What's a clear, charitable "come-back" for protestants?

[jmcrae]

Then get out of Roman Catholicism.

And into what? Roman Catholicism was founded by Jesus Christ, personally. It is His Church.

The rest of them came about much, much later in time, and were founded by persons who were rebelling against Christ in His Church. (And why in the name of all that is good and holy would anybody want to follow someone who is rebelling against Christ?)

 

[FredSmith]

Explain to me again, as if I were a five year old, how “baptism now saves you” translates to “baptism doesn’t save you.” (Because I must have missed it the first time. I can’t find where you answered me, before.)

Addressed this many times already.

It is God who gave us the religious rituals. (Hence, “religious,” meaning “from God.”) Why would God give us these rituals, if they are not necessary for our salvation?

To be symbolic.

Jesus uses the rituals that He gave us as a pathway or conduit through which to give us the effects of His atonement.

Not what the Bible says.

We cannot literally wash ourselves in Christ’s blood as the thief on the cross next to Him could.

Why not? Just dump some wine on yourself. You believe that’s His blood, don’t you?

 

[FredSmith]

And into what?

Christianity.

Roman Catholicism was founded by Jesus Christ, personally. It is His Church.

Not in the Bible.

 

[JustAnotherThou]

I was evangelical Protestant for over 40 years before converting to Catholicism in 2004.

You are a priest, right? You are Christ’s representative on this earth.

Here is my suggestion. Answer, “Yes we do,” since after all, theologically, they are correct. You will not be disavowing the Catholic Church to admit that Protestants are correct in some of their views.

Then offer to bless them.

If they hesitate, ask them if they’ve read Pastor Gary Smalley’s book, The Blessing. (You might want to get hold of this book and read it yourself first.)

Gary Smalley was my pastor in the church I grew up in and he is accepted by evangelical Protestants as a paragon of solid Biblical truth.

His book The Blessing is all about the importance of Christians blessing each other, as outlined in the Scriptures. Offering a blessing to someone is a very “Biblical” thing for Christians to do. It is not some wierd “Catholic” ritual.

So if they refuse the blessing, suggest that they read Pastor Smalley’s book, and then smile and say your goodbye. Please say a private prayer for them, though.

But hopefully your Protestant friend will say yes to your request to bless them.

So do your priestly work and give them a blessing.

They will be extremely touched, and believe me, they will never, ever forget it. Your touch and your words of blessing will stay in their hearts and minds forever.

Protestants have very few “tangibles” in their practice of Christianity to cling to, and when they do have contact with a “tangible”, it is very meaningful to them. I believe that many Protestants are absolutely starved for the “tangibles,” which not only include the seven sacraments (especially Eucharist), but also tangibles like human touch, blessings, the Sign of the Cross, Rosaries, Holy Water, candles, art work, etc.

I believe this is one reason why Protestants “church hop.” They are searching for substance, for something “real,” and they think they can find it by being more “spiritual.” They don’t realize that it is in the physical that God reveals Himself and works in us. They haven’t connected this with the Incarnation of Jesus and His physical coming and dwelling and dying among us. Instead, they have the incorrect idea that the “physical” is of this world and therefore, should be avoided. So they continue to starve and continue to wander about seeking a place “to be fed.”

I and my husband were starved for all these tangibles, and when we started attending the Catholic Church, we felt like we had stumbled into a castle full of rich treasures.

Our daughter, who is a professional stage manager, feels the same way. Long before she decided to become Catholic, she said that all the other churches are just “pageants,” while the Mass is the real thing.

I believe your powerful blessing, offered as Christ’s representative, will continue to work in their lives and eventually bring them home to the Catholic church.

God bless you as you witness in love to those outside of the Catholic Church!

OK, I stopped reading the replies when they started becoming unfriendly.

I agree with CAT though! I think this is the BEST and most CHARITABLE way.

I would also ask, someone like CAT about their thoughts on inviting the people who are asking these questions to a Mass (of course if you have time). Say something like, there is a beautiful church (however many blocks away), if you would like I could meet you there and explain our Mass to you. My guess is you probably don’t have time for this, although it would be great if you do have time on a day that you get a question such as this. I think just explaining to people the facts about our Mass gives them SO much understanding.

 

[SD_Catholic]

Fred has got to own the record for the highest post per day average ever… He must be a very fast reader and typer in order to get through all the responses and still have time to answer them so carefully and fully ???.. hmmmm… I believe the science books depict the earth being round as a mere symbol… that an orange is actually the object being represented because it is the actual object that the earth is representing as being round…

SD

 

[Mannyfit75]

This lie has been debunked many times.

Really, how? There are a lot of them. Just look at your local phone book. You will find varies Baptist Churches, Lutherans, Calvinist, Assembly of God, etc. In fact take a look at the World Almanac. There are countless thousands of Protestant churches.

Actually, we’re very much united. That’s why we preach and teach in one another’s churches, cooperate on missions and social outreaches, and fellowship together.

I don’t see that at all. There are Protestant Churches these days that blessed homosexual unions and even ordain gay bishops. I see division in Protestantism.

It proves that Protestantism is man-made because it keeps on fracturing. This is the common Protestant practice. “If you don’t like the way, I run my church. I’ll make a new church.”

I heard so many conversion stories from former Protestant ministers and parishioners complaining about the disunity of Protestantism. It is very shameful. I am please that many of your Protestant brothers and sisters, have left their churches and come home to Rome and become Catholic.

 

[FredSmith]

Fred has got to own the record for the highest post per day average ever… He must be a very fast reader and typer in order to get through all the responses and still have time to answer them so carefully and fully ???.

Not really.

It all started the other day when I had bronchitis really bad and had nothing to do but to hang around and post here all day. I ran up about a million posts. That’s why my “post per day” average is so high.

 

[IgnatiusJReilly]

I’m talking about going directly to the source.

Ok. You acknowledge that your “interpretation” is not the orthodox one. Good to know.

I know why you’re not interested in what early Christians had to say on the matter. If you spent five minutes reading their readily available writings, your little interpretations and theories would dissolve like the sand they are.

That’s why fundies don’t spend a lot of time on Church history. You can hardly remain a fundie and know an ounce of Church history.

Then get out of Roman Catholicism.

I’m interested in orthodoxy. That’s why I gladly said goodbye to my non-historic, down right nutty fundamentalist worldview and joined the Roman Catholic Church. When you become interested in the orthodox, historical Christian faith, come join us.

Will do. Say hello to Satan for me.

Freddie is that the best you could do? ARe you doing a church lady dance now? Typical anti-intellectual, anti-orthodox, cultish fundamentalist.

Let me guess… You’re a… Southern Baptist? Or, even better, one of those “Bible church” types?

 

[jmcrae]

Christianity.

That’s the Catholic Church. (Back to where I started.)

Not in the Bible.

Matthew 16:18-19; John 21:15-19.

Not to mention the 17th chapter of the Gospel of John, and pretty much the entire Book of the Acts of the Apostles.

OH, wait - I bet it’s a “metaphor,” and that it means the exact opposite of what the plain text would seem to indicate.

 

[FredSmith]

Really, how?

By showing that the methodology they use is phony.

For instance, they include non-Christian religious groups and count them as Christian denominations.

Then, they will take a group within a denomination (such as, say, the World Missions Board) and count is as another denomination.

I don’t see that at all.

You’re Roman Catholic. If you were in our church, you’d see it demonstrated every day.

It proves that Protestantism is man-made because it keeps on fracturing.

And the fact that we are still united shows that Christianity is “Christ-made”.

This is the common Protestant practice. “If you don’t like the way, I run my church. I’ll make a new church.”

Really? If that were so common, then churches would be shrinking, not growing.

I am please that many of your Protestants have left their churches and come home to Rome and become Catholic.

See 1 John 2:18-19.

 

[jmcrae]

Why not? Just dump some wine on yourself. You believe that’s His blood, don’t you?

Actually I drink it, as Christ commanded me to do. (John 6:53) It becomes His Blood by the power of the Sacraments of Jesus Christ in His Church.

(How do you obey the commandments found in John 6:53? - OH, wait - I bet these, too, are considered “metaphorical,” and actually mean the opposite of what they seem to be saying. )

 

[FredSmith]

Ok. You acknowledge that your “interpretation” is not the orthodox one. Good to know.

I never said anything of the kind.

I said that I’m not interpreting the text, I’m going by what the text says.

I know why you’re not interested in what early Christians had to say on the matter. If you spent five minutes reading their readily available writings, your little interpretations and theories would dissolve like the sand they are.

Actually, we read them quite a bit. In fact, I spoke with my DCE just yesterday about one of the new classes we’re adding, where we’re going to be going into the writings of early Christians in great depth.

That’s why fundies don’t spend a lot of time on Church history. You can hardly remain a fundie and know an ounce of Church history.

Actually, if you were to come to our church, you’d see that we have two classes available on church history. They are the same level and use the same textbooks as seminary classes on church history.

We only have two now, but we will be adding more as the church continues to grow.

Freddie…

And once the name calling starts, it becomes clear that you have nothing of any value to add. Welcome to my ignore list.

 

[jmcrae]

By showing that the methodology they use is phony.

It is; I agree with this, and I wish people (hey Manny!! ) would quit throwing that statistic around.

In reality, there are about 138 distinctly different Protestant denominations - and they are divided on a lot more than the colour of the carpets, or their preferred mode of administration - they have serious theological differences, including conflicting ideas about salvation.

 

[IgnatiusJReilly]

Actually, we read them quite a bit. In fact, I spoke with my DCE just yesterday about one of the new classes we’re adding, where we’re going to be going into the writings of early Christians in great depth.

But you don’t care what they had to say about baptism. Why are you reading them if you don’t care what they have to say?

It becomes clear that you have nothing of any value to add.

As opposed to your insightful “interpretations” of the Scriptures by which you ignore anything that directly refutes your point. I’ve got to learn to start interpreting Scripture that way.

 

[jmcrae]

See 1 John 2:18-19.

It was the Protestants who “went out from us,” thus proving that they are not “of us.” (Not that I think Martin Luther is the anti-Christ. But he definitely rebelled against Christ in His Church, and led others to do so both by his example and by his encouragement.)

 

[CentralFLJames]

Explain to me again, as if I were a five year old, how “baptism now saves you” translates to “baptism doesn’t save you.” (Because I must have missed it the first time. I can’t find where you answered me, before.)

It may very well be time to perform an exorcism or shake one’s dust from one’s sandals. The mentally incompetent or those disposed from personal control of the full use of reason are not held accountable in God’s eyes to conscious rejection of The Truth.

In his own mind he has conjured up the English words “salvation” as the buzz phrase he wants to see in plain English in aerial type font. If that exact phrase is substituted with another word such as “saved”, even though identical semantically its not going to be sufficient for him to accept in his fundamental predisposed mind.

Recall the scripture warning about arguing with people who make you look like as disordered as themselves…

James

 

[FredSmith]

It was the Protestants who “went out from us,” thus proving that they are not “of us.” (Not that I think Martin Luther is the anti-Christ. But he definitely rebelled against Christ in His Church, and led others to do so both by his example and by his encouragement.)

The Protestants split from a corrupt and Unbiblical church, just as they should have.

Frankly, I’m happy that the people who converted to Roman Catholicism did so.

Not about the going to Hell part, but about the fact that we are whittling the overall membership down to people who are serious about their doctrine, about evangelism, and that we have to worry about fewer false converts.

 

[SD_Catholic]

FredSmith

You’re Roman Catholic. If you were in our church, you’d see it demonstrated every day.

Oh yeah… I forgot… which church was that?.. maybe I would like to visit it sometime.

SD

 

[jmcrae]

It may very well be time to perform an exorcism or shake one’s dust from one’s sandals.

Thank you; these are words of wisdom. I will take them to heart.

 

[SD_Catholic]

The Protestants split from a corrupt and Unbiblical church, just as they should have.

Frankly, I’m happy that the people who converted to Roman Catholicism did so.

Not about the going to Hell part, but about the fact that we are whittling the overall membership down to people who are serious about their doctrine, about evangelism, and that we have to worry about fewer false converts.

Let’s see you said that the first day you were here that someone said you weren’t saved… how rude… but you continually say that Catholics are going to hell… this I assume is OK since you are only here to save our poor lost souls

SD