What would shake your faith?

[chris_molter]

I was discussing Christianity with my close friend (an avowed ex-Catholic atheist, although not the crazy ‘evangelical’ type), and remarked to him that of all the world religions, Christianity is the EASIEST of all religions to debunk.

All you have to do is produce Jesus’ body.

Provide scientific or overwhelming historical evidence that Jesus’ remains are there outside Jerusalem somewhere and I’ll stop being Christian.

That’s where I would draw the line. Anyone else have something that would cause them to cease believing?

 

[VociMike]

Your answer is a good one.

My answer would be if I died and found out I really was dead. I’d definitely stop believing at that point.

 

[BRB]

Paul teaches nothing can shake our faith … if it is firmly rooted in Christ.

What if a terrorist bomb blew up NYC ?

What if an asteroid hits the earth and causes Nuclear Winter ?

Perhaps if we experienced the trials of Job … some would throw in the towel. But, we are told God won’t test someone beyond their strength capacity.

 

[Newbie2]

I was discussing Christianity with my close friend (an avowed ex-Catholic atheist, although not the crazy ‘evangelical’ type), and remarked to him that of all the world religions, Christianity is the EASIEST of all religions to debunk.

All you have to do is produce Jesus’ body.

Provide scientific or overwhelming historical evidence that Jesus’ remains are there outside Jerusalem somewhere and I’ll stop being Christian.

That’s where I would draw the line. Anyone else have something that would cause them to cease believing?

I can’t think of anything.

Even finding "Jesus’ " body…how could anyone ever prove it was him? No DNA, no historical evidence that his tomb was marked or identified as his…too much time and history to overcome to prove such a claim.

 

[Nullasalus]

I’d give a similar answer, though I’d stipulate: If Christ did not rise from the dead, then I’d likely have to yield Christianity/Catholicism. But, oddly enough, that would not impact my belief in God in a broader sense - and I always find it bizarre that people claim to switch from a belief in Christianity to atheism (or close to it) purely due to doubting Christianity.

Oddly enough, Saint Paul would back me up on this. 1 Corinthians 15, 11-15:

"11 For whether I, or they, so we preach, and so you have believed. 12 Now if Christ be preached, that he arose again from the dead, how do some among you say, that there is no resurrection of the dead? 13 But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then Christ is not risen again. 14 And if Christ be not risen again, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain. 15 Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God: because we have given testimony against God, that he hath raised up Christ; whom he hath not raised up, if the dead rise not again. "

I think the implications for what Paul says here are staggering, and beneficial to the Christian faith. Something to ponder, I suppose.

 

[adstrinity]

Finding out that the Catholic Church did things for political or some other type of gain but the Orthodox Church has held fast.

 

[Shredderbeam]

If nothing will shake one’s faith, then there is no sense debating. They have declared a priori that they will not be swayed.

 

[cranster]

I was discussing Christianity with my close friend (an avowed ex-Catholic atheist, although not the crazy ‘evangelical’ type), and remarked to him that of all the world religions, Christianity is the EASIEST of all religions to debunk.

All you have to do is produce Jesus’ body.

Provide scientific or overwhelming historical evidence that Jesus’ remains are there outside Jerusalem somewhere and I’ll stop being Christian.

That’s where I would draw the line. Anyone else have something that would cause them to cease believing?

The Sanhedrin of A.D. 33 put a lot of energy in making sure Jesus was executed. They also put a lot of energy into making sure that tomb was secure after His death. They had Pilate place a guard at the tomb which in my understanding was about 12 men. I’ve also read that there was a Roman seal on the tomb. I believe it was a rope fastened by wax to the tomb and the stone covering the tomb, Breaking a Roman seal was punishable by death. Nothing would have stopped that little heretical Jewish sect faster than producing a body, and God knows they made every effort to make sure it wasn’t taken. It would surely have resigned the whole Christian episode as a minor footnote in history.

Their silence and inability to produce a body screams across history.

 

[Rick09]

I don’t think there’s anything that could rationally shake my faith. Emotionally? I don’t know.

They say you never know how you’re going to react in war until your actually in the middle of it. If something terribly catastrophic happened, I can’t say for sure how I’d react. But I know that rationally speaking, I can’t think of anything that would be certain enough “proof” against Christ. Part of that is colored by experience. I’ve seen so much “certain truth” from men turn out to be bunk.

And I completely agree with nullasalus about God, in general. It takes more faith to be an atheist than a theist.

 

[fbl9]

The only thing that would (and does) shake my faith is my own sinfulness…if i truly loved God then i wouldn’t be sinning type thoughts

 

[CentralFLJames]

Here are the top few things that would shake me up:

1. Someone digs up Luther’s corpse and finds it to be uncorrupted…
2. Finding a Jewish manuscript that proved the Apostle Paul was a Rabbinical operative who was sent on a mission to deflect the Christus cult away from the Jews and to push it to the Gentiles.
3. Someone locates Abraham’s grave and finds an inheritance record giving everything to Ishmael.
4. One day Mohammad descends on Temple Mound carrying a large scimitar. After surveying Jerusalem he starts grinning evilly and laughing hysterically, then starts writing new fatwas.

James

 

[chris_molter]

I can’t think of anything.

Even finding "Jesus’ " body…how could anyone ever prove it was him? No DNA, no historical evidence that his tomb was marked or identified as his…too much time and history to overcome to prove such a claim.

I agree it would be nigh impossible to actually garner such ‘proof’, however, it’s a hypothetical question. Let’s assume our forensic technology had advanced significantly, or there was an archeological find that somehow DID point specifically to Jesus of Nazareth’s earthly remains.

But, oddly enough, that would not impact my belief in God in a broader sense - and I always find it bizarre that people claim to switch from a belief in Christianity to atheism (or close to it) purely due to doubting Christianity.

I agree, although I would have a much harder time with the exclusivist claims of the Judeo-Christian God. I’d probably wind up some kind of panentheist or syncretist.

 

[Michael_David]

You say, "what would SHAKE your faith?

For me, things that did shake my faith:
Fighting in a war as a front line soldier and not only seeing the ‘man’s inhumanity toward man’ being done, but being a part of it through the survival instinct for one’s own personal life. The conscience condemns one after the fact (PTS) as there is no way to right the wrongs (amends). Yes, one is alive (physically), but dead (spiritually)… with the mind messed up in the middle.

Another: loosing your child. Even though you think you have done everything in your power not to have it happen, one’s conscience still condemns one. The child is under your responsibility… and you botched it! Again, no way to right the wrongs (amend). And, this is backward to how nature should run… first in, first out… not, last in, first out.

Whether there are (valid) wrongs or not, does not seem to matter to the individual conscience… and one is most definitely Shaken! How one gets back in God’s good graces (if they can and do), is a personal journey not unlike those in the Bible.

 

[Church_Militant]

I think about this a good bit.

I’ve been through some pretty seriously messed up things.

However, I did find that it all drew me to turn to God rather than away from Him. After all, it has usually been my own sins that have caused me the most grief.

What would shake my faith?

I really have no idea, but I have read some of the ECF and I gotta tell ya, these guys are my heroes.

I mean I think about all that unscriptural “Rapture” stuff, which is (IMO) some sort of chicken security blanket/escape pod and then look at what the ECF went through and I decide that I want to be like them and go out faithful whatever comes my way.

Look at what St. Polycarp went through.

But the most admirable Polycarp, when he first heard [that he was sought for], was in no measure disturbed, but resolved to continue in the city.
…
CHAP. IX.–POLYCARP REFUSES TO REVILE CHRIST.

Now, as Polycarp was entering into the stadium, there came to him a voice from heaven, saying, “Be strong, and show thyself a man, O Polycarp !” No one saw who it was that spoke to him; but those of our brethren who were present heard the voice. And as he was brought forward, the tumult became great when they heard that Polycarp was taken. And when he came near, the proconsul asked him whether he was Polycarp. On his confessing that he was, [the proconsul] sought to persuade him to deny [Christ], saying, “Have respect to thy old age,” and other similar things, according to their custom, [such as]," Swear by the fortune of Caesar; repent, and say, Away with the Atheists." But Polycarp, gazing with a stern countenance on all the multitude of the wicked heathen then in the stadium, and waving his hand towards them, while with groans he looked up to heaven, said, “Away with the Atheists.”(5) Then, the proconsul urging him, and saying, “Swear, and I will set thee at liberty, reproach Christ;” Polycarp declared, “Eighty and six years have I served Him, and He never did me any injury: how then can I blaspheme my King and my Saviour?”
…
CHAP. XI.–NO THREATS HAVE ANY EFFECT ON POLYCARP.

The proconsul then said to him, “I have wild beasts at hand ; to these will I cast thee, except thou repent.” But he answered, “Call them then, for we are not accustomed to repent of what is good in order to adopt that which is evil;(9) and it is well for me to be changed from what is evil to what is righteous.”(10) But again the proconsul said to him, “I will cause thee to be consumed by fire, seeing thou despisest the wild beasts, if thou wilt not repent.” But Polycarp said, “Thou threatenest me with fire which burneth for an hour, and after a little is extinguished, but art ignorant of the fire of the coming judgment and of eternal punishment, reserved for the ungodly. But why tarriest thou? Bring forth what thou wilt.”
…
But when they were about also to fix him with nails, he said, “Leave me as I am; for He that giveth me strength to endure the fire, will also enable me, without your securing me by nails, to remain without moving in the pile.”
…
They did not nail him then, but simply bound him. And he, placing his hands behind him, and being bound like a distinguished ram [taken] out of a great flock for sacrifice, and prepared to be an acceptable burnt-offering unto God, looked up to heaven, and said, “O Lord God Almighty, the Father of thy beloved and blessed Son Jesus Christ, by whom we have received the knowledge of Thee, the God of angels and powers, and of every creature, and of the whole race of the righteous who live before thee, I give Thee thanks that Thou hast counted me, worthy of this day and this hour, that I should have a part in the number of Thy martyrs, in the cup(3) of thy Christ, to the resurrection of eternal life, both of soul and body, through the incorruption [imparted] by the Holy Ghost. Among whom may I be accepted this day before Thee as a fat(4) and acceptable sacrifice, according as Thou, the ever-truthful(5) God, hast fore-ordained, hast revealed beforehand to me, and now hast fulfilled. Wherefore also I praise Thee for all things, I bless Thee, I glorify Thee, along with the everlasting and heavenly Jesus Christ, Thy beloved Son, with whom, to Thee, and the Holy Ghost, be glory both now and to all coming ages. Amen.”(6)
…
When he had pronounced this amen, and so finished his prayer, those who were appointed for the purpose kindled the fire. And as the flame blazed forth in great fury,(7) we, to whom it was given to witness it, beheld a great miracle, and have been preserved that we might report to others what then took place. For the fire, shaping itself into the form of an arch, like the sail of a ship when filled with the wind, encompassed as by a circle the body of the martyr. And he appeared within not like flesh which is burnt, but as bread that is baked, or as gold and silver glowing in a furnace. Moreover, we perceived such a sweet odour [coming from the pile], as if frankincense or some such precious spices had been smoking(8) there.
…
At length, when those wicked men perceived that his body could not be consumed by the fire, they commanded an executioner to go near and pierce him through with a dagger. And on his doing this, there came forth a dove,(9) and a great quantity of blood, so that the fire was extinguished; and all the people wondered that there should be such a difference between the unbelievers and the elect, of whom this most admirable Polycarp was one, having in our own times been an apostolic and prophetic teacher, and bishop of the Catholic Church which is in Smyrna. For every word that went out of his mouth either has been or shall yet be accomplished.

 

[Randy_Carson]

Finding out that the Catholic Church did things for political or some other type of gain but the Orthodox Church has held fast.

I hate to break it to you, but the Catholic Church HAS done things for political or some other type of gain.

However, that in and of itself does not disqualify her from being the one true Church.

 

[Church_Militant]

I guess I want to be like him and those other martyrs. I want to go out strong and faithful and knowing who’s waiting for me on the other side of whatever I suffer.

How can my faith be too much shaken if I stay focused on that?

It worked for Polycarp.