What would bring the church back on track?

[otjm]

I don’t think we’ll see a return of civilization (at least in the U.S.) to a moral foundation UNLESS the church is revived.

If you read the history of religious revival, you will see that revival came FIRST, and then society became moral. NOT the other way around.

II Chronicles 7:14 says that if my people who are called by My name will humble themselves and pray and seek My Face and turn from their wicked way, THEN I will hear from heaven, will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

The healing of civilization and culture won’t happen until God’s people make a decision to be humble, pray and turn from sin. The ball is in OUR court, not theirs. We can’t sit back and wait for the world to become moral. WE have to pray, seek God, and turn from sin.

And I do believe that it does not take a huge church to do this. I believe that the small remnant of the faithful can do all of these things. If we sit around and wait for our churches to fill up, we are disobedient. We should humble ourselves, pray, seek God, and turn from sin NOW, not someday when the Mass is full and all the people are catechized and everything is good again.

Finally, I believe it will happen in GOD’S time, not ours. To us, the decades fly by and it seems that God has abandoned us. But to Him, a thousand years is as a day. We just need to OBEY–keep being humble, praying, seeking Him, and turning from sin. Someday, we will see how our prayers and faith helped to bring the kingdom of God to earth.

I’ll be honest–I think for Catholics, the first step is the hardest–humbling ourselves. I see a lot of pride from some of the Catholics on this board. So many are convinced that they know more than the Church, and so many MANY Catholics are convinced that they are “entitled” to the “perfect Mass.” Yes, the Church documents do say that the faithful are entitled to a reverent, abuse-free Mass. But I’m not sure that this means that we are entitled to the kind of music we like, the perfectly-quiet nave, the modestly-dressed crowd, the Communion railing, and all the trappings that some people long for. I think that we should learn to be content, and that is humility. Perhaps it is our lack of contentment with our Masses that is preventing us from humbling ourselves.

I might as well thros wnother stone in the puddle. I often feel as if we live in an Alice-in-Wonderland wrold, particularly as it comes to the news. We have a bitter enemy, and that is Islam. A whole lot of ink is spilled about terrorism, and in particular the terrorism done by Muslims. However, a massive part of the reporting simply is not reported, and that is the fact that this terrorism is being driven by a religious view, and a religiously based world view.

For whatever differences there may be between liberal Muslims, moderate Muslims, conservative Muslims, and ultraconservative Muslims, there is a fairly strong connection between their belief system and how they view the Western world. And interestingly, they have not been the least bit hesitant to tell us why they think we are wrong. The press, however, is silent almost to a fault. They (Muslims) see us as having no moral base in terms of sexuality and sexual expression; they see our wealth as seriously corrupting, and they see us as godless. I do not bring this up for anyone to go off on a tangent saying we are right and they are wrong, or attempting to show what flaws they have. It is a simple fact that they see this in religious terms much more than economic or political terms. And the press, being as secular and anti-religious as the press has become, simply will not bring this discussion up. The press is far more interested in touting “religious” and civil “rights” concerning gays, gay marriage, and soon to follow, polyamory.

 

[brigid12]

I agree with Cat that humility, obedience and conversion of heart are the basis of renewing the Church. The other day Fr. Corapi added that Eucharistic Adoration along with the Sacraments, of course, is sorely needed.

 

[Cat]

I might as well thros wnother stone in the puddle. I often feel as if we live in an Alice-in-Wonderland wrold, particularly as it comes to the news. We have a bitter enemy, and that is Islam. A whole lot of ink is spilled about terrorism, and in particular the terrorism done by Muslims. However, a massive part of the reporting simply is not reported, and that is the fact that this terrorism is being driven by a religious view, and a religiously based world view.

For whatever differences there may be between liberal Muslims, moderate Muslims, conservative Muslims, and ultraconservative Muslims, there is a fairly strong connection between their belief system and how they view the Western world. And interestingly, they have not been the least bit hesitant to tell us why they think we are wrong. The press, however, is silent almost to a fault. They (Muslims) see us as having no moral base in terms of sexuality and sexual expression; they see our wealth as seriously corrupting, and they see us as godless. I do not bring this up for anyone to go off on a tangent saying we are right and they are wrong, or attempting to show what flaws they have. It is a simple fact that they see this in religious terms much more than economic or political terms. And the press, being as secular and anti-religious as the press has become, simply will not bring this discussion up. The press is far more interested in touting “religious” and civil “rights” concerning gays, gay marriage, and soon to follow, polyamory.

Do you think at this point that it is possible for serious Catholics to become journalists and thus have the forum to try to “temper” the godless POV prevalent in the press?

There are Catholic and Protestant Christian columnists (e.g., Cal Thomas), and of course, the radio journalists, and even a few (very few) television journalists. Some of these are wishy-washy and I think they do harm to the Catholic Church. But others are fairly sharp-witted and print or speak thought-provoking commentary.

I’ve always believed that the most effective approach would be to obey Jesus and be salt and light in the world. This means encouraging our children to enter media careers, either as journalists, or as entertainers (writers, painters, actors, techies, dancers, etc.)

The novels for teenagers that I have written have a definite God-centered universe, although it is not blatent, and there is no hint of “preach-writing” in my stories. I try to write good, gripping stories with good language and style that will be worth reading and will hopefully interest people who have no interest in God. I consider it a sneaky way to bring my readers face to face with the Kingdom of God!

But is “infiltrating the world” on their own turf still a viable strategy? Would our feeble efforts to be light get doused by the flood of worldliness?

 

[otjm]

Do you think at this point that it is possible for serious Catholics to become journalists and thus have the forum to try to “temper” the godless POV prevalent in the press?

There are Catholic and Protestant Christian columnists (e.g., Cal Thomas), and of course, the radio journalists, and even a few (very few) television journalists. Some of these are wishy-washy and I think they do harm to the Catholic Church. But others are fairly sharp-witted and print or speak thought-provoking commentary.

I’ve always believed that the most effective approach would be to obey Jesus and be salt and light in the world. This means encouraging our children to enter media careers, either as journalists, or as entertainers (writers, painters, actors, techies, dancers, etc.)

The novels for teenagers that I have written have a definite God-centered universe, although it is not blatent, and there is no hint of “preach-writing” in my stories. I try to write good, gripping stories with good language and style that will be worth reading and will hopefully interest people who have no interest in God. I consider it a sneaky way to bring my readers face to face with the Kingdom of God!

But is “infiltrating the world” on their own turf still a viable strategy? Would our feeble efforts to be light get doused by the flood of worldliness?

Given that we have become as dumbed-sown as we have by the media, a few journalists are not going to make a dent in our collective psyche.

The media got it right on Viet Nam. The news was relentless and consistent; unless and until the major media moguls determine that they will focus on moral failure and its consequences and provide the same continual, relentless coverage, the vast unwashed masses are not going to get it. They won’t get it as long as they can get away to whatever mental pablum is being passed off for entertainment.

I’ll not hold my breath.

The history of the world in terms of governments is a repeated pattern of rising and falling. I am surprised the US has hung on as long as it has. Our country is not going to disappear, but in terms of being a world power, in terms of influence, we may have already peaked. Obama and Pelosi’s vision of government might make Chavez’ socks roll up and down, and be touted in Bolivia as proof of their path; it might even make Ortega smile. I don’t thifnk the Chinese are going to waste good breath on the two of them, as China is getting the game figured out. Iran and Pakistan? They won’t be impressed. we have no moral leadership in this country; the closest we came was Palin, and the press collectively messed its britches over the thought of anyone who would so dare to stand up as a moral icon. A few commentators? About like pouring water into a bucket with a hole in the bottom.

Look at how the press treated Mother Theresa; adulation. Look at the impact that she had on the generall masses. Nil. One of her most pointed, pithy comments was about the true poverty of those who abort. And the abortion game goes on with nary a blip.

 

[Cat]

OTOH, who knows what our media would be like if there were no Christians?

I’ve told this story before on this board, so forgive me if you’ve already read it. My daughter is a professional stage manager who was contracted by a friend of hers to help develop a play about homosexuality and Christianity. She and this friend conducted around 150 interviews with homosexuals, transexuals, bisexuals, and others who professed Christian faith.

A board of people were recruited to help write the script, and my daughter served on this board.

At one point, it looked very much like the play was going in the typical liberal direction; “the Bible says it’s perfectly OK to be homosexual, homosexuality is not a disorder, homosexuality is a legitimate way to express love, it is not realistic to expect a homosexual to remain celibate,” etc.

My daughter brought up several interviews that had been done with homosexuals who were living celibately (in obedience to the Church), and also interviews with homosexuals who were married to women and had children, and decided to live chastely with their wife rather than follow their inclination to take a gay lover(s).

My daughter also presented interviews by psychologists who maintain that homosexuality is a disorder and can/should be treated.

My daughter (and one other man on the board) argued for the inclusion of these interviews in the script, as the play was supposed to be genuine attempt at a balanced point-of-view of homosexuality.

Eventually she (and the other man) won out, and the resulting script is actually quite marvelous–a very touching presentation of the difficult issues that gay Christians (and transexual/transgender, etc.) face.

If she (and that other man) hadn’t been present on the board, and working with the director, then in all likelihood, the play would have been just another wishy-washy liberal paeon touting the need for homosexual civil rights.

I’m sure that all over the U.S., there are Christian and Christian-friendly journalists, producers, directors, actors, etc. who manage to temper stories, broadcasts, articles, plays, movies, and television shows with a “Christian flavor.” Thank God for them.

There are several “Christian-friendly” producers in Hollywood who consistently present family-friendly (mostly) projects that present a balanced view of Christianity. One of these producers is Jay Russell, who did Ladder 49 and My Dog Skip. Of course these movies are not totally Christian (Ladder 49 has a scene with pre-marital sex.) But they are hugely better than a lot of the tripe that comes out of Hollywood that is horribly anti-Christian. Thank God for these producers, who keep Hollywood from becoming entirely godless.

The problem is, these media/entertainment people walk a very thin tightrope. They have to be careful not to get themselves fired, but they also don’t want to compromise too much. My daughter had a difficult time last November during the controversy over Proposition Eight in California. She did figure out some very clever ways to deal with people about this issue in such a way that didn’t offend them, but did give them the Christian alternative.

I think that when God places a Christian in the line of fire, He gives them whatever weapons they need to hold the line. Humor, quick wit, banter, intelligence, sweetness, softness, skill in their line of work–all of these are good “weapons” that my daughter has, and I’m sure many other Christian journalists and media people have, too.

 

[sparkielee]

I hate to bring up money as a factor-especially with a favorite Scripture reading of mine being “For the love of money is the root of all evil” but the FSSP’s can use more donations.

I get their newsletter and their seminary, Our Lady of Guadelupe, is filled to capacity. They need funds to add on to the seminary however. I wish I could send them more money to meet their expenses. I’m not discouraging any single man who feels “called” from applying-especially since I also think we need “a 1000% increase in vocations” in that community.

Of course, we need to pray for our young people that they make the right decision as far as vocation goes-whether it’s for the priesthood, the religious life, marriage, or the single life. Of course those called to the priesthood and religious life would need to discern which community to join-and I’m really impressed with the numbers of young men entering Our Lady of Guadelupe.

The url for the FSSP’s is fssp.org/ Fraternity Publication Service, which is a ministry of theirs fraternitypublications.com/ has books & DVD’s on how to serve or celebrate the Traditional Mass. These should be helpful to those considering becoming diocesan priests or a member of another community as well as those who are already priests but not FSSP’s. There are also workshops on the Traditional Mass for priests who want to learn this kind of Mass and you can click on a link on the publications site if you want more information or to be on the list.

The seminary has its own site as well fssp.org/en/seminaireD.htm

I agree with most of the answers to this question-but I think the main thing is PRAYER! That’s what Mary said to the kids in Medjugorie is “Pray! Pray! Pray!”

 

[Eddie_Mac]

Turn off the TV.

Husbands and Wives pray with each other.

Daddies and Mommies pray with their children.

Spend time in front of the Blessed Sacrament. Father Corapi teaches us that this is raw power for us Catholics. I believe it. Look what it has done for me in one year!

Frequent Communion.

Frequent Confessions.

With regards to money, increase the support of the Church. Catholics, as a rule, are pitifully lacking in this regard.

Along with other posters, vote Catholic.

This will help us, the Body of Christ, increase. We are supposed to increase. If you have to ask what it means to increase, do the above. If you don’t have to ask you probably already are.

Eddie Mac

 

[sparkielee]

We should definitely pray for personal sanctity-both for ourselves and others.

 

[otjm]

OTOH, who knows what our media would be like if there were no Christians?

I’ve told this story before on this board, so forgive me if you’ve already read it. My daughter is a professional stage manager who was contracted by a friend of hers to help develop a play about homosexuality and Christianity. She and this friend conducted around 150 interviews with homosexuals, transexuals, bisexuals, and others who professed Christian faith.

A board of people were recruited to help write the script, and my daughter served on this board.

At one point, it looked very much like the play was going in the typical liberal direction; “the Bible says it’s perfectly OK to be homosexual, homosexuality is not a disorder, homosexuality is a legitimate way to express love, it is not realistic to expect a homosexual to remain celibate,” etc.

My daughter brought up several interviews that had been done with homosexuals who were living celibately (in obedience to the Church), and also interviews with homosexuals who were married to women and had children, and decided to live chastely with their wife rather than follow their inclination to take a gay lover(s).

My daughter also presented interviews by psychologists who maintain that homosexuality is a disorder and can/should be treated.

My daughter (and one other man on the board) argued for the inclusion of these interviews in the script, as the play was supposed to be genuine attempt at a balanced point-of-view of homosexuality.

Eventually she (and the other man) won out, and the resulting script is actually quite marvelous–a very touching presentation of the difficult issues that gay Christians (and transexual/transgender, etc.) face.

If she (and that other man) hadn’t been present on the board, and working with the director, then in all likelihood, the play would have been just another wishy-washy liberal paeon touting the need for homosexual civil rights.

I’m sure that all over the U.S., there are Christian and Christian-friendly journalists, producers, directors, actors, etc. who manage to temper stories, broadcasts, articles, plays, movies, and television shows with a “Christian flavor.” Thank God for them.

There are several “Christian-friendly” producers in Hollywood who consistently present family-friendly (mostly) projects that present a balanced view of Christianity. One of these producers is Jay Russell, who did Ladder 49 and My Dog Skip. Of course these movies are not totally Christian (Ladder 49 has a scene with pre-marital sex.) But they are hugely better than a lot of the tripe that comes out of Hollywood that is horribly anti-Christian. Thank God for these producers, who keep Hollywood from becoming entirely godless.

The problem is, these media/entertainment people walk a very thin tightrope. They have to be careful not to get themselves fired, but they also don’t want to compromise too much. My daughter had a difficult time last November during the controversy over Proposition Eight in California. She did figure out some very clever ways to deal with people about this issue in such a way that didn’t offend them, but did give them the Christian alternative.

I think that when God places a Christian in the line of fire, He gives them whatever weapons they need to hold the line. Humor, quick wit, banter, intelligence, sweetness, softness, skill in their line of work–all of these are good “weapons” that my daughter has, and I’m sure many other Christian journalists and media people have, too.

I would never say that anyone who has the opportunity should not witness to the truth, and to the Truth. I only suggest that the US is heading on a downhill slope, and we are not talking a 5 degree slope. We are so close to free-fall, I am not sure we can distinguish the difference. Individually, people can make a difference. Collectively, one needs only to look at the programs our President has put into place already, what else he seems to have planned, and the statements and actions a Democratically controlled Congress is putting into place. And I am not speaking of foreign relations or economic issues.