What's a husband to do?

[pianistclare]

I completely understand that the best answer is to avoid temptation and the ocassion of sin and not be in that situation. My intention was not really to have discussion about whether that initial behavior was bad, as I noted, it well might be acknowledged as sinful. Only a few have ansered the question I tried to ask, so let me try to restate it:

Having engaged in this improper (and very likely sinful) behavior, is it appropriate to approach his wife for marital relatons? If not, what should he do and how long must he wait until the bad behavior has been “purged” and he can again appropriately approach his wife?

How long must he wait?
Is that all he wants to know?
Sheesh.
If he has to ask, he shouldn’t hold his breath.
Under your “premise” he didn’t think he did anything wrong, and now he’s wondering how it will take her to “get over it”.
Gimme a break.
There’s nothing here about reconciling.

 

[tominrichmondva]

So is the giving of the right to my body to my wife and her’s to me, as laid out in the nuptial ceremony and Church teaching, unilaterally revocable at will when one party deems the other to be unworthy?

And indeed, how does this errant spouse know when he has done enough penance to “earn” back the rights to his wife’s body that he received when they were married?

After all, we’re not talking here about physical or emotional abuse.

 

[pianistclare]

So is the giving of the right to my body to my wife and her’s to me, as laid out in the nuptial ceremony and Church teaching, unilaterally revocable at will when one party deems the other to be unworthy?

And indeed, how does this errant spouse know when he has done enough penance to “earn” back the rights to his wife’s body that he received when they were married?

After all, we’re not talking here about physical or emotional abuse.

uh,
It’s my understanding we were talking physical abuse.
Husband get all worked up via ogling someone else, and jumps on wife. She didn’t like it. Felt used. Sounds abusive to me. This thread was a “response” with a fictitious scenario that harks back to the original thread where this really happened. The wife was very upset.
Where do “rights” come in?
How about marital love? Anybody interested in that?

This is a bizarre thread.
OH, and how long is up to them.

 

[phillylawyer]

Having engaged in this improper (and very likely sinful) behavior, is it appropriate to approach his wife for marital relatons? If not, what should he do and how long must he wait until the bad behavior has been “purged” and he can again appropriately approach his wife?

I think it partially depends on whether the behavior was sinful or not. Went to a strip club and become aroused, probably not. Walking home from work and an immodestly dressed woman inadvertently turns you on, maybe.

In either case, though, I think the simple answer is ask your wife. Ask you wife what she would prefer in a situation like that.

 

[mommamaree]

It would be appropriate for him to approach his wife for marital relations, provided that he does not “use” her, as in, seek his own pleasure and leave her left wanting, or injure her in any way. Marital relations are a moral remedy for concupiscence, after all, and even non-sinful behavior can get a spouse revved up (husband or wife). What most people would object to, in my opinion, is the notion that a spouse can get that release they crave and then not care at all if their spouse also experiences pleasure or release.

Edited to add: I have just read the entire thread, and I see that I was misunderstanding the original question. I was thinking of the scenario of being at the beach and waterpark and getting aroused in that context, the husband asking his wife for relations. I think that is okay, because going to a waterpark is not the same as purposefully seeking out arousal in illicit places. But again, I restate, that the husband may not ever use his wife, which would be the same as treating her like a prostitute. The teachings of the Church have made it clear that Christian marriage is a holy vocation and the marital bed should be kept pure. Treating one’s wife like a prostitute who is simply an outlet for the pleasure of the husband is defiling the marital bed. However, seeking loving marital relations with one’s wife, even if the sight of women in swimsuits at the beach was the reason he started thinking about lovemaking, is acceptable.

(Ogling the women at the beach/waterpark is never okay, though. It is creepy to just about everyone who notices an ogling man, and is especially hurtful to the wife. Men who notice an attractive woman can be discreet, after all, and everyone has the ability to notice the attractiveness of people without lusting.)

 

[tominrichmondva]

Now, after this perhaps sinful perhaps not event, the husband is aroused. Is it or is it not appropriate for him to approach his wife for marital relations? Is there a waiting period before he should do so?

I see nothing about forcing anyone.

I don’t even see that there’s clearly been sinful activity.

And yet, the wife is supposed to deny her husband’s marital rights because he might have gotten aroused in an inappropriate way?

 

[pianistclare]

I see nothing about forcing anyone.

I don’t even see that there’s clearly been sinful activity.

And yet, the wife is supposed to deny her husband’s marital rights because he might have gotten aroused in an inappropriate way?

Perhaps not in this thread, you are correct.
BUT…
the thread was started in order to clarify or mitigate the content of a previous thread, through this “hypothetical” scenario.
In the original thread, the wife was very hurt that her husband obviously continually lustfully ogled women at a water park. When they got home, he (pardon my graphic tone) went at it forcefully and said “sorry, but I was really hot”. She cried herself to sleep.
Many tried to say “oh get over it, boys will be boys” while others said it was a really hurtful thing to do, as he clearly USED his wife. She claimed to be very hurt, and they are now agreeing to go for counseling.
But the fact remains, that some are trying to minimize the damage that this kind of thinking does to a marriage. By saying the wife is mean, withholding relations for no good reason, and the like,. This is not the case at all. It’s not about “resuming relations”. It’s about what caused the rift in the first place and where there can be a happy reconciling at the end of the day.
At this point, since they both agree to see a counselor, the thread should finish.
They are working on their relationship, and that is a good thing.

 

[tominrichmondva]

In the original thread, the wife was very hurt that her husband obviously continually lustfully ogled women at a water park. When they got home, he (pardon my graphic tone) went at it forcefully and said “sorry, but I was really hot”. She cried herself to sleep.
Many tried to say “oh get over it, boys will be boys” while others said it was a really hurtful thing to do, as he clearly USED his wife. She claimed to be very hurt, and they are now agreeing to go for counseling.

Ah, yes, OK, the original scenario is much different… and sounds more like abuse and disrespectful disregard for the wife’s personal integrity.

Sexual union should always ideally be loving and caring and ordered to the person of the spouse, not the result of the husband’s perusal of porn, or the wife’s perusal of romance novels and Rom/Com movies. Both forms of escapism de-personalize the spouse.

 

[cheese_sdc]

Please share your thoughts.

You’re over thinking it. Go and have fun with your wife.

 

[mommamaree]

You’re over thinking it. Go and have fun with your wife.

Overall, I agree with this mindset. Sex between a husband and wife is holy, yes, but it is also meant to be fun. It is a gift from God to married couples.

A wise priest (at least, I think he is wise) told me not to worry so much about marital relations, but just enjoy and be thankful that I have someone with whom I can play and love. He stressed the playful aspect of it.

 

[CuriousInIL]

In partial response to a few of the posts, this is not a situation in which I am involved. This was meant to branch off from that other thread because there, as several have pointed out, there were other specific facts regarding the interaction of the spouses. I was trying to elicit responses on the more general point which was not so relevant in the other thread where the behavior clearly caused a problem.

It was why I tried to make it clear that I was encompassing both sinful behavior as the initial point or/and behavior that was not sinful by use of a hypothetical which is NOT intended to be the situation in the other thread.

 

[Prov31HelpMeet]

This is all very interesting of course, and yes a man who is struggling with temptation in this area should probably avoid these things. The OP points out that immodesty is now the norm, so men–who are primarily visually stimulated–must pretty much lock themselves in their homes to avoid being exposed to half-naked women’s bodies. We’ve come a long way, ladies.

But it is even more interesting that no one EVER admonishes women to guard against their own innate moral challenges. Why don’t we tell women to stay away from divorce porn novels like Eat Pray Love? Or tell them to turn off the lurid, caty voyeurism of daytime talk shows (because tha’t all they are) Or what about our vanity problem? If my husband spent nearly as much time in from of the mirror as I do, he would need to go confession.

And don’t say “it’s the society telling us to look gorgeous!” My husband tells me I look gorgeous first thing in the morning in a t-shirt, pony tail and jeans constantly. He is the ONLY man that should matter in that regard, yet I still obsess over make up, etc.

The narrative as held hostage by feminism for the last 40+ years is maddening.

 

[EasterJoy]

I have to remember you are asking a hypothetical question.

Just as when you are single, you have a duty as a Christian man to see others as human beings, and not as objects. When you’re being aroused all day, married or not, your first goal is of course to keep turning your mind back to the realization that you are looking at and thinking about daughters of God. That doesn’t mean you’re not going to be aroused, but a reminder to have some respect. The whole universe does not revolve around you and what you want.

Likewise, when a husband approaches his wife, he needs to open his eyes, look at her and how she is doing, and not just go into his contact with her in the unexamined attitude: “I have this need, where is my need-meeting thing, I know I keep it around here somewhere?” It doesn’t matter why you are aroused; spouses ought to approach each other as human beings, not as things.

Do you talk to your wife about it when you are aroused by some other woman? Well, I’d ask her. She may not want to know or she may want you to go cool off or she may be pleased that when you are aroused you think of her. As long as you are seeing her as herself, your wife, and not an object, then by all means do what the two of you are inclined to do. It is not as if arousal is a bad thing. It is merely a powerful thing that can incapacitate the brain and conscience, and so be careful with it.

 

[phil_at_dayboro]

After reading the initial post,I burst out laughing,in my mind that is,
I wouldn’t try to explain the humour to my wife sitting beside me,
She see’s no humour in such things,
Your talking about male arousal while looking at people / magazines / television etc,
Then coming home to do the deed, well my friend,life is nothing like that,
You can’t just come home and behave like that,we are not cattle of the field,
Males are often mentally aroused,well, maybe not Aroused as such, but admire what is out and about, that’s natural, We learn to have respect for ourselves and the people around us, we learn to control our feelings, those that fail, end up in jail on serious charges,

 

[Galbin]

An additional follow up:

Same questions but assume the behavior is a non-sexual sin, e.g. Husband robs a bank, or husband comes home after directly lying to boss about being sick, or husband comes home after deliberately missing last Sunday mass of the day, or etc.

Does the non-sexual nature of the sin change the answers?

The difference is that while the above are morally wrong, they are not insulting to the wife or defiling their relationship. I have sexual needs too, but I would never get turned on by another guy and use my husband to satisfy my arousal. That is just awful…

 

[bisco]

completely inappropriate, spoken from experience. sin is never appropriate. took me years to understand that. fortunately, i have been blessed with a very patient wife.

 

[CuriousInIL]

To restate it another way, Having lusted after another woman to the point of uncontrollable arousal, is it appropriate for a man to use his wife as a surrogate for the object of his lust? Does that really even require a response?

Yes it does. That’s the point of questions, especially hypothetical ones. And an answer to that (not quite accurate restatement) - and I understand what your answer would be - would have lead to the additional questions that still are unanswered. What does he do now and how long does he need to wait until the inappropriate and sinful behavior is “purged” and he can approach his wife appropriately?

 

[CuriousInIL]

Of course not. SIN is the separation from God. Who wants a husband who is not good, honest, just, kind, truthful…in short Godly?

Let’s see: you describe a thief, a liar, rejecting God’s love.
Hmmmmm, sexy? No way. God doesn’t tolerate such…why would a good woman?
This person would have to do some serious reconciling…to both.

Trying to understand, not argue. Are you saying that sinful spouse = no marital relations? Ever?
How long or by what measure is reconciliation, especially regarding non-sexual sin, judged?

 

[mommamaree]

If my husband were to become aroused because he saw a billboard or racy commercial or we were at the beach, there is no sin against me or God. I would not expect him to wait any longer than when we had time and privacy. I would simply expect to be shown a good time.

However, if he went to a strip club or viewed pornography (or, as in the other thread, staring lecherously at other women), that would involve a form of infidelity. I would expect him to make attempts to reconcile himself to God and me before asking for marital relations.

I do not think that incidental arousal that happens prior to finding ourselves alone together is inappropriate. What is inappropriate is purposefully seeking out sources of arousal other than one’s spouse (or imagination of being with one’s spouse).

 

[underacloud]

If my husband were to become aroused because he saw a billboard or racy commercial or we were at the beach, there is no sin against me or God. I would not expect him to wait any longer than when we had time and privacy. I would simply expect to be shown a good time.

However, if he went to a strip club or viewed pornography (or, as in the other thread, staring lecherously at other women), that would involve a form of infidelity. I would expect him to make attempts to reconcile himself to God and me before asking for marital relations.

I do not think that incidental arousal that happens prior to finding ourselves alone together is inappropriate. What is inappropriate is purposefully seeking out sources of arousal other than one’s spouse (or imagination of being with one’s spouse).

Spot on.