What you would have told yourself back then

[Liberanosamalo]

People who have the money to pay for college but choose not to have to ask themselves why they had children to begin with, or why they had more than they could provide for.

Oh, I completely disagree.

WE don’t owe our children college. I know many parents who COULD pay for it but don’t because they want their children to learn in a controlled environment how to start paying their own way in life and that they aren’t owed stuff just for breathing. And often at that age, little “kids” don’t appreciate anything they don’t earn themselves.

I’ve seen snot-nosed college students spend years getting drunk and goofing off and getting low grades on mommy and daddy’s dime. And I’ve seen kids whose parents could afford it but chose not to have to work, earn money, balance schedules, get good grades to keep academic scholarships and then graduate early to keep the overall bill low.

Which one would YOU hire as an employer?

Sometimes the greatest gift a parent can give a child is doing less for them rather than more. The point of being a parent is to prepare your child to be an independent adult who can take care of themself, not someone who is dependent on other people for their life.

 

[kage_ar]

You sound exactly like every other rebellious teen.

Crack open the Bible. See what the Bible calls rebellion.

If you hate big business, why do you suckle at the breast of the biggest businesses there are (internet, alcohol, video games, porn and drugs)? Be a REAL non conformist - ditch those things and take up something like reading or playing an instrument.

 

[Catholic90]

I am nearly 17…Whenever I think of big business, it makes me sick… …I thought that because I’d inherit insurance money, 2 cars (one of which I’d sell and the other I would have all to myself) and my sister and I are old enough that she’d get emancipated and we’d share rent in an apartment. I’ve always wanted to live in an apartment. To me, quality of life increases as the quality of material possessions decreases.
.

This is sooo funny.
You HATE big business, yet you want to take advantage of that big business and inherit money through insurance! Who says your parents would leave you all that much!?!

What about your sister? Sister might get a car and inheritance. And who says she would want to live with you, a pot smoking porn abuser? She might not want to risk her well being by living with someone who has drugs around.

Enjoy life. You are at the age where you know it all. Soon, you will realize that you don’t quite know as much as you thought, and as you get older, your “intelligence” will decrease! (ha, ha).

Ah, yes. To be a teenager again and know everything. Those were the days!

And keep pumping your money to the porn and alcohol businesses. The big businesses LOVE your money!

That is the great thing about you non-conformists…you are all nonconforming together! Ah, the irony…sad, really.

 

[vz71]

but if I make sure to surround myself with people I can trust when I smoke weed, and make sure not to go over board (like getting stoned, instead of just buzzed) then what is so wrong about that?

One of the things my parents drilled into my head from a very early age was the simple question “Where does this end?”

So…Where does it end? Every action you take has consequences that will stretch out for decades.

Consider what you said in the quote above…you feel it OK if you simply surrounded yourself with people that will protect you. Don’t you think they have considered the same? What if everyone is overindulging on the false premise that the people around them are going to protect them? How would you know otherwise if this was or was not the case? Where is this going?

Do you ever intend on having a profession? How will you get there with ongoing drug use? Do you believe your parents resources will always be there to help?
I know you think you would be better off without them, so how long do you think the finite resources will be there for you? What do you do then?

Keep asking yourself questions.
And of course, go to confession. Even if it is difficult to listen to your parents, you may find that your confessor is not.

 

[purplesunshine]

That’s not true, the children of parents who are genuinely poor and unable to provide generally have access to aid and loans.
.

uh…yeah…loans maybe but grant & such…are a total joke. You will have to pay every penny. I did the college thing financially on my own dorming (becuase there wasn’t viable off campus housing) and working two jobs. Unless you’re a minority no one cares and you don’t get didly.

 

[Jacob21]

“When I was a boy of fourteen, my father was so ignorant I could hardly stand to have the old man around. But when I got to be twenty-one, I was astonished at how much he had learned in seven years.” ~Mark Twain,

“The average teenager still has all the faults his parents outgrew.” ~Author Unknown

 

[sanctamaria17]

In a normal situation, I would agree with you, but not when there is abuse. Abusive parents often financially provide for their children, that doesn’t negate the abuse.

You might as well say he should bow down and respect them for giving him food and shelter. Fact is, when people decide to have children they sign up for that, the feeding, the sheltering, the college. People who can’t fulfill their obligations as parents shouldn’t have children in the first place, and while it’s natural for children to be grateful and to love parents, that doesn’t apply to abusive parents.

College is not an obligation…Not everyone gets good aid, even if they are poor…And you know something? I’m making better grades now that I’m working and taking care of my OWN food, shelter, and bills than when I was a freshman and had it taken care of for me…

I’m a legal adult. Why should my parents have to pay for everything, now that I’m old enough to start looking out for myself?

 

[flyingfish]

College is not an obligation…Not everyone gets good aid, even if they are poor…And you know something? I’m making better grades now that I’m working and taking care of my OWN food, shelter, and bills than when I was a freshman and had it taken care of for me…

I’m a legal adult. Why should my parents have to pay for everything, now that I’m old enough to start looking out for myself?

Where I live, if a person’s parents are considered wealthy enough to be able to afford college, that person will not be able to take out loans. In short, unless parents pay, the person won’t be able to afford college.

Some people are able to pay for college, but frankly I don’t know how it’s possible. In the program I studied, I had to spend every waking hour doing homework since there was a lot of it and it was quite hard. The amount of money that simply renting a place and tuition cost, the person would have to work full time.

In such cases I think parents are obligated to pay for college, because otherwise their kids will be screwed out of a future. If however the person will be loaned money despite parental ability to pay, then it doesn’t matter.

 

[purplesunshine]

Where I live, if a person’s parents are considered wealthy enough to be able to afford college,** that person will not be able to take out loans. In short, unless parents pay, the person won’t be able to afford college.**

Some people are able to pay for college, but frankly I don’t know how it’s possible. In the program I studied, I had to spend every waking hour doing homework since there was a lot of it and it was quite hard. The amount of money that simply renting a place and tuition cost, the person would have to work full time.

In such cases I think parents are obligated to pay for college, because otherwise their kids will be screwed out of a future. If however the person will be loaned money despite parental ability to pay, then it doesn’t matter.

You’re so wrong, FF. EVEN IF a person’s parent’s can’t pay for college it doesn’t mean that they get loans. If parents can pay, loans may be at higher rates, but there are TONS of loans out there. As I said before I was a financial independent, my after tax income was less than $8,000 most years and I got almost NO help from the government.

I had a somewhat hard program in college. I also had two jobs (sometimes a 3rd gig) and I ran 2 clubs and was a part of another 2. I had six classes most semesters becuase I had NO credit from HS and the college expected you would. I studied like a maniac, I worked with my professors (those who knew what I was facing) and I just got by. I’m paying on my loans now.

I will not be paying for my children’s college if I ever have children. College isn’t a divine right. I’m doing much better financially than my friends who had parents pay for college.

Graduating college with my bachelors I had 4 years of incredible work ethnic, diverse skills and the ability to present myself. Even with the economy in a downward slide I got a job…actually I not only got a job but had about 2 DOZEN offers and many more that probably could of panned out. My friends who didn’t work through college…even those who now have their masters are still unemployed. Infact, of the 3 or 4 graduating classes I am friends with, I can’t think of a single one who didn’t work and is employed.

 

[flyingfish]

You’re so wrong, FF. EVEN IF a person’s parent’s can’t pay for college it doesn’t mean that they get loans. If parents can pay, loans may be at higher rates, but there are TONS of loans out there. As I said before I was a financial independent, my after tax income was less than $8,000 most years and I got almost NO help from the government.

I think the loan situation just depends on rules where you live.

I am curious, how did you pay for school with less than 8k of income? It often costs that just to get a (pretty ******) place to live and food.

I will not be paying for my children’s college if I ever have children. College isn’t a divine right. I’m doing much better financially than my friends who had parents pay for college.

Maybe your attitude will change if you have children. I don’t have children either, but personally if I ever do I will be sure they get the best life I can give them. While what you were able to accomplish is admirable, I would want my own children to be able to focus solely on their education without worrying about money.

I understand some parents are poor, but how can anyone justify sitting on money while their children struggle. It’s just very weird to me, and I’m not even a particularly warm or generous person.

It’s one thing to encourage work for the purpose of getting hired after graduation (can be done via internships and the like in the summer), but not paying for school while you have the money? I am curious why you want to do this to your children.

 

[sanctamaria17]

So kids can learn how to take responsibility for themselves and their future?

My parents stopped being able to afford a ton of my expenses. I didn’t want to transfer, so I had to get a job and take on expenses. Yes, the government did allow me to take out loans because, while we do pretty well (I didn’t need FWS), we weren’t considered exceptionally wealthy. At the same time, I am pretty able-bodied, so I got a job in a restaurant and got an apartment (cheaper than dorms). I pay for TV, Internet, groceries, etc.

My roommate’s parents could afford it but her cousin lived off parents’ money and failed out, so her dad told her he’d pay community college and anything after that, she’d pay herself. She worked, saved her money, and transferred to my school. She’s a very smart, independent lady and she’s looking at getting her MBA and her JD. Another friend had a job throughout college and got scholarships. She was premed! She’s in medical school right now.

You can do well without college. I have friends who joined the military or went to trade school (some of them will make more money than most of us!). Or, by the same token, those can enable you to find other ways to pay for your education. Or, if you’re living independently by the time you’re in your early twenties, you can apply for aid as an independent.

I’m proud that I’ve had to work for my education. It really taught me to manage my time. And I honor my parents even more, for encouraging me to have a work ethic. Me taking on extra loans/expenses has also allowed them to be able to help my younger siblings with college. It’s enabled my dad to start going back to school to finish his degree (my mom has an Associate’s but neither parent holds a BA). And it taught my entire family, extended and immediate, that their oldest child/grandchild/niece can survive.

And, to the OP, when I was sixteen or seventeen, I resented my parents too, even though they are good people. But, now that I’m away and starting to take care of myself, I honor the work they’ve both had to do, the hard times they went through, just to raise me and my younger siblings, to get a house in a good area, to pay for Catholic school when we lived in a dangerous neighborhood, to give us opportunities that neither of us had. No, they’re not perfect, yes, there are ways that they’ve both hurt me in times of frustration, but I love them and they me. They helped me become the person I am today.

As for your assault on big business…Let me tell you, I’m pretty politically liberal (except on pro-life), I’m majoring in International Development, minoring in Economics, and I’ve interned at social justice (but not abortion supporting) non-profits…and I don’t think big business is evil. Yes, there are companies and corporations that misuse their power and influence but there are small businesses, so-called organic and labor friendly places that also do so. And some corporations use their influence to do good, to sponsor things like environmental clean up, education, fair trade and medical research. Finally, big business gives people jobs, pays for their health care and can help people support smaller businesses and local economies. Heck, the best people in my field hold MBAs and work for and with big businesses and for-profit companies. The President of my favorite non-profit worked for years at the World Bank! Money isn’t evil but the worship of it is.

Heck, if it weren’t for some larger chain supermarkets, I’d go hungry while in school…And if people didn’t have money, I’d be out of a job (you need money to go to a restaurant, for drinks, dinner, and server’s tip). You don’t understand how many of us need that right now, regardless of whether we’re supporting families or trying to finish post-secondary educations… And a lot of the moms I see in the crisis pregnancy center I’ve volunteered at are grateful for their jobs at various chains…It means their babies don’t starve…And, for some of them, they can get health insurance they wouldn’t otherwise have had…meaning their babies can go to the doctor if they’re sick. Big business means we don’t starve.

 

[purplesunshine]

I think the loan situation just depends on rules where you live.

I am curious, how did you pay for school with less than 8k of income? It often costs that just to get a (pretty ******) place to live and food.

Well, the rules are national & from the federal government. Some schools do a better job than others in explaining that.

I stayed in the dorm (no viable housing) and took out loans. I had most of the tuition paid for by winning scholarships. But most of my living expenses were rolled into loans.

Maybe your attitude will change if you have children. I don’t have children either, but personally if I ever do I will be sure they get the best life I can give them. While what you were able to accomplish is admirable, I would want my own children to be able to focus solely on their education without worrying about money.

I understand some parents are poor, but how can anyone justify sitting on money while their children struggle. It’s just very weird to me, and I’m not even a particularly warm or generous person.

It’s one thing to encourage work for the purpose of getting hired after graduation (can be done via internships and the like in the summer), but not paying for school while you have the money? I am curious why you want to do this to your children.

I don’t think I will change when I have kids. I will give them the the ability to fish…which I don’t believe college is the teaching how to fish…its part of the fishing.

I don’t believe any parents but multi-millionares reall “sit on money” I’m sorry I need retirement money especially when no one else will be able to take care of it for me. (like the government) Retirement is a very serious thing and at 65 or even 70 you don’t have the opportunities or ability that someone does at 18 to earn money. And someone who is prepared for retirement will be able to help an adult child if something goes wrong. A parent who becomes destitute and risks it all to let their kids go to college is just foolish.

Working during college is pivitol. Everyone has a summer job. Anacdotilly I spoke about the students I know. In my experice a “summer job” just dosn’t cut it.

 

[sanctamaria17]

It never killed anyone to work in school…or to work a few years and save money for school.

Besides, my work history gave me good references for summer internships…and I have a job to last me after graduation, should the job market be slim.

For the kind of school I go to, most of us have to work…unless their parents are sitting pretty…and some of those kids, their parents make them work anyway. The working students are some of the most hardworking people I know…and extremely dedicated to their studies…Not only that, they have references for jobs, experience dealing with people, and a better understanding of how to manage money.

It didn’t kill some of my friends to work, go to community college, and transfer…And it didn’t kill me to get a job when I needed to.

Why should a parent have to sacrifice retirement when kids can always get scholarships and work? Kids can get scholarships for college, adults cannot for retirement. You want something, you work for it. Something my father always taught me and I’m glad he did.

 

[ChemicalBean]

Waacm,

I think I “get” you. I’m a young adult myself. I came from a loving home in many respects, and my parents provided me with more things and opportunities than they had (and than my peers had); they often did so at great cost to them (perhaps retirement funds, or working overtime). Yet they weren’t perfect. Verbal abuse was constant growing up, and unfortunately still happens. It hurts - your sister’s self-esteem is damaged, and you are angry. I occasionally need to seek help for depression or anxiety attacks.

I liked your original post for its honesty. You are clearly not a troll; judgmental responses borne out of a superior-tough-love complex won’t help you much, and I’m glad you have the maturity to respond out of reason and not more judgment. Logic and conscience tells you that you “shouldn’t” feel that way about your parents if they died, yet to stuff that conclusion on your emotions would, in fact, be dishonest. I acknowledge your feelings because I also wondered whether I really loved my parents. My head told me that they loved me. My heart said I didn’t love them back. Life shows that Christian love is neither just a thought or a feeling. It just “is.” You show it through actions that reflect your decision to love, actions that are creative, life-giving, and joyful, acts that are at once both sacrifice and gift to you as well (funny how that works.)

I remember walking to class in the snow during my first semester of college thinking “I finally had it made, I’d earned scholarships to cover me, no parents telling me what to do, I can be my own person, this is the life.” It felt great for a few days after that, until I also realized that I was terribly alone. It was up to me to find supportive networks that would hold me accountable. To some degree, a good fraternity can do that - but in joining one, you are choosing to give up some of your autonomy!

If you want to read something by a very wise non-conformist, read the Rule of Benedict. Then read commentaries on it. Yeah, it’s kind of alternately spiritually poetic or very dry and very full of paradox. For example, he immediately examines ways to be a monk and ironically concludes that the best way for most people is to do it in community. The canonical vows of most religious orders (poverty, chastity, obedience) are also paradoxical: they witness that renouncing greed, lust, and authority ultimately make us more free and give us power over ourselves.

 

[Waacm]

ChemicalBean,

Thank you for being on-topic! I kept getting e-mails that people responded and all it is is babbling about how to pay for college. Do they really think that’s what I need to hear?

You all might be interested/delighted to hear that the night I posted this thread I prayed hard for God to speak to me, and to leave me without doubts like he has in the past, and I feel that he’s doing that now. All of yesterday and the day before my conscience has been screaming, it seems. My thoughts were racing, my ideals felt as if they were being brutalized, and my entire thought process seems to have returned to the days of my confirmation, when I was sure and stead-fast in my faith. I think God must have been near by me, and just his presence was purging my heart and mind. At this point I suppose I’ve just got to accept the conclusion, and unfortunately God didn’t just give me the solutions, like I wish he would. He has left it up to me to decide what to do about my life with a renewed state of mind.

I still have my weed (though it is in the possession of a friend, so as to avoid being caught with it) and I am considering just letting him buy it from me at a generous price. My resolve to stop doing drugs is not strong, though I feel I shouldn’t seek it anymore. If I so happen to be at a party or something similar where a bowl of weed is being passed around, then I feel I could part-take, but I’ll cross that bridge when it comes. There is a chance I’ll decide it’s not worth it to allow my resolve to waver, but I might be confident enough to do it too, who knows?
Alcohol falls into the same place.

As for my journey, what I feel would be best at this point is to contact some kind of councilor I could talk to about my problems, most specifically with pornography. A retired Bishop once told me in the confessional that I need help of that variety, and I’ve always felt the same way. Maybe I can contact such a professional, and tell my parents to not ask me where I’m going, but allow me to go, and that I’ll be back safe and sound. I also need to go to the confessional again, and I want to.

I want to read that thing you mentioned, ChemicalBean, and I also want to read the study Bible my parents got me for Christmas, along with anything I can get a hold of by C.S.Lewis besides the Chronicles of Narnia.

If anyone can give me advise about the attitude that goes with going to the confessional when you know you have a problem that is going to take a long time to get over, and many confessionals, that’d be appreciated. Part of my problem in the past is that I know I’m going to fail in the exact same way as before, no matter what I do. Getting over lust is something I don’t think I’ll ever do… so how can I walk into the confessional, be forgiven and still feel good about things? Obviously things aren’t good… where’s the hope?

 

[flyingfish]

Well, the rules are national & from the federal government. Some schools do a better job than others in explaining that.

Not everyone lives in the same country.

Working during college is pivitol. Everyone has a summer job. Anacdotilly I spoke about the students I know. In my experice a “summer job” just dosn’t cut it.

In my experience, of all the people I knew only one worked (part time) during college, and the reason for that was that this person had a dysfunctional mother who was unable to work.

Everyone else just studied during the year, and either worked, volunteered, or studied more in the summer.

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

I am nearly 17 and for the most part, I hate the people around me, especially those in a position of power above me. I am an anti-conformist in that way… Whenever I think of big business, it makes me sick… I don’t know if those details are really necessary, but I guess I’m trying to give you readers a glimpse of who I truly am.

A few months ago I realized just how much I don’t love my parents. In fact, they were gone from the house a little longer than usual, and the first thought that crossed my mind was “what if they’re dead in a ditch somewhere?” and my reaction to that thought was “My life would get better drastically.” I thought that because I’d inherit insurance money, 2 cars (one of which I’d sell and the other I would have all to myself) and my sister and I are old enough that she’d get emancipated and we’d share rent in an apartment. I’ve always wanted to live in an apartment. To me, quality of life increases as the quality of material possessions decreases.

Before I get to the point, I’ve started to use marijuana just because I can, and along with that I’ve had some alcohol (not a big fan). I don’t really care to do drugs beyond marijuana, mainly because marijuana is one of the safer ones and from what I’ve experienced, I don’t think I need to get any more high than marijuana can get me. Some might look in on my life and say that I’m using marijuana because of my lack of a loving relationship with anybody in my life, and I can’t say that is completely untrue, but that is something subconscious that I don’t actively control.

More to the point, I very much dislike my parents. If I’ve ever “hated” something in my life, my parents are probably it. Everything they do, say, and decide bugs the living hell out of me. My dad is completely moronic, ludicrous, and stubborn in his way of thinking. And my mother just goes with the flow, allows him to control her, and is completely lacking in self realization. (She is 110% against alcohol (yes I meant 110%) which is probably a big reason why I wanted to try it (anti-conformist)). I am a junior in high school and so I only have to wait another year and a half until I am rid of them, and I can go off to college and be my own person finally, but I feel like it is an injustice I even have to wait that long.

My point, What do you think? I’d like an outside opinion from an uninfluenced adult. Maybe you can tell me what you wish you would have known at my age, or what you believe I need to realize before I can be happy, or make good choices in my life. Tell me whatever you please, just try to be thoughtful, realistic, and inspiring. I plan on taking a little journey on my own. Get out of town, and just be one with the world. Any suggestions on what I should do on my journey? I would really like to put myself up to some kind of test, except I want it to be a test of who I am. I was thinking it’d be something like parking outside of a church where confession is being held, with my marijuana, and a pornographic magazine. I would do whatever I please in that moment, in whatever order I please, and afterwards I’d want to draw some kind of conclusion of who I am. I haven’t been to confession in at least 4 months, and I have a big issue with keeping my lust in check (hence the pornographic magazine. I don’t actually own one of these btw, I have only ever used the internet for such things. Been doing so for about 4-5 years now…).

Thank you for your time.

I’d have shaken myself by the scruff of the neck and said, “Snap out of it and count your blessings! Offer up your difficulties to God, because He is calling you, and you’ll be restless and unhappy until you answer.”

Would have done me a world of good.

 

[musicality]

If anyone can give me advise about the attitude that goes with going to the confessional when you know you have a problem that is going to take a long time to get over, and many confessionals, that’d be appreciated. Part of my problem in the past is that I know I’m going to fail in the exact same way as before, no matter what I do. Getting over lust is something I don’t think I’ll ever do… so how can I walk into the confessional, be forgiven and still feel good about things? Obviously things aren’t good… where’s the hope?

Details of how Catholics approach confession:
fisheaters.com/penance.html

I’m in a very similar place to you concerning lust. It is undoubtedly my biggest struggle, and seems to be the same for you. So, I would suggest looking at the issue from a different angle.

I’m sure you can remember a time when you were unaware of the existence of many of the temptations you now face. There was a time when you were perfectly fine without pornography, masturbation, etc. Now, it may seem impossible to go back to that time, and truthfully, you can never go back to a state of being where you are unaware of the things that lead you to lust.

Do the next best thing–Avoid the things that lead you to lust. One of the things that we say in an Act of Contrition is that we will avoid near occasions of sin.–This means that we will do what is necessary to avoid situations where we are likely to sin.

For me, because internet pornography provided a huge temptation, it meant that I placed a web filter on my computer to avoid surfing to a page with pornographic material. I also stopped visiting sites that I knew contained suggestive material that lead my mind to wander and search for even more inappropriate material.
I suppose that’s just a sample.

If nothing else, talk with the priest about everything you have mentioned here. Go through the examination of conscience that I linked you and write down specific things if you feel it will help you remember what you’d like to talk about.

 

[musicality]

Oh, and take a look at the prayer at the bottom of my posts.

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

I grew up in the sixties and I cannot imagine any attitude more conformist, non-thinking and trite than “I hate authority, I hate my parents, and I can’t wait to get high”.

A big Amen to that.

And you know, whatever excellent advice I might have given myself, looking back—I probably would have rejected it out of sheer adolescent rebellion.