what would you do?

[Crosscut]

Things are worse than I thought. My daughter professes to be a total atheist. She won’t listen to me try to convince her otherwise. Says she doesn’t want to believe. Says she hates God (yes I see the irony).

She doesn’t want to go to Mass anymore. Doesn’t want to pray the Rosary.

Not sure she wants me to be her dad anymore.

My world has been rocked.

What do I do?

Keep in mind, she is 13.

I agree with the other people when they say* stop trying to change her*. Something must have happened that caused this change. Not sure if she want through a painful experience, or saw something that didnt make sense to her that left a big impression.

Either way, its pretty typical that if a parent tries to squeeze tighter onto a child that rebels means that the child will tug harder to get away. You need to open up warm arms and let her know that she is loved regardless. Let her walk the path she chooses for now but just pray for her in silence.

 

[captainmike]

which of these do I force her to do (she doesn’t want to do any of them)?

A. Attend Catholic school (she wants to go to public school)

B. Pray the Rosary with our family

C. Attend Mass on Sunday

 

[styrgwillidar]

which of these do I force her to do (she doesn’t want to do any of them)?

A. Attend Catholic school (she wants to go to public school)

• Depends on the reason. Is there a particular program/club/sport that is available at the public school that isn’t at the Catholic school? If she can make a logical reasoned case for it, I would consider it.

B. Pray the Rosary with our family

C. Attend Mass on Sunday

Does she want to be a part of the family and included in all the fun activities? Then she needs to participate in all the family activities. Does she want you to respect her choices and opinions? Then she’ll need to respect your choices and opinions.Does she expect you to keep your word to her? Does she expect to be able to trust you?

When you had her baptized, you made a promise to God to raise her as Catholic. That includes a prayer life and attending mass, becoming educated in the faith. If you will not keep your word to God, why would she ever trust you? You’re the adult, this is something you’ve vowed to do and it will happen. When she is an adult and responsible for herself, than she can choose to attend or not attend. Pray or not pray. Include herself in family activities or divorce herself from them.

 

[Pax2u]

It seems to me this is happening because she has a crush on the neighbor boy, wants to impress him by being “like” him with his beliefs. And that would explain why she wants to go to public school…his school, right?

Hard as it is, try not to get emotional with her. Don’t feed into any drama. If it were me, I’d make sure my spouse and I were on the same page. Then we would calmly tell her that until she was 18 she must live according to the decisions of Mom and Dad, which means you parents choose her school, expect her to participate in family prayers and attend Mass. Explain to her that she has siblings she must set an example for. Whether or not she “believes” isn’t in your power to affect…but she must respect your expectations, and participate as part of the family. If she hasn’t been Confirmed yet…I would agree with those who said require her attendance at the classes, but do not force her to go through with Confirmation if she says no.

If it were me, I’d also visit the neighbors and explain to them what’s going on and your concerns, and so you know they will understand that you prefer their son’s visits to be at your home. Don’t forbid her to see him…just make sure you are around when he is.

Tough situation…I’ll say a prayer for your family. Remember…you and your wife are a team. Give each other a lot of support!

 

[graciew]

Captainmike , the only thing I would like to point out ,respectfully , is that this happened only 48 hours ago.
Take a breath and stop the escalade.
Shift focus for a while , go for a walk , jog , do something you enjoy doing and let some air in to refresh the space between you both
God bless you and your daughter.

 

[BlueEyedLady]

which of these do I force her to do (she doesn’t want to do any of them)?

A. Attend Catholic school (she wants to go to public school)

That depends. If she’s currently in public school and you pull her out to send her to Catholic school over this, you will blow up the situation. It gives a 13 year old too much power if they get to say “I believe _____” and it prompts their parent to pull them out of school. Now, if she’s already attending Catholic school, there is definitely no way that you should let this interfere with that (unless the education or extracurricular activities are better at the public school). You’re the parent, you get to say “I’m sorry honey. Your mother and I researched the schools in the area and we feel that this one is best for you. You are only 13, and it is our responsibility to ensure that you get the best education that you can. This is not open for discussion. But if it makes you feel any better, a lot of non Catholics, atheists included, send their children to Catholic school. You’ll live.”

B. Pray the Rosary with our family

Eh…I am really hesitant to force people to pray. That crosses a line, IMO, even when it’s a child. You don’t want to send the message that the homeowner decides who prays and to what god. If she goes back to Catholicism as an adult, but rents a room in a house from someone of another faith, you don’t want her to feel that she has to join in with prayer to be polite. Now what you can say is that she doesn’t have to pray, but she will be respectful. That means that she doesn’t get to walk around the house, watch TV, play music, or make noise. She can sit and enjoy a book or do homework while the rest of the family has their time. And as an atheist adult, not interrupting the prayer time of others is a skill she’ll need anyway. My husband and are really good at sitting quietly for short prayers, or excusing ourselves to go outside and chit chat during longer ones (like the rosary).

C. Attend Mass on Sunday

People get so hung up on this one. They’ll tell you that if you force her to go to mass, she’ll always hate the church. Likewise, they’ll tell you that if you don’t, she’ll never go back. I really don’t think it matters in the long run but I think that you are well within your rights as a parent to make her go. Don’t make her take communion or participate in any of the sacraments, but she has to go.

My advice on this one though is DO NOT tell her she has to go because she’s living under your roof and you’re in charge. Again, this is not the message you want to send to your child. You want to raise your child to be able to advocate for their own space to practice their own beliefs. What you should tell her is that she has to go because YOU made a promise to raise her Catholic and that’s a promise that you intend to keep. No one else can make her go to church because no one else is her parent and made that promise. But you did, so if you say it’s mass time, it’s mass time.

 

[Xantippe]

Here’s a suggestion: Whatever you budge on, make a show of it being a big deal and make sure that your daughter understands that you expect a quid pro quo. For instance, if you budge on public school, she’s going to have to do her homework and chores without reminders, keep up her grades, set a good example to her siblings, and go to Mass and religious education without negative comment.

We pulled this one on our 12-year-old. She started guitar this summer, liked it, but was giving me huge drama about practicing. We explained to her that daddy didn’t really want her to be taking music and hated hearing the arguments about practicing, and that if she wanted to have lessons, she needed to practice, because her $100 a month lesson expenses represented a nice date night for mommy and daddy, and we’d be thrilled to get a sitter, go to dinner and go to a movie BY OURSELVES instead of suffering through the practice drama. There hasn’t been any practice drama since. (I had been dealing with 20 minutes of wailing in order to get 10 minutes of practice out of her.)

So, make sure whatever you yield on that your daughter understands that there is a price, and if she does not hold up her end of the bargain, you will not hold up yours.

It is a very dramatic age, but they are also pretty smart.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

Things are worse than I thought. My daughter professes to be a total atheist. She won’t listen to me try to convince her otherwise. Says she doesn’t want to believe. Says she hates God (yes I see the irony).

She doesn’t want to go to Mass anymore. Doesn’t want to pray the Rosary.

Not sure she wants me to be her dad anymore.

My world has been rocked.

What do I do?

Keep in mind, she is 13.

The alarming part to me is the age. That you feel ill equipped to handle apology of the faith to a 13 year old is sad. And it is sad on all fronts. The school, the Church, the youth programs. and yes, the parents. This is a failure on all fronts. The good news is that SHE IS 13!! Plenty of time to work through this. And she is watching you, seeing how you handle this and if she has pushed one of your buttons and thereby gained some power.

A 13 year old does not get to decide if she goes to Mass or prays with the family. You do. And that is your responsibility as a parent. It is not only binding on her, but you as well. When she is 18 (5 short years away) she gets to make the rules. But right now, Mass is as much an obligation as requiring her to bathe or go to school.

Now, that being said. The worst thing you could do is overreact and freak out because she is rebelling. I am telling you this, it has nothing to do with her actual beliefs and everything to do with something else. And I don’t think it is “the boy” as much as everyone else does. A girl does not intentionally inflict pain on her family just because she is 13 and likes a boy.

What you need to do is ask her to talk about atheism. Explain it. And then question it logically. Ask her about a First Cause, or an Unmoved Mover. Get technical. Most of the greatest theologians, scientists, and philosophers were not atheists. If she were 18, 25 or 32, I would think that might not be enough, but she is 13. Her knowledge of world history or science or logic is a middle school level. You can do this. And you need to educate her better in her own faith. This is very important. And it needs to be done at home because if you are depending on the school, or the religious ed leader to do it you will just get more of the same.

What should be happening is Catholics should be converting their atheist neighbors. And atheist parents should be complaining about the 13 year old next door who is showing Christ to their boy.

Unsupervised time with a boy at 13? Man to man, how can you allow this? Your daughter needs protection, and you need to provide it.

I am sorry if that seems harsh but you really need some “single session therapy”

What was it that Archbishop sheen said? “If you want your child to lose their faith, send them to Catholic schools.” If you want them to defend the faith send them to public schools… Perhaps you should consider that. Personally I chose neither for my children, but since the Catholic school is not strengthening her faith perhaps you can use it as a bargaining tool. “You can go to public school, but you will joyfully join our family for Mass and prayers.”

 

[Xantippe]

Another idea:

“You can have Atheist Friend over here for visits at our house, but…” and then fill in the blank with qualifications (she needs to be civil to parents and siblings, be a good hostess to her company, clean up after herself and her guest, have him out by dinner time or by 9 PM, clear visits in advance with parents, etc.).

Treat the stuff you would have yielded on anyway as major concessions that she needs to purchase with continued good behavior.

You can’t control her beliefs, but it shouldn’t be that difficult to get a handle on her general conduct at this age.

 

[styrgwillidar]

…

The worst thing you could do is overreact and freak out because she is rebelling. I am telling you this, it has nothing to do with her actual beliefs and everything to do with something else.

…

I tend to agree with this. Kids rebel, and to do so they pick something that’s contentious with their parents to fight over control. I had four sisters, and every one of them felt much more compelled to argue with my parents than I ever did. Many times over things I felt were very minor and wouldn’t have been worth the aggravation or effort to me.

If it makes you feel any better, the religious education director and a bunch of the catechists were actually talking about this the other day. Stories about how their kids as teens rebelled against attending church etc, but eventually made their way back as young adults.

I actually had a female friend who chose to rebel over her curfew time. Even if she got home before curfew, she’d wait in her car in the driveway or parked around the corner until at least 30 minutes past curfew. ??? Never made sense to me, she’d get in a heated argument with her parents, get grounded every time and lose driving privileges. Just to make what point? She’d do it again right after the punishment expired- and of course the next grounding would be longer…

Mine leave their rooms messy, and we argue about that a bit. Then as I said, I just close their doors. They show me that I can’t control how they keep their personal spaces- they don’t utilize drugs, alcohol and promiscuity as forms of rebellion.

 

[CatholicGuy31]

What about getting her involved with a Church run charity group if this is available in your area? Sometimes faith in action gets through to teenagers better than other methods. It also means she will be spending more time with the Church community.

 

[Indigo_Cardinal]

captainmike:

which of these do I force her to do (she doesn’t want to do any of them)?

A. Attend Catholic school (she wants to go to public school)

B. Pray the Rosary with our family

C. Attend Mass on Sunday

I largely agree with Blue-Eyed Lady’s answer’s above (I’m unable to quote her post, for some reason).

I would also have another question–is she currently in Catholic school? Could there be something going on there that would make her have doubts/questions? I remember being a 13 year old girl, and that was about the time the ‘Mean Girls’ syndrome would really start rearing its head in full force. If she’s getting picked on/bullied by girls at a school that has an emphasis on Christian values, it could start making her question religion in general. Might be worth looking in to.

As for her ‘hating you’…I’m going to be honest, apologies are needed on both sides. I can understand your hurt over saying what she did, on the other hand, you equally overreacted with the ‘grounding her for life’ bit. You two need to sit down, and you need to be honest with her and tell her that you did overreact, and apologize to her for it. When you did that, you essentially told her that what she thinks and feels doesn’t matter, and I’d bet that’s where her “I hate you!” came from. I suspect an apology will go a long way in diminishing the ‘hatred’ she has right now. If nothing else, it gives you back your moral high ground in this.

Regards,
Indigo

 

[acadiANNA]

Praying for your daughter, that the Holy Spirit will enter her heart, and she will be obedient to the instruction of her parents. Eventually she will turn around and realize that this was a time of spiritual weakness for her and worship our Lord even more faithfully than before. She is very young.

 

[acadiANNA]

My mom used to tell us, “You can go over there but I have to go with you.” Then she would send my sister with me who reported everything going on at that house. With their disapproval, I didn’t go there again. Worked for us but maybe not in other cases.

 

[gh4]

I wouldn’t be changing her school at this point. If her behavior gets worse, it can be one of those things you consider.

She would attend family prayer. I would not make her participate if she refuses, but I would make her sit there and listen. I would not let her do homework or read. She needs to hear her family pray.

She would go to mass with the family. That’s what families do. Allow her to invite her friend to go with.

I would not allow her to spend a lot of time across the street. Have her invite her friend to your home. Make sure she understands that he can’t be in the house if there is no parent home, and I would not allow them to do homework or study in her room. Study at the kitchen table.

I would allow her to go occasionally across the street, but maybe send someone with her so that she’s not alone with this boy. You don’t know if that family will let them be in a room together with the door closed etc. and so forth.

Best of luck!

 

[LaLaLa49]

I didn’t bother to read the other replies. I’ll just tell you this:
I am also 13, soon 14. Out of my own desire for knowledge I have been studying many points of view, contemplating every single one, struggling with reality, as we all know how it is. While being a young girl I would pray, but out of fear. Fear that I might do wrong or just simple blind fear that knew no boundaries once I forgot to pray before school . I always expected much of myself , such as always getting 10. From the 3rd grade I started to distance myself from such activities, because I never really believed God would help me if I did that. I just had to remind myself of my “duty” as I perceived it back then , but now I let it all go. Even so, I am pretty sure I would have gone mad if I kept going like that. Obsession, yes. I realised that God never really helped me and only my parents and my other cold part that , gradually, killed my fearful self, did. At my age, even more. I see no logic in christianity, nor do I agree with the 10 commandements (I won’t go in deeper because that’s not the premise of the question). My parents aren’t religious and over the time my mom has also given up on praying. Let’s just say that the “demon” of reality struck them both and now we can agree on many points. Even so, I became skeptic over the existence of a god . They still hold on to that. Now, think about it. Your daughter may just agree with her friend’s point of view and sees logic in it. She may come back to her original state because of your intervention, of course, but that’s not always the case. Why are you so shocked? Are you afraid that little Lucy may have gotten control over your daughter? Please. Don’t do that. Your daughter isn’t 18, true, but not everyone is silly and totally dependable on their parents’ actions/points of view. I haven’t taken ANYTHING from my mother, neither from my father(unless we’re talking about morality, on which I simply agreed). I have seen many mistakes in their judgement. Please, do not belittle younger people. Let her choose whatever she thinks it’s better for her and try to also understand HER point of view( before you even try,I’m not talking about idiots destroying their life with drugs or retarded things like that). If she is your daughter that doesn’t mean she has to agree 100% with you. And no, parents don’t always know better than their children. At least until a specific age. But then again, we can’t get over the fact that some children can outsmart their parents, right? This makes me chuckle. Long story short, your daughter most probably chose being an atheist because she saw more sense in what her friend has been saying. You don’t even try to understand it. Please show that it isn’t just religious indoctrination in you that makes you say that. I know I am on a catholics’ forum, but I can’t shut up on this. As long as she isn’t a hate-filled murderer and just has a different opinion than you have, then you have to shut up in this case. She won’t hurt anyone by being an atheist, she’s just discovering more possibilities. Unless it’s your ego in the game. Haha! Is it, dear sir? Let’s not lose respect over such trivial matters. Be reasonable and, if you wish, talk to her about this. An adult to adult discussion. And don’t bring in religion, such things as “Jesus died for your sins” blah blah. Make it a nice philosophical discussion.

 

[captainmike]

My daughter is emphatic. She does not believe.

I do not feel inclined to make her attend Mass. I also do not believe she should receive the Eucharist.

Advice?

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

My daughter is emphatic. She does not believe.

I do not feel inclined to make her attend Mass. I also do not believe she should receive the Eucharist.

Advice?

You still have not given her reasoning. Her answer to who created us or who Jesus is. Have you talked with her and listened to her philosophy on this?

Since you offered no new info my advice is the same.

The alarming part to me is the age. That you feel ill equipped to handle apology of the faith to a 13 year old is sad. And it is sad on all fronts. The school, the Church, the youth programs. and yes, the parents. This is a failure on all fronts. The good news is that SHE IS 13!! Plenty of time to work through this. And she is watching you, seeing how you handle this and if she has pushed one of your buttons and thereby gained some power.

A 13 year old does not get to decide if she goes to Mass or prays with the family. You do. And that is your responsibility as a parent. It is not only binding on her, but you as well. When she is 18 (5 short years away) she gets to make the rules. But right now, Mass is as much an obligation as requiring her to bathe or go to school.

Now, that being said. The worst thing you could do is overreact and freak out because she is rebelling. I am telling you this, it has nothing to do with her actual beliefs and everything to do with something else. And I don’t think it is “the boy” as much as everyone else does. A girl does not intentionally inflict pain on her family just because she is 13 and likes a boy.

What you need to do is ask her to talk about atheism. Explain it. And then question it logically. Ask her about a First Cause, or an Unmoved Mover. Get technical. Most of the greatest theologians, scientists, and philosophers were not atheists. If she were 18, 25 or 32, I would think that might not be enough, but she is 13. Her knowledge of world history or science or logic is a middle school level. You can do this. And you need to educate her better in her own faith. This is very important. And it needs to be done at home because if you are depending on the school, or the religious ed leader to do it you will just get more of the same.

What should be happening is Catholics should be converting their atheist neighbors. And atheist parents should be complaining about the 13 year old next door who is showing Christ to their boy.

Unsupervised time with a boy at 13? Man to man, how can you allow this? Your daughter needs protection, and you need to provide it.

I am sorry if that seems harsh but you really need some “single session therapy”

What was it that Archbishop sheen said? “If you want your child to lose their faith, send them to Catholic schools.” If you want them to defend the faith send them to public schools… Perhaps you should consider that. Personally I chose neither for my children, but since the Catholic school is not strengthening her faith perhaps you can use it as a bargaining tool. “You can go to public school, but you will joyfully join our family for Mass and prayers.”

 

[Lookingforjoy]

My daughter is emphatic. She does not believe.

I do not feel inclined to make her attend Mass. I also do not believe she should receive the Eucharist.

Advice?

My parents went through this with my sister. Their solution was that she has to come to Mass because that’s what our family does, and she’s still in our family even if she considers herself not to be Catholic anymore. It made sense.

 

[runwaymodel]

I hope I can offer some advice based on my somewhat similar experience. When I was a teenage girl I also drifted from my faith. Never to the point of saying a hated God or turned ‘atheist’ but I told my parents I didn’t want to keep attending Mass because it was boring to me at that point in my life. I was around 13 or 14 so I never finished Confirmation either. My parents never pushed the issue but they would always remind me that if I had any problems to talk to and pray to. God because he would always listen (I was a teenager so my life was constant drama and melancholy–teenagers tend to me over dramatic) and I would roll my eyes because I was “so cool” BUT interestingly enough I never forget the words my parents said. And I would pray in situations where I felt super stressed or overwhelmed but I kept it to myself. My parents never knew this until I told them years later.
My point is, like many others suggested already, don’t push anything on her. The harder you push, the harder she will push back. Just offer love and advice but still occasionally say a prayer with her or over dinner. She may roll her eyes or huff but little things like that stick. Do try to attend Mass during Christmas and Easter together, if possible. For some reason teens are happy during the Christmas season so take advantage of it and go to Mass, watch Christmas movies together (with that Christian message in it) and listen to religious Christmas songs. Just keep praying and doing things around the house the involve Christ that you would normally do, even if it doesn’t involve her. Even teens are still like sponges and pick up on those things.

And guess what? Years later, maybe when I was 20 or 21 (some people take longer) I came back to the Catholic Church on my own! Praise Jesus! And I never attended catholic school or anything like that so I personally think your daughter already has a better foundation than I did so keep her in that school.

Also, don’t allow her to go over to that boys house. Have him come over instead that way you can supervise causally and it just feels safer, IMO.
Sending prayers! Stay strong.