local parishoners throw parties or not isn’t really a factor.

 

[shuzo1189]

1000% increase in vocations to the F.S.S.P.

What they need is another seminary, They have a waiting list for Admittance

I was considering applying for next years class but settled on the O.P. of the Western Province.

 

[Shin]

What they need is another seminary, They have a waiting list for Admittance

I was considering applying for next years class but settled on the O.P. of the Western Province.

1000% increase in donations to the F.S.S.P.!

 

[peregrinator_it]

If, by your question you mean, “what would improve the situation in the Church?” there’s only one answer.

1000% increase in donations to the F.S.S.P.!

I’m sure the above is meant to be a little tongue-in-cheek, but, really, there are no magic bullets.

The only thing that is guaranteed to help the situation in the Church is personal sanctity. (That means you & me…) Full stop. No exceptions.

 

[peregrinus_WA]

The Church is getting back on track, but that is only part of the issue. We also need to look at society as a whole and get it back on track. I commented on this recently in my blog:

Is the Solution to Today’s Ills in the Movements of the Past

I am starting to come to the realization that the solution to society’s ills due to rampant Relativism, Materialism, Capitalism, Liberalism, and Socialism may lay in the Catholic movements of the past.

There have been a number of times where western civilization went astray or was in imminent danger of collapse. Some of these include the fall of Rome, the Black Death of the 14th century and the protestant revolt. It was the Catholic Church that either held civilization together or brought it back to the Truth. Even in other time where the circumstances were not that dire, the Catholic Church has been there to right the way when things have gotten off track.

Today’s situation is much like the time around the fall of the Roman Empire. Immorality was rampant and the “barbarians” were invading. Today it is a little different though. The “barbarians” are causing the immorality. Yes, I am calling the Relativists, Materialists, Capitalists, Liberals, and Socialists the “barbarians” of today’s world.

Now, back to the movements and how they may help. There have been many throughout the last 2,000 years and we must explore which one can do the most good today. When looking at the movement, we must not only look at the ones that were a resounding success, but ones that had little or no success and even those that were utter and complete failures. What did not work in the past, may work now.

Three that I am exploring right now are relatively new movements. They are the Catholic Workers, Catholic Land, and Distributism movements. I am exploring these since mainly related to the economic ills brought on my Capitalism, Socialism and Materialism. I truly believe that much, if not all the answers, to the economic destruction and injustices can be found in three movements.

As for the social decay brought on by all of the aforementioned, I am still searching for keys to solve those. Part of the solution probably can be found in the three movements, but I still see the need to look further.

The solution and/or solutions need to be found soon or a second “fall of Rome” is in the future.

Now, I know some here will complain about some of the movements listed (especially the Catholic Workers movement). However, we must take a look at everything and take the best of each.

BTW: I attend, except when the switch the Masses around, the Extraordinary form of the Mass and go to Confession almost every week.

 

[PaulinVA]

If, by your question you mean, “what would improve the situation in the Church?” there’s only one answer.

I’m sure the above is meant to be a little tongue-in-cheek, but, really, there are no magic bullets.

The only thing that is guaranteed to help the situation in the Church is personal sanctity. (That means you & me…) Full stop. No exceptions.

I agree that there are no magic bullets.

However, I don’t think that personal piety on the part of some laity will right the wrongs or bring an increase in reverence.

We are hierarchical, and the ordained are in charge. The ordained need to continue reforming the seminaries, and the Bishops need to stand up for the Church. This can’t come from the bottom up - it has to come from the top down.

Pray for the Bishops and Priests to live up to their vows and lead us to greater reverence and greater Catholic identity; that’s where to start.

 

[Cat]

I find this to be true as well.

HOWEVER— I did not join a social club.

I joined the one True Church, with Christ as its head, and whether its local parishoners throw parties or not isn’t really a factor.

But we can’t look at ourselves when we are trying to figure out why other people leave the Church. We have to study THEM and honestly assess their reasons for leaving. You and I didn’t join for social reasons, but many people do join evangelical churches for social reasons.

If we disagree with their reasons for leaving, that doesn’t matter two hoots. We have to face what they are saying and deal with it, not just tell them that they’re wrong.

 

[Cat]

In addition to working with RCIA, I also work with Returning Catholics.

Catechesis is part of the problem. But it is simplistic to blame a whole lot on that; no one has yet convinced me that the people I see returning would not have left because of the issue of catechesis.

My own experience is that people leave for a multitude of reasons. In my own extended family, I have on one side of my family 6 cousins out of 11 that have left the Church (the youngest is in their 40’s); and all but one of them that left was in what we used to call a m"mixed marriage"; I would attribute each of them leaving to spouses who were stronger in their faith (coupled with issues of anger with the Church over some issues, such as the Pill); the other one left after a divorce that soured him on the Church.

Just my own personal opinion (but based on something more than just opinion - it is called “evidence”), but I suspect the number one issue has to do with sexual morals. as in, the Church teaches one thing, and society teaches another, and what society teaches sounds like a lot more fun.

And from what I have seen and heard, the second issue is what some nun or priest said, or is allged to have said. People get mad, and split. Granted that we can talk about catechesis till we are blue in the face; but you can say all you want to someone about the Eucharist, and when they get a head of steam up, they will leave. It may be the Eucharist that finally draws them back, but it sure doesn’t seem to slow them down when they are leaving.

Third is what I call the “siren call”, the attractiveness some people find, especially in the evangelical churches which have a very active social attraction. manfy people find the Catholic Church (meaning the peiople in the parish) to be cold and distant; they go to Mass and split. They are not friendly to you when you arrive, and seemingly can’t wait to get away from you when they leave. People who have left and come back remark about how friendly our parish is; so do people who started looking for a home parish, and chose ours over several other suburban parishes. and people have commented that they joined another church because of getting a constant “cold shoulder”.

Fourt is those who leave because they saw a vibrant snes of love for Scripture in one of the evangelical churches, and couldn’t find that in the parish they were in. I always find that an interesting indictment.

The list goes on and on. How many kids go to college, and 1) get too busy, 2) get into sex, drugs and rock & roll, 3) rebell against their perception of dominating parents, 4) add your comment here… and simply don’t get back? It is jsut too easy to not go to Mass, whehn that requires effort, particularly at a time of such great peer influence.

This is excellent. Lots of things to think about.

The reason people leave any organization or situation is that they don’t find it worth their time and energy and they don’t want to make the sacrifices that are necessary to continue their involvement with that organization or situation.

That’s why so many people start an exercise program, and then give it up. They don’t lose any weight, they don’t get buff, their joints hurt, they keep getting colds and flu from exposing themselves to people who exercise even when they have the bubonic plague, it costs too much to keep paying the dues at the gym, they don’t make any friends at the gym, it’s not very fun, and wen all is said and done, they don’t feel that it’s worth it!

Same for church (Catholic or Protestant). People leave when they don’t get anything out of it.