What would invalidate an Ordination

[cadet17]

I know there is a difference between illicit and invalid. In what cases would an ordination be invalid. Primarily regarding sedevacantist groups, which I’m told some have valid ordinations like SSPV and others do not.

 

[dshix]

I know there is a difference between illicit and invalid. In what cases would an ordination be invalid. Primarily regarding sedevacantist groups, which I’m told some have valid ordinations like SSPV and others do not.

The answer to your first question would be “an ordination is invalid in every case that one of the requirements is missing”, and so the better question is: “What are the requirements for a valid ordination?”

The answer can be found here: vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/__P3Q.HTM

However, you are also asking specifically about sedevacantist groups. The answer is that validly ordained bishops can ordain other priests and bishops, even without the permission of the Pope (though it is a great sin and automatic excommunication to do so) and so long as a sect separated from the Church retains apostolic succession, they retain the valid priesthood.

 

[Micosil]

…and so long as a sect separated from the Church retains apostolic succession, they retain the valid priesthood.

This is not strictly true in all cases; while valid Apostolic succession is necessary for valid priesthood (Holy Orders), it is not sufficient; if proper form and/or intent is lost, the sacraments that require an ordained cleric, including Holy Orders, are forfeited. This was the case for the Church of England; there came a point when they lost Apostolic succession when no validly consecrated bishop remained, even if the first bishops to ordain/consecrate without proper form and/or intent were actual bishops in the line of Apostolic succession – the ordinations that they conferred on people was not valid, and it carried on till no validly consecrated bishop remained.

For a valid ordination to take place, there must be valid minister, subject, form, matter, and intent. If any of these five elements are lacking, the ordination is not valid.

 

[dshix]

This is not strictly true in all cases; while valid Apostolic succession is necessary for valid priesthood (Holy Orders), it is not sufficient; if proper form and/or intent is lost, the sacraments that require an ordained cleric, including Holy Orders, are forfeited. This was the case for the Church of England; there came a point when they lost Apostolic succession when no validly consecrated bishop remained, even if the first bishops to ordain/consecrate without proper form and/or intent were actual bishops in the line of Apostolic succession – the ordinations that they conferred on people was not valid, and it carried on till no validly consecrated bishop remained.

For a valid ordination to take place, there must be valid minister, subject, form, matter, and intent. If any of these five elements are lacking, the ordination is not valid.

Very true; thanks for the clarification.

 

[TheDoctor]

Micosil gave a very good explanation and I cannot add anything however you mentioned SSPV and valid ordinations.

If I recall correctly, SSPV broke off from SSPX but none of the SSPX bishops went with them. Because they have validly ordained Bishops, SSPX ordinations are valid but illicit, however without any bishops, SSPV ordinations would be invalid in all cases.