What would you do? (For eastern Catholics)

[A_O]

Hello!

A lot of discussion has been going on lately about the loss of tradition is the Latin rite, and understandably many Latin Catholics have become agitated and upset.

If radical changes or Latinizations were imposed on Eastern Catholic liturgies, how would you react? (I.E. Icons replaced with statues, instruments utilized during mass, removal of chant from the Divine Liturgy, a new unifying liturgy imposed on said churches?)
I’m wondering because I’ve heard a lot of Orthodox are still ‘iffy’ about Rome, and that if this would happen most would prefer an Orthodox parish.

Thanks very much, blessings,
A&O

 

[Patchunky]

CHRISTOS VOSKRES!

The Byzantine Rite has and is under going change in the Divine Liturgy. We have been removing the Latinizations that were allowed to creep into our Divine Liturgy.

We have had some people leave and we have had some come back. Most have accepted the changes once they were explained.

Our churches are also under going a change as the Latinazations that were allowed in many of them when they were first constructed are being removed; i.e. stations of the cross, no ikonostas, Latin-style pre-Vactican II altars with multiple steps, things like that…

We are even seeing a resurgence of the use of Old Church Slavonic among the young people!!!

More and more of our parishes are offering Vespers on Saturday evenings as well as other Divine services to give our communities more of our Eastern traditions.

Hope this helps…

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

Hello!

A lot of discussion has been going on lately about the loss of tradition is the Latin rite, and understandably many Latin Catholics have become agitated and upset.

If radical changes or Latinizations were imposed on Eastern Catholic liturgies, how would you react? (I.E. Icons replaced with statues, instruments utilized during mass, removal of chant from the Divine Liturgy, a new unifying liturgy imposed on said churches?)
I’m wondering because I’ve heard a lot of Orthodox are still ‘iffy’ about Rome, and that if this would happen most would prefer an Orthodox parish.

Thanks very much, blessings,
A&O

Your about 75 or 85 years late on this poll.

In the 1920’s and 1930’s this happened to our Churches.

That is extensive latinizations occured. They tore down the iconostasis, they put in statues, they put in kneelers, they started the rosary and other latin devotions (like stations of the cross), they forbid our tradition of ordaining married men to the priesthood. Some left our Churches, whole parishes left, but many also stayed.

Now we are returning to our traditions.

I know where your going with this poll but it is not the samething as happened us as what has happened with Vatican II.

Frist, this was imposed upon us by Latin Bishops with out a Council.

That does not compare in any way to the Tridentine Mass situtation.

It seems that many of the “rad-Trads” perfer it that way, the latinizations, as they somehow believe that the Latin way is the superior way. Just look at the SSPX and the Transalpine Redemptorists. This is a (so-called) bi-ritual group started by the SSPX but it is a very latinized group.

The SSPX superior has also had some very unchariable things to say about Byzantines.

 

[A_O]

Thank you both for the responses.

 

[Hesychios]

Glory to Jesus Christ!

I respect the opinions of the first two respondents, and agree.

One point I should like to make is that if the Latinizations were reintroduced now, some Byzantine Catholics would be content because they grew up with them and have a sense of nostalgia about it. Their long gone great-grandparents had already lived through the heartbreak of seeing the traditions eroded away. Many of the younger Byzantines are all fired up over the restorations though, and we are entering a new springtime for Byzantine traditions.

As we can see Eastern Catholic churches have been the subject of that sort of abuse in the past, and it has indeed resulted in large numbers of Byzantine-rite Catholics going over to the Orthodox churches. In fact, many of the most vocal Orthodox posters you will find here or elsewhere have family histories in union with Rome, and know from which they speak.

In other words, on the part of the Orthodox we aren’t dealing with idle speculation, inordinate suspicion, a “worst case scenario” or anything like that. We are speaking of real experience of families who have lived through the sort of oppression and abuse asked about in post #1.

In addition, the doctrine of Universal Jurisdiction as promulgated in Vatican I leaves open the possibility that it could all happen again! Rome insists on (and preserves) it’s rights to intervene in any way in any church anywhere. That’s a pretty tough assessment but undeniably true.

In fact, the truth is the Eastern churches today are recovering their traditions at the behest of Rome, principally through the work of Vatican Council II and the efforts of recent Popes. Some of the Eastern Catholic churches are simply unable to undertake such sweeping reforms under their own authority (possibly excepting the Melkites). The Popes must throw their own weight and prestige behind the restoration efforts even in opposition to members of the Curia and some hierarchs in the Eastern Churches themselves.

None of this is lost upon the Orthodox who have been observing this process for 400 years at least (in the case of Italy, they have been observing the fate of their coreligionists for nearly 1000 years).

Orthodox Christians will not be pursueded by promises from Rome, they will accept nothing less than guarantees. Thus it seems that nothing less than a modification or repudiation of the doctrine of Universal Jurisdiction will be necessary to bring about an organic unity of the church East and West.

Alternatively, we might approach this without the goal of organic unity, but shared communion only. This still would raise difficulties because Orthodox are unable to share communion with church bodies they view as teaching heresy, and we are back to the fundamental objections that prevent an organic union.

+T+
Michael