What you believe, what we believe...great

[Paris_Blues]

Okay so my parents came over yesterday to help me put up my own Christmas tree.

Later we were sitting down and drinking hot tea and eating cookies and talking. Earlier I had asked how their church service went (to be respectful) and they said it went well (they are Presbyterian). I used to go to their church before becoming a Catholic but that was over a year ago. They have their Communion every first Saturday/Sunday of the month. My dad told me about how they had their Communion and all that and he explained to me how the pastor breaks the bread (I remember seeing the dude do this too when attending awhile back) and says something like, “It will become the body of Christ in our faith” and same with the Blood, etc.

I try to respect their beliefs and they respect mine (the Eucharist) BUT, I just can’t accept the fact that other Christian religions do their Communion so different from the CC!!! Why? I can’t explain it. I know I sound self-righteous and prideful - which I TRY VERY HARD not fall into - but don’t tell me that OUR Communion is oh, just “another belief”! Let me explain: Protestants have their Communion and their beliefs which is fine but it gets to me enough that it makes ME think, “oh, so does that mean the Eucharist is just another belief that we Catholics believe?”

Do I make sense?

My dad brought that up because he remembered what I told him about the Eucharist and I told him that Christ is substantially present and he said, “I know”.

I was going to tell him that Christ instituted the Eucharist and not symbolic but I told myself not to.

See what I mean? You can’t talk to other Christians about your beliefs otherwise you end up thinking, oh maybe ours is just another belief too.

 

[aurora77]

Communion is a difficult issue to discuss with non-Catholics. They generally don’t understand what we believe and we don’t understand them. To us Catholics it’s so abundantly clear that Christ really meant us to do this in memory of Him. We had a discussion about this at work; my protestant co-worker was asking me about how we venerate the Eucharistic, he’s been taught it’s like idol worhip. I just asked him if Christ was standing there in front of him, what would he do. I think he understood better where we are coming from. It’s important for us to share our faith without being offensive or condescending, though. The best way to do that is to pray that God will guide us in what to say.

That being said, non-Catholics may find this offensive, but ours isn’t just another belief. The Catholic Church is the Church founded by Christ; we have the fullness of truth. Of course, I would never, ever say it that way to a non-Catholic; there are much more diplomatic ways of getting our message across.

 

[markinohio]

I think a great question to ask would be, what do they do with the body and blood of Chirst after communion?

 

[bogeyjlg]

Even if they believed it was the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Jesus, they do not have a valid priesthood and therefore no Jesus.

 

[SolaChristo]

bogeyjlg:

Even if they believed it was the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Jesus, they do not have a valid priesthood and therefore no Jesus.

The Apostles Peter and John say differently.

 

[SolaChristo]

aurora77:

That being said, non-Catholics may find this offensive, but ours isn’t just another belief. The Catholic Church is the Church founded by Christ; we have the fullness of truth. Of course, I would never, ever say it that way to a non-Catholic; there are much more diplomatic ways of getting our message across.

It is what you believe, not only you but many other Catholics like you. You dont have to say it in those words it still comes across. And yes when I here Catholics say this Im incredulous, I think what planet are they from.

 

[Trcmm]

Parisblues, there is a website that explains and documents the Eucharistic miracles that have taken place in the church, there are several of them. I think its eucharistic miracles.org.

We believe that it is truly Jesus in communion, which can only be so from a (truly ordained) priest who inwardly truly believes in the real presence.

They eat cookies and grape juice for their communion, they just beleieve its a communual feast in honor of christ, they don’t believe its a real sacrafice that was created by God for our sanctifying grace, without this grace of communion we have no strength to be saved.

Jesus said, he who does not eat me has (no) life in them.

Try and read about the eucharistic miracles, and give it to them if you have info about it. there is a book on tan website, called Euchristic miracles which is like 400 pages long. You should get that if you dont have it and share it with others.

peace,

 

[Elzee]

SolaChristo:

The Apostles Peter and John say differently.

I’ll bite… what do you mean? I’ve never heard this before?

 

[Donna_P]

Paris Blues:

BUT, I just can’t accept the fact that other Christian religions do their Communion so different from the CC!!! Why?
Do I make sense?

.

It is becuase of your love for Christ and His one true Church. I am a revert and have the same problem…so I pray. And read. And learn. Then if questions are asked, I have the Church teachings and understanding of our Doctrines.

Also, if questions are asked…share a book that you’ve read on our faith or a tract or article. Something for them to take with them.

God Bless you and your faith!

 

[Everstruggling]

Paris Blues:

don’t tell me that OUR Communion is oh, just “another belief”! Let me explain: Protestants have their Communion and their beliefs which is fine but it gets to me enough that it makes ME think, “oh, so does that mean the Eucharist is just another belief that we Catholics believe?”

See what I mean? You can’t talk to other Christians about your beliefs otherwise you end up thinking, oh maybe ours is just another belief too.

I want to see if I’ve got this right.

Your parents belief is- just a belief.
Your belief is- the truth.

And you are looking for people to tell you this is right?

Well, the good news is, you are posting on a Catholic website, and you will get tonnes of people tell you that you are right.
The bad news is: they are biased.
I am biased too. Everyone is, or they don’t care. If you care at all, you can’t be objective. You pick and choose what you want to see and what you want to hear. Oh, not totally of course. People have various degrees of objectivity, but eveyone selects at least a little.

Here’s the thing. Even if you are 100% right. It is still “only just a belief.”

Put it this way. You can not prove to me that you exist. Even if you were in the same room, you could be a figment of my imagination. (I met a guy once that was convinced I was a robot, I couldn’t shake his faith in that at all.) But you aren’t here. For all I know, my computer could be randomly generating everyone’s responses on this board.

I’m betting that you do exist. (That’s why I’m writing this. If I didn’t believe it I wouldn’t bother.) Whether or not you exist, I’m still just acting on faith. I have no way of knowing for sure.

So after all of that, here is the short answer to your question.

Your belief in the eucharist is “just a belief” whether it is the truth or not. No matter what anyone tells you, you have to decide if it is real.

 

[hurst]

Everstruggling:

Your belief in the eucharist is “just a belief” whether it is the truth or not. No matter what anyone tells you, you have to decide if it is real.

To believe something is real and to decide something is real are two different things. We can decide to believe, but we can’t make something real by deciding it is. We can decide to believe it is real, and then decide to live and act as though it were real, ready to receive it as real. But we cannot make it “real” by our own power.

That is what faith is like. Leaving ourselves open to let reality in, because we know it not, for we do not control it. But we are as certain of it as we are of our ability to believe. It is simply believing in that which gave us the ability to believe. It just makes sense. And it is Just.

hurst

 

[Della]

Your belief in the eucharist is “just a belief” whether it is the truth or not. No matter what anyone tells you, you have to decide if it is real.

Thanks for answering this point, ES. You saved me the trouble. :tiphat:

Truth is truth whether you or I or anyone believes it or not.

If a meteor the size of Manhattan is hurtling towards earth, the truth is we are going to have a very bad day indeed. Merely saying that it is a belief won’t change the fact that when it hits we are all goners.

So, don’t think that if others don’t agree with you that what you believe must only be YOUR belief. As ES also pointed out, we Catholics are going to say the Eucharist is what the Church says it is, but not just because of our bias (sorry ES) but because it is the truth Christ gave to his Apostles and they to us.

 

[Everstruggling]

Della:

Thanks for answering this point, ES. You saved me the trouble. :tiphat:

No problem Della! I know you’ve been posting a lot. I’m just trying to help out.

As ES also pointed out, we Catholics are going to say the Eucharist is what the Church says it is, but not just because of our bias (sorry ES) but because it is the truth Christ gave to his Apostles and they to us.

Hey, don’t put words in my mouth! :tsktsk: I never said that you believe just because you are biased. I said you are biased because you care. You are emotionally invested in the outcome, and therefore will put more emphasis on the facts that you think make your point (for example, apostolic succession). Just as person who doesn’t believe will put more emphasis on points that go his/her way (for example, no one has put a random sample of hosts under a microscope).

Cool that we agree though.

 

[Magicsilence]

Everstruggling:

Your parents belief is- just a belief.
Your belief is- the truth.

And you are looking for people to tell you this is right?

Oh boy yup shes right.

Unfortunately, the misperception that all is relative has pulled Truth out of the game.

If you see a man who is half black and half white straight down the middle.

You observe him from one side. And I from the other.

We both have our own perception of what colour the man is. But he is not either of what we believe him to be.

If we take that man and analyze every inch of his skin, we can be more certain of his colour than ever before, but cannot guarantee Truth.

However, there IS a Truth to the matter.

And if there was an infinite being deciding the matter who was perfect in every way then they would be able to pronounce the perfect Truth. The absolute Truth about the matter.

Now lets take that story about the man and apply it to something else.

The Eucharist.

Her parents dont believe in the Eucharist. She does.

Evidently there is only one truth in the matter. Either Christ is present in the Eucharist or he is not.

And if he IS, then a miracle has taken place.

And if a miracle has taken place, then Catholic priests are the ones within Gods Church.

Ipso facto, Catholics were right all along.

And if so, we have an obligation to abide by its system. Jesus would have been God and thus perfect in every way.

Thus the world should submit wholly to Almighty God within the Catholic faith and pray for deliverance.

Thus Eucharist = the pivotal point of Catholicism.

Therefore the statement that her parents idea is just another belief is correct. It is not central to their faith.

In Christ.

Andre.

 

[Della]

Hey, don’t put words in my mouth! I never said that you believe just because you are biased. I said you are biased because you care. You are emotionally invested in the outcome, and therefore will put more emphasis on the facts that you think make your point (for example, apostolic succession). Just as person who doesn’t believe will put more emphasis on points that go his/her way (for example, no one has put a random sample of hosts under a microscope).

Cool that we agree though.

I do apologize. I didn’t intend to misrepresent your thoughts.

I see what you mean, but there is such a thing as objective truth. No matter how much I might care, my pointing out favorable aspects of what I believe still doesn’t change that fact.

As for putting the host under a microscope, that would not be a good test of the Real Presence since it is a sacramental presence that cannot be seen or in any way deduced just from looking at a consecrated host or the consecrated wine. They are articles of faith not objects of scientific research.