What would happen to mankind if Christ gave into temptation

[prodigalson12]

I shudder at the thought, where the state of affairs would be to this day with mankind, if he gave into temptation and sinned, if he did not die on the cross for our sins, if the Holy Spirit did not decend onto mankind after he left and if the church was never established.

Our world would be a terrifying place to live in indeed, so, so many graces we take for granted through the ages, revoked entirely. Mankind would be completely enslaved to the dark forces, and what would be considered normal, to us, would be utterly vile.

Possible directions mankind would likely take. We would have thrown out all things pertaining to God, relying entirely upon science as our messiah, and likely, at the expense of our humanity. We would have advanced dramatically technology wise, because that is all our efforts would be on, we would also de-evolve morally, so there would be no limits imposed as to what science can produce. Our thoughts and individual selves would no longer be our own, we would be in a borge like collective, reduced to merely biological machines, and as a race of beings, dead in all matters that count.

We would then conqure the galaxy, or attempt to, and impose our own Godless agenda’s on other worlds, exploiting it all for our collective, selfish needs like a swarm of locusts. We would use any forms of life we see fit to advance our own agenda’s without any concept of remorse for what we do to them, performing experiements on them for our amusement. Our governments would make the Nazi’s look like a bunch of boy scouts.

Man at that stage would be far worse then the animals, for he would be no longer even remotely part of the natural world, he would be unto himself, his own world and the concept of the soul would have no place in his life. And since we no longer had any kind of Salvation, the best we could hope for would to be in direct alignment with the ways of the dark side and our agenda’s would be in all ways, against God.

This fictional account is given, if we have not destroyed every living thing on this earth, which would be a very likely scenereo.

You see what I mean here, the significance of Christ’s life, the fact remains that he had the same choices all of us had, while he was here in the flesh, it was entirely up to him to choose the right thing, to not give into temptation, and his sacrifice along with, very much saved the world and all of mankind including parts of mankind that shun who he is to this day.

 

[Mark_Nolan]

I shudder at the thought, where the state of affairs would be to this day with mankind, if he gave into temptation and sinned, if he did not die on the cross for our sins, if the Holy Spirit did not decend onto mankind after he left and if the church was never established.

Our world would be a terrifying place to live in indeed, so, so many graces we take for granted through the ages, revoked entirely. Mankind would be completely enslaved to the dark forces, and what would be considered normal, to us, would be utterly vile.

Possible directions mankind would likely take. We would have thrown out all things pertaining to God, relying entirely upon science as our messiah, and likely, at the expense of our humanity. We would have advanced dramatically technology wise, because that is all our efforts would be on, we would also de-evolve morally, so there would be no limits imposed as to what science can produce. Our thoughts and individual selves would no longer be our own, we would be in a borge like collective, reduced to merely biological machines, and as a race of beings, dead in all matters that count.

We would then conqure the galaxy, or attempt to, and impose our own Godless agenda’s on other worlds, exploiting it all for our collective, selfish needs like a swarm of locusts. We would use any forms of life we see fit to advance our own agenda’s without any concept of remorse for what we do to them, performing experiements on them for our amusement. Our governments would make the Nazi’s look like a bunch of boy scouts.

Man at that stage would be far worse then the animals, for he would be no longer even remotely part of the natural world, he would be unto himself, his own world and the concept of the soul would have no place in his life. And since we no longer had any kind of Salvation, the best we could hope for would to be in direct alignment with the ways of the dark side and our agenda’s would be in all ways, against God.

This fictional account is given, if we have not destroyed every living thing on this earth, which would be a very likely scenereo.

You see what I mean here, the significance of Christ’s life, the fact remains that he had the same choices all of us had, while he was here in the flesh, it was entirely up to him to choose the right thing, to not give into temptation, and his sacrifice along with, very much saved the world and all of mankind including parts of mankind that shun who he is to this day.

Hi,from Mark in England .Why do you believe all mankind to be saved?didnt Jesus come for the ellect?the sheep that would hear his voice?not every body hears His voice?
regards Mark

 

[prodigalson12]

Hi,from Mark in England .Why do you believe all mankind to be saved?didnt Jesus come for the ellect?the sheep that would hear his voice?not every body hears His voice?
regards Mark

A world without Christianity would be a terrible place to live in, for all of mankind, so I use the term saved, loosely. At the same time, I believe all of mankind is called to receive his precious gift, yet not all choose to accept it.

 

[tonyrey]

Which temptations did Jesus resist and why? The answer to that question explains what would have happened to mankind if he had given in to temptation. He resisted the temptation to “save” himself! To save his own skin and abandon us to our fate. What fate? Our state of ignorance, weakness and selfishness which we inherit in our culture of conflict and violence. He liberated us by his refusal to be caught up in the spiral of evil and hatred. He practised what he preached in the way he lived and died.

The truth of his teaching shines by its own light even if we know nothing of his life. All the great religions of the world are based on spiritual and moral truths which Jesus crystallised in his words and actions at a specific time and place. That is why humanity has been influenced so deeply by the one human being who incarnated the greatest reality of all - the reality of love and the infinite value of every man, woman and child…

 

[fbl9]

Hi,from Mark in England .Why do you believe all mankind to be saved?didnt Jesus come for the ellect?the sheep that would hear his voice?not every body hears His voice?
regards Mark

Hello Mark welcome to the forums.

Can they that have not heard the gospel hear His voice?
It is not ours to say what the fate of those outside of the church shall be…Could it be that; if they that have not heard the good news: by God’s knowledge of these persons would be saved or damned, had they heard the gospel and would have accepted or rejected it.
Only God knows what these persons would beleive had they actually heard the gospel.

 

[fbl9]

The answer to the title is simple: the " christ" was not Christ and they that whorship such (the christ that sinned) are whorshipping a mere human, not GOD.

 

[prodigalson12]

Which temptations did Jesus resist and why? The answer to that question explains what would have happened to mankind if he had given in to temptation. He resisted the temptation to “save” himself! To save his own skin and abandon us to our fate.

If he was ever concerned about saving his own skin, why did he freely give himself up on the cross? He died for us so that we did not have to be abandoned to our fate, which we all are justly judged for and fully deserve, his sacrifice was just the opposite of abandonment.

What fate? Our state of ignorance, weakness and selfishness which we inherit in our culture of conflict and violence. He liberated us by his refusal to be caught up in the spiral of evil and hatred. He practised what he preached in the way he lived and died.

He taught us that, but that’s strictly from an outside perspective, it wasn’t about him simply being good, or living in line with Gods rules, what he did and what he taught went much deeper then this. It literally is no longer about trying to simply change our basic values, it is to change our very nature itself by allowing his light to reside in us, to let it shine through our personal darkness, and it’s about giving your life to him, our control over to him, and letting him reside in you.

The truth of his teaching shines by its own light even if we know nothing of his life. All the great religions of the world are based on spiritual and moral truths which Jesus crystallised in his words and actions at a specific time and place. That is why humanity has been influenced so deeply by the one human being who incarnated the greatest reality of all - the reality of love and the infinite value of every man, woman and child…

Not all of them, not by far, which is why the road is narrow, only those that believe Christ is the Son of God, that Christ is the messiah have a chance to be saved, and when one tests any religion, it is that basis we are to test it with.

 

[Faramir]

I agree with prodigalson who has made some excellent points.

I also agree with the first poster that I shudder to think what would have happened. Obviously this is a speculative endeavour and no-one will really know. I believe that the results could be much more cataclysmically awful than anything that has so far been mentionned. I believe that the whole existence of the universe would have been threatened. The Bible says about Jesus he created all things and in him all things hold together. It also says that the wages of sin is death. If Jesus had sinned then presumably he would have succumbed to the power of death in a way which would not have allowed for resurrection. If this had happened he would no longer have been able to sustain the universe. What would have happened next doesn’t bear thinking about.

Thankfully Jesus resisted every temptation so this is only a matter for speculation!

 

[Katholish]

While it may be an interesting speculative investigation to ask “what if Christ had not come?” It is silly to ask “What if Christ had sinned?” It is a logical absurdity–a contradiction in nature like a square-circle. It was not possible for Christ to sin. The temptations of Christ are called temptations because the devil tried to entice him to sin, not because he actually thought about doing it. It seems fair to conclude that the devil didn’t really understand to Whom he was speaking.

 

[prodigalson12]

While it may be an interesting speculative investigation to ask “what if Christ had not come?” It is silly to ask “What if Christ had sinned?” It is a logical absurdity–a contradiction in nature like a square-circle. It was not possible for Christ to sin. The temptations of Christ are called temptations because the devil tried to entice him to sin, not because he actually thought about doing it. It seems fair to conclude that the devil didn’t really understand to Whom he was speaking.

If it was not possible, then he would not have been truly human incarnate and his life would have been one great big facade.

 

[Katholish]

If it was not possible, then he would not have been truly human incarnate and his life would have been one great big facade.

How so? While Christ’s human nature is distinct from His Divine Nature, it is nevertheless impossible that His human will be in conflict with His Divine Will. This was defined by the Third Council of Constantinople: “And these two natural wills are not contrary the one to the other (God forbid!) as the impious heretics assert, but his human will follows and that not as resisting and reluctant, but rather as subject to his divine and omnipotent will.”

It is not possible for God to sin.

 

[wanstronian]

I shudder at the thought, where the state of affairs would be to this day with mankind, if he gave into temptation and sinned, if he did not die on the cross for our sins, if the Holy Spirit did not decend onto mankind after he left and if the church was never established.

Our world would be a terrifying place to live in indeed, so, so many graces we take for granted through the ages, revoked entirely. Mankind would be completely enslaved to the dark forces, and what would be considered normal, to us, would be utterly vile.

Possible directions mankind would likely take. We would have thrown out all things pertaining to God, relying entirely upon science as our messiah, and likely, at the expense of our humanity. We would have advanced dramatically technology wise, because that is all our efforts would be on, we would also de-evolve morally, so there would be no limits imposed as to what science can produce. Our thoughts and individual selves would no longer be our own, we would be in a borge like collective, reduced to merely biological machines, and as a race of beings, dead in all matters that count.

We would then conqure the galaxy, or attempt to, and impose our own Godless agenda’s on other worlds, exploiting it all for our collective, selfish needs like a swarm of locusts. We would use any forms of life we see fit to advance our own agenda’s without any concept of remorse for what we do to them, performing experiements on them for our amusement. Our governments would make the Nazi’s look like a bunch of boy scouts.

Man at that stage would be far worse then the animals, for he would be no longer even remotely part of the natural world, he would be unto himself, his own world and the concept of the soul would have no place in his life. And since we no longer had any kind of Salvation, the best we could hope for would to be in direct alignment with the ways of the dark side and our agenda’s would be in all ways, against God.

This fictional account is given, if we have not destroyed every living thing on this earth, which would be a very likely scenereo.

You see what I mean here, the significance of Christ’s life, the fact remains that he had the same choices all of us had, while he was here in the flesh, it was entirely up to him to choose the right thing, to not give into temptation, and his sacrifice along with, very much saved the world and all of mankind including parts of mankind that shun who he is to this day.

What a ridiculous mess of speculation. Do you have a shred of evidence for any of the events you hypothesise? Or do you just “know” it’s how things would be?

For instance, why would we devolve morally without God? We demonstrably don’t get our morals from the bible.

Why would our thoughts not be our own?

Why would we be evil without the idea of God?

Straight into Godwin’s law also, I see. No messing about.

You’re right about one thing - it’s a fictional account. No basis in reality whatsoever.

When it comes down to it, the only reason you believe that Christ didn’t give in to temptation it says so in a book that was written decades after Christ died.

 

[fbl9]

How so? While Christ’s human nature is distinct from His Divine Nature, it is nevertheless impossible that His human will be in conflict with His Divine Will. This was defined by the Third Council of Constantinople: “And these two natural wills are not contrary the one to the other (God forbid!) as the impious heretics assert, but his human will follows and that not as resisting and reluctant, but rather as subject to his divine and omnipotent will.”

It is not possible for God to sin.

Good post:thumbsup:
Christ’s human nature was able to accomplish this because “He was as an unblemished lamb” that is His human nature did not carry the stain of the orginal sin.

Eve was unable to do so because she did not have divine nature.

 

[prodigalson12]

What a ridiculous mess of speculation. Do you have a shred of evidence for any of the events you hypothesise? Or do you just “know” it’s how things would be?

For instance, why would we devolve morally without God? We demonstrably don’t get our morals from the bible.

Why would our thoughts not be our own?

Why would we be evil without the idea of God?

Straight into Godwin’s law also, I see. No messing about.

You’re right about one thing - it’s a fictional account. No basis in reality whatsoever.

When it comes down to it, the only reason you believe that Christ didn’t give in to temptation it says so in a book that was written decades after Christ died.

Look at all of the current society as well as the media behind it. Make your choices from there.

B+

 

[wanstronian]

Look at all of the current society as well as the media behind it. Make your choices from there.

B+

Sorry, I don’t see your point. Nothing in the current state of the world can be taken as any indication of what might have been different if one person had acted differently two thousand years ago.

 

[prodigalson12]

Sorry, I don’t see your point. Nothing in the current state of the world can be taken as any indication of what might have been different if one person had acted differently two thousand years ago.

If the world was left to it’s own devices, I already spoke of the likely scenario in the original post. This would mean, there would be nothing at all to give mankind any reason to have a moral approach to anything, that God, being ommitted from working within mankind would leave everything down to the common denominator, and this is the unadulterated heart of man, his limited insight would have him taking actions, moving forward in terrible horrible ways. The holocaust of WWII would not be an exception, it would be the norm as a prime example, if we were looking into history as an indication of what could be, with God being completely pulled away from all of humanity. You may not have a problem with that, until it itself turned on you as being undesirable and slated for termination by the state for any reason what so ever, including posting on some forum that is geared to make money through advertisement, and you not being in compliance with the theme of it all would automatically make you as a target, simply because you are here voicing your opinions.

The thing you don’t get, Man left to his own devices is a selfish, crewl creature that leans towards his own petty childish desires, often even if it even means taking away others freedoms in the process. It is only when we reach beyond our selves that we begin to have merit, but we really cannot do that without the Grace of God to lead us there. Why on earth bother to help someone if it’s not going to give you gain in your life somewhere, there will be no reward for helping others in this fictional world, because there is no afterlife for us, so what we experience in this life, is all there is, survival of the fittest, and if you have any kind of deformaty, weakness, are up there in age, are the wrong race, wrong gender, wrong political view, wrong anything, you are utterly exterminated from the face of the planet.

 

[wanstronian]

If the world was left to it’s own devices, I already spoke of the likely scenario in the original post. This would mean, there would be nothing at all to give mankind any reason to have a moral approach to anything, that God, being ommitted from working within mankind would leave everything down to the common denominator, and this is the unadulterated heart of man, his limited insight would have him taking actions, moving forward in terrible horrible ways. The holocaust of WWII would not be an exception, it would be the norm as a prime example, if we were looking into history as an indication of what could be, with God being completely pulled away from all of humanity. You may not have a problem with that, until it itself turned on you as being undesirable and slated for termination by the state for any reason what so ever, including posting on some forum that is geared to make money through advertisement, and you not being in compliance with the theme of it all would automatically make you as a target, simply because you are here voicing your opinions.

The thing you don’t get, Man left to his own devices is a selfish, crewl creature that leans towards his own petty childish desires, often even if it even means taking away others freedoms in the process. It is only when we reach beyond our selves that we begin to have merit, but we really cannot do that without the Grace of God to lead us there. Why on earth bother to help someone if it’s not going to give you gain in your life somewhere, there will be no reward for helping others in this fictional world, because there is no afterlife for us, so what we experience in this life, is all there is, survival of the fittest, and if you have any kind of deformaty, weakness, are up there in age, are the wrong race, wrong gender, wrong political view, wrong anything, you are utterly exterminated from the face of the planet.

Okay, I understand. And strenuously disagree.

I don’t really see any logic in your speculation, but recognise that you are using a hypothetical worldview to reinforce your speculative belief in an unproven God.

It would, admittedly, be interesting to see what sort of world we would live in today without the belief in God, however foundless such belief may be. Personally I have a far less pessimistic view of mankind as a whole, than you do. I think that the main difference would be that we’d all get along better - after all, the only thing you can say with any certainty is that without religion, there’d be one less differentiator. In any event, you’re in no better position than me to judge what the ‘likely scenario’ would be.

And the idea that we only help each other in this life so that we can be rewarded in the next, is outmoded and fallacious, not to mention extremely depressing. And it doesn’t explain my motivation at all. I don’t believe in an afterlife, yet I’m still a good person. How does your hypothesis account for me and all the other people that happen not to believe in God? Do you assume we do nothing but look out for number one at every opportunity?

 

[prodigalson12]

Okay, I understand. And strenuously disagree.

I don’t really see any logic in your speculation, but recognise that you are using a hypothetical worldview to reinforce your

I’m not using it to reinforce what I already know, I’m discussing this as something that could be quite interesting to talk about, and for no other purpose.

speculative belief in an unproven God.

Prove to me how my beliefs are speculative.

It would, admittedly, be interesting to see what sort of world we would live in today without the belief in God, however foundless such belief may be. Personally I have a far less pessimistic view of mankind as a whole, than you do. I think that the main difference would be that we’d all get along better - after all, the only thing you can say with any certainty is that without religion, there’d be one less differentiator. In any event, you’re in no better position than me to judge what the ‘likely scenario’ would be.

I nowhere judge the future, I don’t think it’s actually possible for one to do so. You are also quite free to create your own thread along what would mankind would be like if nobody believed in God anymore… That’s off topic when it comes down to it.

I do agree with you, along your opinion of mankind is different then mine, mine is not only biblical, it’s based upon the real life, the real world we all experience, both in the now and throughout history, why would the future some how radically change for the good if God himself is removed from it? Perhaps that should be your focus upon, if you opt to follow my lead and create that thread.

And the idea that we only help each other in this life so that we can be rewarded in the next, is outmoded and fallacious, not to mention extremely depressing.

There is great reward for it in this life, don’t get me wrong there, but it has to be done within proper context. Example, what if someone were to hack into your bank account, drain it all and send it to some charity. Would you press charges against the individual? Hey, they did something good, you could probably recover your funds eventually and since you are working, be on your way in short order. Yet, some how I’d feel, you rightfully so, would feel cheated. You see, that kind of context is what we get from taking a spiritual approach to things. If mankind was different by default, we all would give to the poor, never worry about it if our own lives took a spiral downwards, knowing full well, someone else would give to us in our time of need, but the reality is entirely different and it’s still the default mankind looking out for himself individually, not collectively, and we as Christians try to look at it collectively. Our approach itself, the model, if all followed, no where would any body been in want or need of anything at all.

And it doesn’t explain my motivation at all. I don’t believe in an afterlife, yet I’m still a good person. How does your hypothesis account for me and all the other people that happen not to believe in God? Do you assume we do nothing but look out for number one at every opportunity?

Who said you are a good person? What standard do you gauge or model it upon, what is your criteria? How does your model of this apply 2000 years ago, how will it likely apply 2000 years from now? How many people have tested this model and found it to be true, tried and blameless? And within this model, have you taken into account every conceivable variance for all of mankind in all of his stations in life? Right now, I am acting upon faith that deep down you are a good person, or at least, the potential to become a good person, so will simply give you the benefit of the doubt and the only thing I have to go upon, is some texts you posted in this little forum. It’s easy for me to do, it’s because there are some things I’ll never find an answer for in this life, and I simply leave it in God’s hands and have faith that he has my best interest in mind, just as he has proven to me in the past to be so true.

I do not assume you do nothing but look out for number one at every opportunity. But, honestly, outside of learning from us here, what possible gain can you get by derrailing some persons spiritual beliefs? Do we believers cause so much trouble in your life, you decide to spend time trying to get them to no longer believe? It is either that, or something in side of you sees what we have and desires to acquire it for themselves, yet doesn’t know how to go about it.

I’m going to give you a little bit more to know more along what we actually have that’s going to give you even more incentive to do so, if the latter is the case, regardless if you admit it here, or to yourself or not. You go through life alone, an island unto yourself, even with having wife and family, it’s all you, and you alone in the journey. We go through life with his presence, his companionship, and during times where we are physically utterly alone, we recognize and feel his presence, we are absolutely never alone, not ever. We also experience a peace of mind that cannot be reproduced on any level within any kind of material gain. Think about this in comparison. You win all of the worlds lotteries, you own a continent, your wildest dreams, all just laid at your feet with complete and total success in absolutely all areas. This is the kind of peace you could use in comparison. You are used to dealing with an entirely different model, that if you could walk in a true believers shoes long enough, even if it was only experiencing the joy they felt, you would want to do anything you could, just to reproduce those same feelings.

There is more, much more I can convey here, but I’ve already gone way, way off topic, and I feel, others would enjoy continuing the discussion.

 

[benedictus2]

What a ridiculous mess of speculation. Do you have a shred of evidence for any of the events you hypothesise? Or do you just “know” it’s how things would be?

For instance, why would we devolve morally without God? We demonstrably don’t get our morals from the bible.

You need to study history it seems.. Western morality is Biblical morality until of course the sons and daughters of mordernish and deconstructionism little by little started foisting upon us their own version of (IM)morality.
Why would our thoughts not be our own?

Why would we be evil without the idea of God?
Because without God everything is permissible.

Straight into Godwin’s law also, I see. No messing about.

You’re right about one thing - it’s a fictional account. No basis in reality whatsoever.

When it comes down to it, the only reason you believe that Christ didn’t give in to temptation it says so in a book that was written decades after Christ died.

True in a way. The Bible does require faith. But so does I presume whatever it is you adhere to which probably has a lot less going for it .

And while the Bible may not be a historical book it has historical basis. Whether it was written by Christ’s followers after He died is beside the point. Most biographies are, by the way.

 

[benedictus2]

I shudder at the thought, where the state of affairs would be to this day with mankind, if he gave into temptation and sinned, if he did not die on the cross for our sins, if the Holy Spirit did not decend onto mankind after he left and if the church was never established.

Simple really. There would be no salvation and all that entails. If Jesus had given in to temptation then He would not have been the God that came to save the world.

And this is probably the harder points of Christianity to comprehend, they hypostatic union of Christ’s Humanity and His Divinity; that Jesus is both fully Human and fully Divine. This along with the Trinity J

And if He had sinned then there would be no Bible to speak of and we would not even know of God who is Abba.

Our world would be a terrifying place to live in indeed, so, so many graces we take for granted through the ages, revoked entirely. Mankind would be completely enslaved to the dark forces, and what would be considered normal, to us, would be utterly vile.

As was the case in Mexico with child sacrficies before Our Lady of Guadalupe appeared to Juan Diego and caused the conversion of the nation.

Possible directions mankind would likely take. We would have thrown out all things pertaining to God, relying entirely upon science as our messiah, and likely, at the expense of our humanity.

We would have advanced dramatically technology wise, because that is all our efforts would be on,

As for advancing dramatically technology wise I doubt that very much. If you look at the history of science much of the advancement was accomplished in the Western / Christian world.

Although a large part of the scientific community is in denial, science flourished under Chrisitianity.

we would also de-evolve morally, so there would be no limits imposed as to what science can produce. Our thoughts and individual selves would no longer be our own, we would be in a borge like collective, reduced to merely biological machines, and as a race of beings, dead in all matters that count.

There would still be natural good. What it would mean though is that we would still be waiting for the Messiah in the same way the Jews still do.

All this would mean is that we would still be under the Old Covenant.

And if you we want to know what Godlessness would be like, well, it is quite evident in our western society now. Just imagine the millions of babies killed in their mother’s wombs.

Man at that stage would be far worse then the animals, for he would be no longer even remotely part of the natural world, he would be unto himself, his own world and the concept of the soul would have no place in his life.

Not quite. There would still be natural good. What Jesus brought with Him is the supernatural good.

This is where Protestant and Catholic understanding of the fall is different. Calvinistic (not sure if this is Lutheran as well) view of the fall is that man became completely corrupt / totally vile. But Catholic understand is different. While fallen, man is still capable of natural good.

And since we no longer had any kind of Salvation, the best we could hope for would to be in direct alignment with the ways of the dark side and our agenda’s would be in all ways, against God.

Not quite again. Because God is Love, we would still be under the Law, waiting for the Light to the Gentiles and the Glory of His people Israel.