R
Rickwood
Guest
No.
Reverse that.
Aside from your “conversations”, do you have any actual Church documentation?
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Reverse that.
Aside from your “conversations”, do you have any actual Church documentation?
R
Rickwood
Guest
Do you know how many would CLAIM to have allergies or addictions who they wouldn’t have to receive via intinction?Personally I think it would be a great thing. Everyone could receive under both species, except for those with allergies or addictions, if desired, and there would be no need of extraordinary ministers.
A win win situation as I see it.
Plus, how would the man distributing communion know?
P
palmas85
Guest
What in the world are you talking about?
Why would someone without an allergy or an addiction to alcohol, claim to have one to avoid receiving via intinction? That makes little or no sense.
The man or Priest or Deacon as he should properly be called wouldn’t have to know. It would certainly be the responsibility of the communicant, as it is now by the way, to advise him, Father, I am allergic to gluten or Father I am an alcoholic, please let me receive accordingly…
Seems pretty simple and straightforward to me.
I don’t really know where you are coming from with this one.
.
F
Friar_David_O.Carm
Guest
The Church will and does make exceptions in these cases.
To think it would not is unrealistic especially with the Church’s statement that all Catholics must receive the Eucharist at least once a year. To not do so is a sin. The Church can not cause a person to sin. But to make a person who is allergic to chose between their life and sin is wrong.
For someone to think that this would be the case is illogical.
There is no use in discussing this with you if you wish to be so.
J
japhy
Guest
I disagree.Perhaps the same increase of solemnity and reverence found in receiving on the tongue rather than in the hand.
R
Rickwood
Guest
No!
The Byzantine/Ruthenian Catholic church/tradition is part of the Byzantine Rite, NOT the reverse as you suggest!
Talk about “illogical!!”
J
jblake
Guest
Rickwood;:
Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith issued 22 August 1994 by Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, Prefect.
I. Concerning permission to use low-gluten altar breads:
*A. This may be granted by ordinaries to priests and laypersons affected by celiac disease, after presentation of a medical certificate. *
II. Concerning permission to use ‘mustum’:
*B. Nevertheless, the permission to use mustum can be granted by ordinaries to priests affected by alcoholism or other conditions which prevent the ingestion of even the smallest quantity of alcohol, after presentation of a medical certificate. *
Those claims would have to be supported by a medical certificate to that effect.
b) In the event that the Priest or Deacon forgets, a respectful “Father, I am allergic to gluten” or “Father, I am an alcoholic”, that is said softly, should suffice;
Historically, congregations that have a significant percentage of alcoholics, or people allergic to gluten, develop signals for individuals to use, to “state” their affliction to the Priest/Deacon;
xan
jonathon
Quoting from Norms for Use of Low-Gluten Bread and Mustum
Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith issued 22 August 1994 by Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, Prefect.
I. Concerning permission to use low-gluten altar breads:
*A. This may be granted by ordinaries to priests and laypersons affected by celiac disease, after presentation of a medical certificate. *
II. Concerning permission to use ‘mustum’:
*B. Nevertheless, the permission to use mustum can be granted by ordinaries to priests affected by alcoholism or other conditions which prevent the ingestion of even the smallest quantity of alcohol, after presentation of a medical certificate. *
Those claims would have to be supported by a medical certificate to that effect.
a) The individual should have informed the Priest prior to the start of the mass;
b) In the event that the Priest or Deacon forgets, a respectful “Father, I am allergic to gluten” or “Father, I am an alcoholic”, that is said softly, should suffice;
Historically, congregations that have a significant percentage of alcoholics, or people allergic to gluten, develop signals for individuals to use, to “state” their affliction to the Priest/Deacon;
xan
jonathon
F
Friar_David_O.Carm
Guest
Yes that is what I meant and if you have trouble understanding that then I am sorry.
Seems you wish to nit pick and attack rather than hold an adult discussion on the topic.
No, I don’t know. (And yes, I know you were addressing Palmas85. But it’s a public forum so anyone gets to respond.)
But why would you think the number would be large? I answered your original question in an earlier post and I’m going to expound apon it here.
Most people will end up receiving by intinction. Some may be unhappy about it. Some may even refuse to receive communion because of it. But back in the 1970s when a lot of (non-Eastern rite) parishes experimented with communion by intinction, people just received communion by intinction. I don’t recall any objections other than by the clergy and altar servers who had to take greater care to avoid spillage.
Those younger people for whom receiving in the hand is the only typical option may be uncomfortable for a while if intinction becomes the only option (medical exceptions aside). But I don’t see why they would be any less uncomfortable with intinction than with dry communion on the tongue.
But whether it takes a couple weeks, a couple months, or a couple of decades, people will get over their awkwardness. And as far as I am concerned, any liturgical change that takes less than 10 years to fully implement/complete is FAST.
K
KathleenElsie
Guest
Well IMHO I would rather spend the time with our Lord. The preaching is good if you have a priest that is good at it and many of them are not the best orators. But, time spend on my knees in the presence of the Lord is time that is never wasted and should not be rushed.
C
Cat
Guest
Rickwood, I usually enjoy reading your posts and consider you one of the more balanced people on CAF.
But to be honest, I’m having a hard time with this thread. I don’t see the point of it.
The purpose seems to be to rile people up and get them all mad and huffy.
Is that appropriate for us to do?
I can see posing the question as “Would YOU personally be upset if Communion was only by intinction and why?”
That kind of question makes people think. It gives us pause. We have to examine ourselves and determine if we are REALLY in submission to Holy Mother Church, or if we are just taking it easy and enjoying life because Holy Mother Church is doing things OUR way and we LIKE it and it’s comfy.
But to ask “What would happen if…” doesn’t really make people think. It makes them upset. They theorize not so much about themselves, but about OTHER people. So many on this thread seem to have concluded that, “Wow, it sure would cause a ruckus among all them libs out there. Woo hoo!”
I can almost hear chortling. I hear people thinking, “I wish that that would happen so that all them libs and mods and Prots would finally have to toe the line and be real Catholics like me!”
Now is that really a charitable way to be?
I guess I think this kind of thing is indulging in futile thinking and speculations, and the Bible tells us not to do this. Why rile people up? Wouldn’t it be better to make peace?
In her wisdom, Holy Mother Church has allowed many different “methods” of distributing Communion, and gives the apostles the authority to establish the best methods for their flock. Isn’t this wonderful? Why speculate about what would happen if…? Let’s just enjoy the bounty of Holy Mother Church.
But to be honest, I’m having a hard time with this thread. I don’t see the point of it.
The purpose seems to be to rile people up and get them all mad and huffy.
Is that appropriate for us to do?
I can see posing the question as “Would YOU personally be upset if Communion was only by intinction and why?”
That kind of question makes people think. It gives us pause. We have to examine ourselves and determine if we are REALLY in submission to Holy Mother Church, or if we are just taking it easy and enjoying life because Holy Mother Church is doing things OUR way and we LIKE it and it’s comfy.
But to ask “What would happen if…” doesn’t really make people think. It makes them upset. They theorize not so much about themselves, but about OTHER people. So many on this thread seem to have concluded that, “Wow, it sure would cause a ruckus among all them libs out there. Woo hoo!”
I can almost hear chortling. I hear people thinking, “I wish that that would happen so that all them libs and mods and Prots would finally have to toe the line and be real Catholics like me!”
Now is that really a charitable way to be?
I guess I think this kind of thing is indulging in futile thinking and speculations, and the Bible tells us not to do this. Why rile people up? Wouldn’t it be better to make peace?
In her wisdom, Holy Mother Church has allowed many different “methods” of distributing Communion, and gives the apostles the authority to establish the best methods for their flock. Isn’t this wonderful? Why speculate about what would happen if…? Let’s just enjoy the bounty of Holy Mother Church.
V
VociMike
Guest
Me too. Very much so.
J
japhy
Guest
That document was superseded by a 2003 document by the CDF.
A
Aramis
Guest
I have… quite often… infants.
R
Rickwood
Guest
Standing in line is more important to you than listening to a homily?
K
KathleenElsie
Guest
If all you are doing is “standing in line” then you are missing a great opportunity to pray and contemplate what it is you are about to receive. Then after you have another great opportunity to thank the LORD OUR GOD for the gift you have received.
In the parishes we go to the standing time is not that long as each pew goes forward one at a time. We remain in a prayerfully manner till it is our turn. It is a great opportunity for adoration of the LORD.
The remainder of the time, while others are receiving, is spent on our knees praying, worshiping and being thankful for the opportunity to revive the “true body, blood, soul and divinity” of our LORD.
So yes I would rather spend time “in line” as you put it.
R
Rickwood
Guest
Oh, GOOD POINT! If one received by the Precious blood only would they actually come-up and drink from the chalice before the co-mingling of the species (to guard against any wheat) or would they just have a little of the Precious Blood placed on their tongues with a spoon during communion?
A
Aramis
Guest
The level of gluten allergy is a problem. Not all gluten intolerant individuals are equally so.
A relative of mine happens to be gluten intolerant, and able to take normal roman hosts; they are also on medications that render even small amounts of alcohol problematic. They have received under both species at Byzantine parishes without issue.
On the other hand, I am aware of one celiac sufferer who receives only under the cup, as even the host is enough to trigger a bout of crippling pain.
But restriction to intinction alone will not solve the underlying issues of lack of decorum. Reception in the hand is centuries old in the Syriac Rite.
A relative of mine happens to be gluten intolerant, and able to take normal roman hosts; they are also on medications that render even small amounts of alcohol problematic. They have received under both species at Byzantine parishes without issue.
On the other hand, I am aware of one celiac sufferer who receives only under the cup, as even the host is enough to trigger a bout of crippling pain.
But restriction to intinction alone will not solve the underlying issues of lack of decorum. Reception in the hand is centuries old in the Syriac Rite.
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