What's a Traditionalist doing qt your typical Novus Ordo type First Communion catechism classes? Help!

[Julia_Mae]

Wow, so many veiled insults in that post.

Well, this is completely untrue and un-called for. I never “veil.”

 

[Julia_Mae]

There is no charity in such an approach, at least not as described here. It is little more than thinly veiled arrogance, and the catechist will likely not appreciate it.

You must be reading in some tone of voice you are imagining in your own mind, so please don’t attribute to me what you fantasize.

There’s not a reason in the world to be arrogant instead of open but insistent. Yes, I want to know, in this class my Parish is presenting on this topic of sin, what the Church teaches. You ask, and if they prevaricate, then you ask some more and then, if they still refuse, you challenge (pleasantly) if they refuse to give you a straight answer. My job isn’t “charity” or lack thereof, my job is finding the truth, if it’s there to be found. We are responsible for our own salvation.

 

[TrueLight]

The idea is not to impose our own will, but to be sensitive to others views and try to adjust.

And that goes both ways.

 

[TrueLight]

I think it’s a function of being educated which is popularly begun to be considered “elitist.” Imagine correcting anyone’s grammar on a forum these days. But… that’s off-topic.

However, it does speak to the apparent growing reluctance of people to delve into issues and search diligently for truths. They seem to want simple answers, hard edges and absolute answers. Not getting those things seems anxiety-producing. I believe this has much to do with the demarcation between NO parishes and EF parishes. And make no mistake, when the new pastor came to my closest parish he made it perfectly clear from the outset, we would become an EF parish, no one was getting communion in the hand and no OF Masses were going to be offered at all.

We aren’t the ones turning this into a battle of the parishes, we have the clergy to do it for us. If there is heresy, it’s coming down from above in many cases.

Forgive me if I am misunderstanding you.

Are you saying that the fact the Pastor started celebrating the EF exclusively was made him a heretic?

Would he not need the approval of his Bishop to do this?

 

[Thomas_Casey]

Forgive me if I am misunderstanding you.

Are you saying that the fact the Pastor started celebrating the EF exclusively was made him a heretic?

Would he not need the approval of his Bishop to do this?

Celebrating the EF is certainly not heresy. Taking out the Ordinary Form from a parish that is not an Ecclesia Dei parish doesn’t sound right. There has to be more to this story. No bishop can deny the people what is the norm. He can deny the extraordinary, but not the ordinary.

Is the new pastor an FSSP priest or from one of the other Ecclesia Dei institutes?

Fraternally,

Br. JR, FFV

 

[JReducation]

They’re starting to creep in in French. I work entirely in French every day, in technology (health care software).

We’re starting to use the odd abbreviation here and there especially in instant communications. For example, when we help someone else and are thanked, we respond “no problem” (pas de problème) in French. We’ve shortened that to PDP.

Give it time and we’ll manage to warp French as badly as English

So if there is no such thing as a Novus Ordo parish (and by legalistic definition, I agree with you) how can the term have been hijacked (which is what some people are claiming)?

It’s like anything else in language. Many words are hijacked for whatever reason and often used differently from the way they were meant to be used. After a while, they become part of the culture, even if the new meaning is offensive. Look at words such as gay, negro, bedlam and handicap. None of them meant what they mean today.

OraLabora;9745260:

I therefore fail to understand why people just don’t emulate the holy father’s terminology. It’s unambiguous, and it isn’t in any way open to a pejorative interpretation, and it makes it easier to say “I prefer the EF to the OF” in a way that doesn’t potentially disparage those who prefer the OF. /QUOTE]

Maybe the “Extraordinary form” doesn’t resonate with me and since there is nothing preventing use of “Traditional Latin Mass” or “Novus Ordo”…

I don’t believe that there is anything wrong with the term Novus Ordo mass. The thing that we often laugh at (clergy and religious) is that the term was the cover of the first edition of the revised Roman Missal and there have been three revisions since then. The order of the Latin Rite mass has changed three times since Pope Paul VI. Which one is “new”. If rumors are correct, the order of the EF is going to change in 2013. Will that become Novus Order 5th edition? Do you see how it gets really silly?

Novus Ordo parish is quite another thing. Or Novus Ordo Church, etc. The term has never been formally applied that way. The people who do, do so in an angry way. That’s totally inappropriate.

I don’t know what you’re experience is, but in my real-life experience, no one goes around saying extraordinary and ordinary form.

Around here most people do so. The EF is very common here. The Archbishop celebrates it, several diocesan priests do so as well, one of our brothers does so and it is also used in some places on special occasions. The only time that it’s not allowed around here is for the Easter Triduum. That’s because we do not have an ED parish. The Easter Tridduum can only be celebrated once. You can’t have an Easter Vigil in the EF and then again in the OF. If you can only do it once, you must use whatever is the norm, not that which is extraordinary. That’s a common principle of law. Which is interesting. Let’s say that you were at an Easter Vigil celebrated by a Franciscan. He would use the Franciscan Missal, which has different prayers and the Franciscan Lectionary, which has some different readings for the Easter Vigil. However, since that is the norm for Franciscans and the presider is a Franciscan, the norm of the religious order trumps the norm of the diocese. Don’t ask me what principle is at play here. I’m not a liturgist. I know liturgical law, but I don’t write liturgical law. It’s not my area of expertise.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, FFV

 

[Melchior_1]

: If rumors are correct, the order of the EF is going to change in 2013.

So instead of the Missal of 1967, the EF will use a Missal of 2013?

 

[JReducation]

So instead of the Missal of 1967, the EF will use a Missal of 2013?

I don’t know the details. This came up after Bishop Williamson published his six objections to the SSPX - Vatican reunification. I read it on a Traditionalist site. Apparently, the new order is ready to go.

I know that they have been working very diligently to get the new holy days into the EF calendar, such as: Mercy Sunday, Bl. Teresa of Calcutta, Bl. John XXIII, Bl. John Paul II, St. Maximilian Kolbe, St. Edith Stein, St. Jose Maria Escriva, and a few others. The Holy Father had expressed a desire to see this happen.

However, according to the discussion there is a plan to allow the EF to be celebrated ad populum and to make some changes in the OF that would bring the two closer to each other. I understand that the long-term goal is one form of the Roman Rite that takes the best of both forms. That’s all that I know.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, FFV

 

[The_Curt_Jester]

It’s like anything else in language. Many words are hijacked for whatever reason and often used differently from the way they were meant to be used. After a while, they become part of the culture, even if the new meaning is offensive. Look at words such as gay, negro, bedlam and handicap. None of them meant what they mean today.

Sigh. I already explained why a comparison between the one and the other (gay for example) doesn’t work, and I was told that we weren’t talking about that. And here we go swinging right around again to the exact same thing.

 

[JReducation]

Sigh. I already explained why a comparison between the one and the other (gay for example) doesn’t work, and I was told that we weren’t talking about that. And here we go swinging right around again to the exact same thing.

The point is that words are used to deliver different messages than the original message. It does not matter if we use gay or handicap as an example. We’re not equating gay and the mass or the traditionalist movement. We’re talking about word usage and the evolution of language.

You asked how these things changed. I said that it’s just like anything else and I gave you examples of words that are used differently today. In linguistics, we call that pragmatics of language, word usage, and nuance.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, FFV

 

[The_Curt_Jester]

The point is that words are used to deliver different messages than the original message. It does not matter if we use gay or handicap as an example. We’re not equating gay and the mass or the traditionalist movement. We’re talking about word usage and the evolution of language.

You asked how these things changed. I said that it’s just like anything else and I gave you examples of words that are used differently today. In linguistics, we call that pragmatics of language, word usage, and nuance.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, FFV

I also pointed out how Novus Ordo hasn’t changed. Or Novus Ordo church, for that matter. I think we’ll just have to concede that we can’t agree on this.

 

[Corki]

Thank you for your kind & understanding comments. Maybe you haven’t noticed, but those with orthodox beliefs are, as a de facto rule, banned from teaching at Novus Ordo parishes/Churches. So teaching the class myself would never happen.

You just need to find some like-minded Catholics and stage a regime change. That’s what happened in our parish and now one of those very orthodox Catholics is our Director and she chooses the teachers very carefully. It’s not something that will happen instantly but if you get enough people into teaching positions, positive change can happen.

 

[Stylites]

You just need to find some like-minded Catholics and stage a regime change. That’s what happened in our parish and now one of those very orthodox Catholics is our Director and she chooses the teachers very carefully. It’s not something that will happen instantly but if you get enough people into teaching positions, positive change can happen.

“Physician, heal thyself” comes to mind. I wouldn’t want my children taught by people who think “Novus Ordo parish” really exists or that attending an SSPX chapel is a good idea.