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MindOverMatter2
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Through Him, with Him, in Him, in the unity of the Holy Spirit, all glory and honor is yours Almighty Father, forever and ever. Amen.
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Betterave
Guest
“Existence precedes Essence” means “God is immanent and transcendent”?
In that case maybe I’d better ask: what do you think ‘means’ means?
With due respect, you appear to be indulging in pure obfuscation here.
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Betterave
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I must ask: are you even trying to present an intelligible argument here? Are you actually trying to say something that actually responds to what I said? What you have written here just seems so random.
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Betterave
Guest
Existence and essence are identical in God and thus both are necessary (the two are really one). Existence and essence are distinct in creatures, but neither one is intrinsically necessary. If the existence of a created essence were necessary per se, the created essence would also be necessary per se. (Again, apply modus tollens, therefore etc.)
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trinitybeliever
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read the thread…
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warpspeedpetey
Guest
Just google it then. I am not going to explain my explanation, of my explanation, of my explanation…ad infinitum.“Existence precedes Essence” means “God is immanent and transcendent”?
In that case maybe I’d better ask: what do you think ‘means’ means?
With due respect, you appear to be indulging in pure obfuscation here.
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trinitybeliever
Guest
Not to insult and sorry if you take it wrong,My version of this comment to you would be: “Hold on now; directly to the supercilious dismissal of your interlocutor’s position as based on insufficient familiarity with the dictionary? :tsktsk:”
I didn’t mean to be insulting, sorry if you took it that way. I just wanted to give you some helpful advice for making constructive contributions here. (Nota bene: You obviously don’t know me well enough to be able to assume that my problem with your position is based simply on my lack of familiarity with the dictionary - right??)
And in case anyone noticed or cares, I should have said that there is a book on my desk with the numeral ‘19’ on it, not with the number 19 on it. Mea culpa.
you might want to try being a little less arrogant and a little more informed. That would show you actually cared about the truth, instead of just talking about it.
It’s evident that you should take your own “helpful advise”. So far I have not found your comments constructive or even coherent.
I don’t know you at all. Nor do you me. My “assumptions” only based on your posts. Furthermore, if you don’t care for my contributions to this post simply do not respond. Your perception of me has no bearing on the OP’s question or my response to it.
So instead of trying to instruct me in your opinions on what is and isn’t “constructive contributions here” simply respond to the ideas being conveyed if you possibly can.
This is the very reason I thought better than to respond to you initially.
Let’s get back to the OP’s subject now shall we?
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trinitybeliever
Guest
samiam, How about this instead:
*Quote:
Originally Posted by Candide West
Er, not sure I’m following you. You appear to be saying that if your beliefs changed then we would cease to exist. This seems somewhat unlikely.
*
It is true none the less.
For you to prove that God does not exist you would need to disprove this…
John Chapter 1
1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2
He was in the beginning with God.
3
All things came to be through him, and without him nothing came to be. What came to be
4
through him was life, and this life was the light of the human race;
5
the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.
Any response?
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Betterave
Guest
“Just google it”? Just google what? Search term: “what does WSP mean when he claims that…”? With comments like this you should just be aware: you’re not much of a philosopher. You are in fact indulging in pure obfuscation.
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Betterave
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LOL! What are you talking about, specifically? (Anything?)
Sometimes there’s a problem with the transmitter, sometimes with the receiver.
Yeah, obviously! That was my point! On the basis of my posts your assumptions are clearly not justifiable.
Is that how philosophy works, in your mind? Or Christianity? If you don’t like it, don’t respond? If you see a problem, ignore it?
As for your dismissal of the relevance of my perceptions of you, this again appears to be a groundless and arrogant response on your part.
Instead? That’s a false dichotomy, surely? My advice to you obviously was a response to the ideas you conveyed. Obviously you’re free to churlishly dismiss my advice, but this just confirms my warrant for offering you that advice.
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PRmerger
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I think wsp meant you should google what it means that God is immanent and transcendent, if you don’t understand what he means by that.
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Betterave
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And do you think that would somehow answer my question? (I tried it and it didn’t; did you try it?) I still think that wsp appears not to know what ‘means’ means.
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warpspeedpetey
Guest
I am most certainly not a philosopher. I am a west Kansas redneck sitting in a trailer. I pick a guitar, drive an old truck and really want to smoke a joint with Willy Nelson before I die. I would not look out of place on the set of “My name is Earl”. I make my money the hard way, I ride my motorcycle too fast, and I couldn’t leave a good looking corpse if I got run over by Mary Kay driving an Avon truck. So before you accuse me of obsfucationin’ inadequate philosophication you need to understand that I am not sure what that means…?
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warpspeedpetey
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:yup:
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PRmerger
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I think it would, actually, if you were truly looking to understand.
But, alas, I fear that you are not really open to that right now.
You just want to pick a fight, no?
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Betterave
Guest
OK, but of course none of this personal trivia - interesting though it is
- implies that you are unable to use a dictionary (or google) when you’re not sure what a word means, or that you are somehow congenitally incapable of carrying on a reasonable philosophical discussion, or that you can consider yourself to simply be excused from adhering to the ordinary canons governing such discussions. Aim high (and I’m not referring to the smoking with Willy Nelson thing)!The main point is, don’t present yourself as a knowledgeable defender of a particular brand of Thomism if you are not prepared to actually defend your views on the subject (as opposed to citing some slogans you’ve heard and then responding to requests for clarification of those slogans with “google it if you don’t understand”).
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Betterave
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Just want to pick a fight?? Absolutely not, and please don’t be so silly. A request for clarification of a seemingly incoherent statement is a standard move in a philosophical discussion. It is precisely what someone who is truly looking to understand ought to do - as opposed to introducing silly and groundless ad hominem remarks, as you have done here.
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samiam1611
Guest
I’m not sure what you are asking. If you could clarify what you want me to respond to, I will. Though I have little to say regarding bible quotes bc I really don’t care what the bible says. (If anything, I might pay some mind to the Torah, but not really. They’re both just some words that somebody wrote down thousands of years ago and for some strange reason, people still believe it. At least the Torah is in the original language) and we have reconstructions of the original.) If you had a different question in mind, I’ll be happy to respond.samiam, How about this instead:
Quote:
*Originally Posted by Candide West *
Er, not sure I’m following you. You appear to be saying that if your beliefs changed then we would cease to exist. This seems somewhat unlikely.
It is true none the less.
For you to prove that God does not exist you would need to disprove this…
John Chapter 1
1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2
He was in the beginning with God.
3
All things came to be through him, and without him nothing came to be. What came to be
4
through him was life, and this life was the light of the human race;
5
the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.
Any response?
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trinitybeliever
Guest
:yawn:
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trinitybeliever
Guest
As I expected.
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