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Pieman333272
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That under nihilism, if life stinks, quit.Obviously he’d be ready for a new one, no? What point are you trying to make?
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Betterave
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I don’t get it: why not get a new car? What does nihilism have to do with it?
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Pieman333272
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AT was using the car as an allegory for human life under nihilism.
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cathoichelp
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This is more or less my experience -
It was proven to me in my life that the God I was taught about didn’t exist - so I spent literally years - reading … talking to people of all different faiths -
I don’t totally know if I believe in “god” at all. Some days I do more than others haha-
I have more proven to myself what I find incorrect and thus most of my beliefs are pulled from more than one theology- because I find some truth in a lot of theology - rather than total truth in one - Instead of black and white wrong and right ‘rules’ of conduct so to speak I life by principals of behavior … how to handle myself - rather than this is always right this is always wrong -
I guess I am mostly eastern (very buddhist) in my theology -
I told my boyfriend (who is Catholic) when he asked what I was going to do when I met God … I said God could come down here at any second and have coffee w me and his existence would not change the way I live. I am not fearful -
I didn’t pull lifestyle choices and theology from out of nowhere. My entire life experience… and studying has brought me to where I am -
My beliefs are not dependent on there being a God - My morality is based in logic not fear of the after life - And I do not feel threatened by the fact that there could in fact be a God …
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warpspeedpetey
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Just out of curiosity, how did you derive a moral system from a logical system?
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Betterave
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No he wasn’t; he was using the car as an example of something that really is valuable but only for as long as it is valued.
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Betterave
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Are you saying that Buddhists don’t have rules of right conduct?? What kind of Buddhism are you into? Mahayana? Therevada? Zen? Can you give some actual examples of what you draw from these various ‘theologies,’ what it means to say that you are “mostly eastern (very buddhist)” in your theology?
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cathoichelp
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Haha… To put it simply - certain things that were taught to me as black and white right and wrong did not logically make any sense.
So in exploring those things … I let my life experience guide me in a logical fashion… this teaching defies logic - lets test - yea I don’t believe that — ect
I was raised Catholic - one event shook my faith which was very traumatic. But I took my time leaving the church… I actually studied for over 2 years before deciding not that there was NO God - just that it’s not this God - if that makes sense.
Its been a slow practice -
As for Buddhism - there are right and wrongs I suppose in most organized religions - I don;t actually follow an organized religion I do believe in the principals of Buddhism which more gives you an approach for handling the world - then a this is THAT and that is THIS - if that makes sense -
I tend to move away from mediation though - I do follow some of the teachings of nichiren Buddhism-
I do not chant though -
But this sect varies in the importance put on a person taking action - personal empowerment contributes to peace -
You can read about the 10 principals if you are so inclined or i can elaborate if you want
but as i said i don’t totally follow a single faith I believe greatly in karma -
I believe in right action as well -
(respect tolerance self control honesty compassion generosity)
I also have taken some Hindu beliefs as well as Tibetan -
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AntiTheist
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Yes. And if you like raising a family and pitching in in the community, devote yourself to that; and if you like collecting stamps, to that; and if you like collecting and playing videogames, to that; etc., etc., etc.
The universe doesn’t have values, so from the perspective of the universe, so there’s no basis for comparing these choices to each other and deciding which one is “better.” They just are what they are.
But people do have values, and from the perspective of a person (say, for example, me), some of those choices are better than others, according to my values. So I might, for example, value raising a family and becoming an important part of the community; I might also be horrified at the aryan superman guy and try to stop him; I might mercilessly make fun of Mr. videogame guy and tell him I think his hobby is stupid; etc., etc., etc.
Why is this concept so hard to grasp?
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cathoichelp
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I can answer this better in a few hours 
kids running around!
I have found different religions work for different people - they achieve the same result - they see miracles - they have peace - they have standards to live up to even if those standards are a struggle - they find moral order - and they feel safe…
I believe that this is true because a lot of that power be it god or budha or mediation - that power you reach … exists in us all. I believe its the power of the human spirit
For me - I don’t need to channel it outside of myself or name it. But I have used theology and philosophy as a tool to help strength my understanding. But I don’t always see anyone one practice as 100 percent correct.
kids running around!
I have found different religions work for different people - they achieve the same result - they see miracles - they have peace - they have standards to live up to even if those standards are a struggle - they find moral order - and they feel safe…
I believe that this is true because a lot of that power be it god or budha or mediation - that power you reach … exists in us all. I believe its the power of the human spirit
For me - I don’t need to channel it outside of myself or name it. But I have used theology and philosophy as a tool to help strength my understanding. But I don’t always see anyone one practice as 100 percent correct.
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AntiTheist
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When my car is broken down to the point that it is beyond repair, yes, it is time to get a new one. Unless, of course, I have such a sentimental attachment to the car that I decide to keep it anyway and keep it running for as long as I can.
The analogy – and yes, Mr. Reading Comprehension, it was an analogy to our human life – also holds: when the body is broken down beyond hope of repair, we can either choose to end our life or – if we have a sentimental attachment to our life – to preserve it for as long as possible.
Just a note: there’s nothing about being “precious” that entails “being able to be remembered forever and ever.” My childhood experiences were precious, even though I’ve forgotten a lot of details.
We have been through this before, but I’ll go through it again. I don’t think that there are any ultimate “shoulds” or “should nots,” so your question is nonsensical.
From the perspective of the universe – which has no values – this pedophile’s goals just are what they are. There’s no basis to compare it to any other goals or say that it’s any “better” or “worse” than any others.
From the perspective of individuals – who do have values – they might almost universally find these goals hideous and terrible. Hence, they create laws to strongly discourage this sort of behavior.
Someone with a drive toward pedophilia might very well want to capture, rape, tortrue, and kill little girls, but he might also want to take into account the obstacles that stand in the way of that goal: namely, the laws against it and the fact that he’ll be harshly punished if he’s caught at it.
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warpspeedpetey
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It seems you are saying that you essentially made up or borrowed your morality from sources that made sense to you. Is that right?
Since you mention it, can ask the nature of the event, or at least how it shook your faith?
That makes perfect sense. I did the same thing, I bounced all over the place. If I weren’t a Theist, I could get into philosophical Taoism. The whole wei wu wei thing is very much my bag baby! Though my voyage brought me home to Rome, I can understand the journey. It took me almost 20 years. Even worse, Christianity is really, really hard. Though its satisfying in a much more visceral way at 38, then it was at 14. I sleep good at night.
As for Buddhism - there are right and wrongs I suppose in most organized religions - I don;t actually follow an organized religion I do believe in the principals of Buddhism which more gives you an approach for handling the world - then a this is THAT and that is THIS - if that makes sense -
I don’t know much about Buddhism, there is one here, Rossum.
The thing about the truth is that it is the truth for everyone, it always surprises me where one finds it.
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honestquestions
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Have you ever been to a movie theater before to see a new film? Why did you go? In your eyes, that movie doesn’t mean anything in the full scheme of things. Perhaps you went because you realized that during those two hours of your life, you chose to devote it to something you personally would most likely enjoy and get pleasure out of. In the end it may not seem to matter, but what you did right then at that time, is choose to consciously (hope) to enjoy the movie. If the supposed new future contains time, why de-value the time you know that you have this instant?
There’s really not too much more to say (it’s redundant) and Antitheist also answered these questions very well. If we go away when we die, it may not matter then to us then (hence we’re dead), but it did matter during the time we were here, and what we did may matter to the rest of civilization because we were not selfish, just as many before us were not selfish. Did some of the greatest contributors to society care that eventually their life would end? They greatly helped us with what we were able to do, just as what we do will hopefully help the future. It’s the circle of life, and I enjoy what I have which is my subjective view. If others don’t, I guess it’s there choice, and they reap their own benefits/consequences.
You are assuming there is an infinite big scheme. I’m assuming mine is (hopefully) a full 90 years or so. I’ll take the days I have and contribute to happiness in order to receive the same, as others have contributed before and presently. If you have an infinite big scheme of days, why do you really care what you accomplish tomorrow, if you supposedly have an infinite time to eventually accomplish it anyway?
I enjoy the deep discussions as well. My advice is to live with what you know you have. But in order to enjoy all that can be achieved, it can only be possible to allow others to do the same as well, as they have done for you. The majority of those who didn’t no longer have the ability to do so themselves.
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cathoichelp
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a good example of this from this forum is someone asking me about evil -
so from a Christian stand point there is good and evil and once you know something is evil its a matter of getting rid of it - fighting it - even hating it - hate the sin … ect -
from an eastern stand point - not only Buddhist but Also Taoist and Hindu -
There is a greater sense of compassion and an understanding that evil is not a thing (or a sin) - evil is something that comes from something else its more of a concept - So when you act out at anything in hatred you create evil -
So many horrible things and sufferings have happened as a result of trying to get rid of something once it was deemed “evil”
Evil is what we create when we are not compassionate - when we don’t face adversity w a sense of good and understanding- Evil is looked at in terms of greed - ignorance - and hatred -
its not a thing - it comes from actions rooted in hate ignorance and greed -
Another words I look at the world in those terms. I look closely at my own actions and how they effect results and more importantly how they effect people.
As far as teachings go i greatly enjoy Makiguchi - which is why I enjoy this sect of Buddhism-
His focus on tolerance and what results from injustice and anger I hold very true.
But I don’t look to religion to tell me what is right and what is wrong -
I do apply certain theology to my interactions with people and the world in general in negotiating things for myself - I can figure out if something is right or wrong… However in the process of doing this or fighting something that is unjust I use these teachings to keep positive and productive -
I try to refrain from anger - and hatred - and intolerance
I try to understand things from more than one perspective.
All and all - I have found that even if I part ways with someone still not in agreement- we have gained mutual respect - and down the road we tend to be open to learning from each other or at least gaining a deeper understanding from one another.
in the SGI - nitrchen buddhism - Nikken stands for injustice in the world - you face injustice through your own human revolution - become happy yourself - you over come evil through your own practice of doing good-
Its a more outward philosophy - in that you must face and fight injustice (or the root of evil) -
anyway I digress -
I don’t follow every aspect of this and I don’t chant or believe in the mystic law-
However the principals of HOW to approach something I find very helpful.
if that makes sense -
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Pieman333272
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Just curious Catholichelp, have you read the works of Thomas Merton? Although his focus was on moral issues and social justice rather than concepts of God, you may like his ideas on the union of eastern religion and Roman Catholicism. Just a totally-off-topic recommendation.
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cathoichelp
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It seems you are saying that you essentially made up or borrowed your morality from sources that made sense to you. Is that right?
not exactly.it would be more correct that I found it useless to accept what someone had given me as right or wrong and just run with it my whole life-
So I used different philosophies as a basis for how to behave - tolerance - patience - compassion - understanding -
but right and wrong on religious issues -
birth control
abortion
gay marriage
marriage in general
ect -
I allowed my own life experience to shape my views …
Since you mention it, can ask the nature of the event, or at least how it shook your faith?
this will take me longer to answer and I really need to think about what i am comfortable posting -
but i will come back to it after my kids are in bed
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cathoichelp
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I have not actually but I will look into on my kindle tonightJust curious Catholichelp, have you read the works of Thomas Merton? Although his focus was on moral issues and social justice rather than concepts of God, you may like his ideas on the union of eastern religion and Roman Catholicism. Just a totally-off-topic recommendation.
thanks
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warpspeedpetey
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Don’t worry about it. Sokay.… after my kids are in bed
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cathoichelp
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thanks I’d rather not deal with it on a public forum - I am more than willing to talk in PM if you are interested.Don’t worry about it. Sokay.
I worry that 1- it might upset of triggering someone else
2- it will turn into a huge bash or debate and its a rather personal issue so while I don’t doubt myself - it can actually upset me to have to defend it and its not worth causing stress to myself over
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warpspeedpetey
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That’s OK.I didn’t mean to pry into any personal stuff.
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