What would prove God doesn't exist?

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I don’t really think you could prove God’s nonexistence - not in this universe anyway. It’s practically impossible to make a definitive statement about something that you can’t even perceive accurately in allegorical terms.
 
Even if one could prove God does not exist now, that would not necessarily prove some sort of a Supreme Being never existed, would it?
 
Don5925 said:
Even if one could prove God does not exist now, that would not necessarily prove some sort of a Supreme Being never existed, would it?
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It is difficult to understand how the Supreme Being could be finite rather than eternal.
There are only four possibilities:
  1. God had a beginning and will have an end.
  2. God had a beginning and will have no end.
  3. God had no beginning and will have an end.
  4. God had no beginning and will have no end.
#1 and #2 pose the problem of the origin of God.
#1 and #3 pose the problem of the demise of God.
#4 is the most logical because it is the simplest.
 
tonyrey said:
If natural events caused an excessive amount of suffering and an excessive number of deaths they would be overwhelming evidence that a loving Father doesn’t exist. Leibnitz remarked that houses are far more numerous than hpspitals. If the vast majority of animals and human beings were blind, deaf, dumb, deformed, disabled, diseased, insane and in constant agony I’m sure you would wonder why had God created a hell on earth! Even the strongest faith would be severely tested…
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There is a difference between that which would cause us to lose our faith, and an occurence which literally could not happen in the presence of a God. Since the Bible reported a flood which wiped out all life except in the sea and in the ark we’d have to rule out disasters as true candidates. Even if the world were destroyed a non-christian God could still possibly exist.
 
Of course, that pre-supposes that our Supreme Being is the Supreme Being and not part of god-like race. And then, what might have caused this race? The whole question is a fun intellectual exercise, I think; but I always come back to my faith. Funny isn’t it? No matter the learning I do or the degrees earned, I come back to something that is felt more than purely reasoned.
 
Hokomai said:
Widespread belief in different gods; an apparent inability by the god(s) to reveal themselves in a way which convinces people who do not already believe, scriptures which are said to be inspired but are open to many interpretations, religious organisations that prove to be no better, even on the issues they hold most dear, than secular organisations, constant redefinition of god(s) to accommodate the advance of science and other knowledge; a failure of believers to identify a mechanism by which the alleged spirit makes contact with the physical brains of people to create faith; the fact that if there is a god(s), god must condone the suffering of innocent animals… But actually I don’t think all that disproves the existence of god(s) - just makes it most unlikely.
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Notice my original post addresses the question to fellow believers. It’s not that I discourage debate on the existence of God, it’s just that it’s outside the topic of the thread, which is basically whether or not God is falsifiable to theists.
 
brotherjoe said:
If natural events caused an excessive amount of suffering and an excessive number of deaths they would be overwhelming evidence that a loving Father doesn’t exist. Leibnitz remarked that houses are far more numerous than hpspitals. If the vast majority of animals and human beings were blind, deaf, dumb, deformed, disabled, diseased, insane and in constant agony I’m sure you would wonder why had God created a hell on earth! Even the strongest faith would be severely tested…
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The OP was addressed to fellow believers - which implies the Loving Father not a non-Christian God…
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Jmd96 said:
Notice my original post addresses the question to fellow believers. It’s not that I discourage debate on the existence of God, it’s just that it’s outside the topic of the thread, which is basically whether or not God is falsifiable to theists.
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Jmd:

So the question would be, “What would the world look like if there were no God?” Perhaps it wouldn’t look any different than this one (with a finite number of exceptions).

God bless,
jd
 
JDaniel said:
Jmd:

An NDE wherein I was able to discover conclusively that there was nothing on the other side. However, as close as that might be to encourage me to lose my religiosity, even that might not do it completely. E.g., perhaps had I been really dead, by being dead just a little longer, I might have caught a glimpse of the other side. But, it would be close.

God bless,
jd
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There could always be a God without an afterlife.
 
Perplexity said:
I typed out an explication of the strongest one I know of; but, this seems like the wrong thread. Maybe I could email it to you, or just start a thread on it.
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A thread would be excellent. It wouldn’t be fair to have it all to myself! 😉
 
Jmd96 said:
For fellow believers, what’s something hypothetical that would convince you that God doesn’t exist?

God bless,
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I truly can’t imagine how a person could ever “prove” the negative proposition that “God doesn’t exist.” I mean, how would a person go about obtaining the evidence, or information that would lead to obtaining the evidence, to show that God, who by definition not only created the universe but also dwells both within and without the dimensions of space and time, does not exist? That sounds like an omniscient task to me.
 
shoe said:
I truly can’t imagine how a person could ever “prove” the negative proposition that “God doesn’t exist.” I mean, how would a person go about obtaining the evidence, or information that would lead to obtaining the evidence, to show that God, who by definition not only created the universe but also dwells both within and without the dimensions of space and time, does not exist? That sounds like an omniscient task to me.
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It is impossible to prove that God doesn’t exist unless it can be shown that the concept of God is self-contradictory but if it could be shown that the suffering in the world is excessive it would be evidence that belief in the Christian God of love is implausible.
 
tonyrey said:
if it could be shown that the suffering in the world is excessive it would be evidence that belief in the Christian God of love is implausible.
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Excessive, in this context means to go beyond that which is morally justified. But in order for this argument to be valid you would have to admit that there is an objective standard by which we can understand something to be truly and objectively excessive in a moral sense. In other-words, objective moral law would have to exist, and thus so would the God whose nature is perfect love; since it is only in-respect of love that an act is truly selfish.

Its impossible to reject Gods existence given any true knowledge of immorality, because by invoking that very same knowledge you are paradoxically proving his existence. The best that somebody can say is that God does not fit with their subjective idea of what they would like a good God to be. But this is hardly an argument against Gods existence, precisely because their argument is purely subjective and has no meaning objectively.

The argument amounts to “we don’t like pain, therefore we don’t like the God who created the possibility of it.”

While it maybe difficult to show how the existence of God and evil are compatible, this can never be anything more than an epistemological conundrum, because evil, right and wrong, excessive or otherwise, is a privation of objective goodness. Evil cannot be used to rationally disprove God.

I believe in the God of love precisely because i see true moral evil in the world.
 
brotherjoe said:
There could always be a God without an afterlife.
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Brotherjoe:

What kind of God? Buddhist, Hindu, non-denominational? It certainly wouldn’t be the one we’re expecting. But, I guess there could be that strange god that his creations are oblivious to.

God bless,
jd
 
Jmd96 said:
For fellow believers, what’s something hypothetical that would convince you that God doesn’t exist?

God bless,
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I’m not a believer, but I’ve watched some one else become convinced that there are no gods. I don’t think there’s any universal motivator that would affect every one the same way. In her case her deconversion was motivated by some events that occurred when she was in one of the most desperate periods of her life. She tried seeking help from some other Christians at her church and and some other churches. But she didn’t find the assistance they provided (prayer) to be of any value. Before she fell into foreclosure both myself and another non-believer tooked care of her mortgage and a few other bills for a few months. Later she was able to find a job and things became stable.

I don’t think the experienced “proved” anything about Yahweh. Nor do I see it as being representational of all churches. But it motivated her to re-evaluate why she believed what she believed . At the end of her evaluation she nolonger believed in the god of Christianity. She still has some spiritual beliefs, but no gods are part of them.
 
It’s worth pointing out that, at least in principle, the subject of the OP and the OP itself are asking two distinct questions.

As has been said already, God’s existence cannot be disproven. Which is not to say that a Believer could not have their beliefs changed by evidence that didn’t rise to the level of proof.
 
MindOverMatter2 said:
Yes? Thats my name don’t wear it out …oh sorry, i thought you were talking about me there for second. One can only hope that one day my creation will know me.😃
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Sorry, MoM, I though you were still incognito. 🙂

God bless,
jd
 
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