Whatever brings a person to God is holy

[Beryllos]

Many good comments here, but also a bit of extension and projection. Rather than read the actual words of a rather plain and uncontroversial article, we attach to it everything we think and feel about the author and say, “This is what it really means. This is what the author really intended to say.”

In this instance, I don’t see any hidden payload, and I think this article can be safely read without prejudice.

 

[edward_george1]

I rather frequently preach about how God can use whatever circumstances we are in, good or bad, to bring us to himself. Even our very worst sins, the moment we hit bottom, can be redeemed.

HOWEVER I always qualify that by emphasizing that we cannot presume on God’s mercy, and we shouldn’t go looking for trouble, and then count on God to bail us out.

The reason so many people are criticizing the title of this article is that, in the context of other things that Fr. Martin has said, which are problematic when taken to their conclusions, he seems to be leaving out the qualification I would be inclined to make.

I would argue that holy things are the surest way to get us to God. But sometimes some unholy things can be the means by which we get back to God. We should seek out the holy. We should not seek out the unholy. Fr. Martin has a history of pushing the envelope, as others have said. He has a way of writing such that he doesn’t say something that is technically wrong, he leaves just enough plausible deniability in there to say that he’s still preaching according to spec as far as the Catechism and the Magisterium are concerned. But he also tends to have some blind spots that could admit of problems.

To be fair to him, he’s not as bad as Richard Rohr, who writes as though he failed 2nd grade catechism in an effort to push his own agenda.

-Fr ACEGC

 

[upant]

He has a way of writing such that he doesn’t say something that is technically wrong,

He has called the Holy Spirit a “she”, definitely agenda driven

from his facebook page

And, finally, hope! Hope always. Live in hope. Hope in the Holy Spirit. Things can always improve. And the Holy Spirit knows what She’s doing.

does the church teach the Holy Spirit is a she?

 

[stpurl]

Perfect example there of what Father was talking about. With the Holy Spirit being a spirit there is no actual ‘gender’ although Jesus (Second Person) is definitely male, and specifically mentioned the First Person (God the Father) as ‘father’. So one could theoretically use either ‘male’ or ‘female’ (or ‘neuter’) pronouns for the Spirit.

However, despite the last 50 years or so, the consensus in the English-speaking world had been, for centuries, that a male pronoun or collective, I.e. mankind, he, etc. stood for both sexes, male and female.

There is no precedent or tradition where the use of the female pronoun such as “She” is used to represent male AND female.

So using “HE’ for the Holy Spirit acknowledges male and female.

SHE for the Holy Spirit though used in a very finely and sophistic sense of the word and theoretically acceptable is viewed by the majority (the ones Fr. Martin is supposedly addressing) as being purely female/feminine.

Very disingenuous and will, of course, be met with, “According to the STRICT definition it is PERFECTLY True”.

How I detest the overwhelming ambiguity of ‘messages’ from the modern Church (and modern society) which are meant to obfuscate and confuse people.

 

[ColoradoCatholic]

We just pointed out without any bias that the logical conclusion of the statement is false.

Not everything that leads to God is holy. So the the statement is wrong.

 

[Beryllos]

You got me there.

It’s not the first time a priest used the wrong phrase. When my parish priest makes a boo-boo, I don’t judge him, I just file it away and move on. In this instance, that is, the article posted, I am treating Fr. Martin with the same courtesy as I would my parish priest or any priest.

Read the rest of the article. It’s not so bad. I mean, it’s not very deep, but it has something good.

 

[ColoradoCatholic]

When my parish priest makes a boo-boo, I don’t judge him, I just file it away and move on.

I understand what you’re saying, but I can’t help but offer this because I was talking to someone in my own life about this today. It is in regards to this:

In this instance, that is, the article posted, I am treating Fr. Martin with the same courtesy as I would my parish priest or any priest.

Like I said earlier, I get that you and others are trying to be good Christians, but I would offer this:

Does being a good Christian and “not judging” mean letting them continue in their false ideas as long as we don’t make them feel bad?

Or

Is being a good Christian choosing to not judge him by saying “this guy isn’t lost yet, there is still time to correct his errors” and then pointing them out for him?

To me, letting him continue in his errors is the most Anti-Christian thing one could do (Again, I’m not accusing you or anyone of doing this). Rather it is essential that we point out these false teachings and lead people to the Truth. Telling someone they are wrong is not judgmental. However, just letting them continue in false teaching in order to not “rock the boat” is somewhat of a judgement of character in that you are basically saying “we can’t help this guy, its best to not cause trouble, let him continue to be wrong”

 

[Jen7]

Perfect example there of what Father was talking about. With the Holy Spirit being a spirit there is no actual ‘gender’ although Jesus (Second Person) is definitely male, and specifically mentioned the First Person (God the Father) as ‘father’. So one could theoretically use either ‘male’ or ‘female’ (or ‘neuter’) pronouns for the Spirit.

Mary is the Spouse of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit overshadowed her bd she got pregnant. The Holy Spirit is not “she.”

 

[OddBird]

does the church teach the Holy Spirit is a she?

Not saying I agree with Fr. Martin, but technically speaking, the Hebrew word for “spirit”, “ruah” – including God’s Spirit in the OT – is feminine. So he’s not getting that out of nowhere.

I agree that he’s walking a fine line, and that this kind of formulation in today’s world is probably not going be read in a neutral way.

 

[sealabeag]

Ohhhh dear… Nope. Addictions commonly lead people to God. Addictions are not Holy. Fr. Martin genuinely needs our prayers.