What's catholic teaching on cryogenic sperm banking for fertility purposes?

[choose_to_love]

@joe: Why yes, there is: the doctor may be able to collect semen using **electrical stimulation **or microscopic surgery while the man is under anesthesia (given drugs to make him sleep during the surgery). :

(from my post #15 I think above)

Now you know - aren’t you glad you asked?

 

[agapewolf]

I say bank 'em.

Not being completely straight with regards to Church’s teaching is worth the joy of having children. Confess once you have a healthy child in your arms and get on with it.

You have a fifty percent chance of not needing them anyway. So save them and if need them, deal with it later.

Not kosher, I know. Not the " right" answer. But you will regret not having the possibility for the rest of your life. It will wreck your life if you want children and can’t.

I will pray that you are one if the lucky 50%.

And this treats children as a commodity, and “right” and leaves no regard for their humanity and their own right to be conceived by the beautiful marital embrace…

If only one could understand the inner wounds children bear when they are “manufactured.”…

Sins are not sins simply because its a made up rule. Sins are sins because they are HARMFUL to us.

 

[Joe_5859]

@joe: Why yes, there is: the doctor may be able to collect semen using **electrical stimulation **or microscopic surgery while the man is under anesthesia (given drugs to make him sleep during the surgery). :

(from my post #15 I think above)

Now you know - aren’t you glad you asked?

I think I would pass on those options, too.

 

[BlueEyedLady]

And this treats children as a commodity, and “right” and leaves no regard for their humanity and their own right to be conceived by the beautiful marital embrace…

If only one could understand the inner wounds children bear when they are “manufactured.”…

Sins are not sins simply because its a made up rule. Sins are sins because they are HARMFUL to us.

Saying that it’s immoral is one thing, but I think that your assertion that being conceived by a doctor placing the father’s sperm in the mother’s womb causes deep emotional wounds is a bit over the top.

 

[Elizium23]

@joe: Why yes, there is: the doctor may be able to collect semen using **electrical stimulation **or microscopic surgery while the man is under anesthesia (given drugs to make him sleep during the surgery). :

(from my post #15 I think above)

Now you know - aren’t you glad you asked?

Electrical stimulation (electroejaculation) is not going to be a moral method because it is identical in essence to masturbation. Microscopic surgery may be an option (check with the NCBC as I recommended) but then you still have the dilemma of how to fertilize licitly when the time comes. IUI may or may not be an acceptable solution. It is “under discussion”. So with the counsel of a trustworthy priest you may be able to fly under the moral radar and achieve such a goal. But my question is why spend all this money and subject yourself to degrading feats of technology when the simple answer, the loving answer, the unquestionably moral answer is: ADOPTION!

Saying that it’s immoral is one thing, but I think that your assertion that being conceived by a doctor placing the father’s sperm in the mother’s womb causes deep emotional wounds is a bit over the top.

Not at all. Not for a Catholic with true understanding of the consequences of sin. No sin is victimless. All sins wound the charity of other souls. I am living proof. I was conceived in sin and yet I was redeemed by the grace of adoption. My birth parents didn’t want me but my adoptive parents love and care for me to this day. The wounds I received from my birth parents won’t go away. Certainly I have forgiven them for it, in absentia, but think about it. Of how much pride and joy were they robbed because they gave me up? As an adult, I may have the option to seek them out and reunite, but I don’t want it. My adoptive parents are real to me and nothing will change that. I will never know my birth parents and that is a profound loss to all three of us. Only the love of Christ and my adoptive parents can heal those wounds.

 

[agapewolf]

Saying that it’s immoral is one thing, but I think that your assertion that being conceived by a doctor placing the father’s sperm in the mother’s womb causes deep emotional wounds is a bit over the top.

I didn’t say that. I said “wounds”. Didn’t once say “emotional”. and didn’t say “deep”

and its not over the top…when one’s VERY MOMENT OF CREATION is messed with outside of God’s plan— to claim that wounds would NOT be present is over the top.

Our bodies and souls are NOT separate. The body manifests the soul. The body makes visible the invisible. Marriage images Christ’s love for the church, and is an analogy of the very inner life of the trinity-- the call to communion.

2 begets three. It is in the natural order of things. When diverting around that, phsycially, one messes with the spiritual realm. SPIRITUAL wounds are a VERY real thing. Wounds can begin that early on…and manifest in many ways.

Please watch your misquoting and adding words…and your sarcastic “smilie”

 

[BlueEyedLady]

I didn’t say that. I said “wounds”. Didn’t once say “emotional”. and didn’t say “deep”

and its not over the top…when one’s VERY MOMENT OF CREATION is messed with outside of God’s plan— to claim that wounds would NOT be present is over the top.

Our bodies and souls are NOT separate. The body manifests the soul. The body makes visible the invisible. Marriage images Christ’s love for the church, and is an analogy of the very inner life of the trinity-- the call to communion.

2 begets three. It is in the natural order of things. When diverting around that, phsycially, one messes with the spiritual realm. SPIRITUAL wounds are a VERY real thing. Wounds can begin that early on…and manifest in many ways.

Please watch your misquoting and adding words…and your sarcastic “smilie”

Any evidence of this “damage”, or is this an assumption? A source, maybe?

 

[Truth_Faith13]

Saying that it’s immoral is one thing, but I think that your assertion that being conceived by a doctor placing the father’s sperm in the mother’s womb causes deep emotional wounds is a bit over the top.

I can see their point…

Child: Mummy where did I come from?
Mum (natural way) well when two people are married and love each other very much they have a special hug which puts you in my tummy.

Mum (IVF) well it involves some aseptic techniques, glass tubing, plenty of machines, time, money, several doctors, appointments, lots of stress, failure, more money and so on and so forth…then when we finally succeed, needles and injections and then you are in my tummy!

 

[BlueEyedLady]

I can see their point…

Child: Mummy where did I come from?
Mum (natural way) well when two people are married and love each other very much they have a special hug which puts you in my tummy.

Mum (IVF) well it involves some aseptic techniques, glass tubing, plenty of machines, time, money, several doctors, appointments, lots of stress, failure, more money and so on and so forth…then when we finally succeed, needles and injections and then you are in my tummy!

This isn’t a full IVF procedure, although I would still find the assertion laughable if it was. This would just be a doctor putting sperm into the uterus of his ovulating wife.

 

[Truth_Faith13]

This isn’t a full IVF procedure, although I would still find the assertion laughable if it was. This would just be a doctor putting sperm into the uterus of his ovulating wife.

I was being a tad sarcastic…I don’t know the full IVF procedure but I know people that have been through it, the heartache when it’s failed, the injections, the money etc so I just derived the above from that.

I’m going off topic again…the OP is catholic so regardless of whether we agree with it, we should offer advice based on that belief. Don’t make things harder and more confusing n such a difficult situation by arguing the for and against of IVF/artificial insemmination. What you describe is still frowned upon (I believe) in the Catholic Church.

 

[BlueEyedLady]

His assertions are totally true and do not deserve your sarcastic smiley face, with all charity BlueEyedLady, generally you are kind on these forums but this was not nice. Probably because you do not believe in the spiritual realm that we do it is understandable that you were sarcastic and think his remarks are “over the top” or silly.

Not nice? No, what’s not nice is throwing out the statement that millions of people who have been born through various infertility treatments and technologies have some sort of problem or deficiency. Of course, the people born via these procedures don’t realize that they have a problem, there is no scientific record of any sort of problems that arise with people born this way, and there is no documented harm to the family unit. But despite the lack of evidence, she’s sure that there has to be something wrong with these people. That is what is not nice.

Furthermore, there are people on this board that have had children via IVF. Making assumptions about their children and families is once again, not nice.

 

[thewanderer]

Duplicate, also posted in Moral Theology. I answered this question in that forum.

Banking sperm can serve no purpose, as it must be used in an** artificial conception **technique that is gravely immoral such as IVF, AI, etc. You cannot “do” anything with the sperm that is moral, so banking it seems imprudent.

Truth_faith, I’m not referring to you but 1ke, he made a blanket statement that all artificial contraception methods are immoral when the latest catechism of the church is at odds with his statement. It’s easy for an older person to say it’s wrong no matter what but when I am going through difficult times it’s distressing someone does not use all catholic rescources to give a thoughtful answer

I just wanted to point this out, but 1ke was not talking about artificial contraception, but rather about artificial conception, which is a different thing altogether.

Also, the exception given for what is thought of as “artificial contraception” is only that when an action treats a legitimate medical problem or illness that procedure is still moral even if it produces infertility or sterility as an unwanted side-effect. It does not allow the use of artificial contraception for the purpose of contraception, but only for the purpose of directly treating a medical condition.

I am sorry that this seems harsh to you and that you are suffering with such a heavy cross. I will pray for you that you might find peace, hope, and joy despite your sufferings. God Bless

 

[agapewolf]

Not nice? No, what’s not nice is throwing out the statement that millions of people who have been born through various infertility treatments and technologies have some sort of problem or deficiency. Of course, the people born via these procedures don’t realize that they have a problem, there is no scientific record of any sort of problems that arise with people born this way, and there is no documented harm to the family unit. But despite the lack of evidence, she’s sure that there has to be something wrong with these people. That is what is not nice.

Furthermore, there are people on this board that have had children via IVF. Making assumptions about their children and families is once again, not nice.

Truth isn’t always “nice”. And STOP ADDING WORDS to what I’m saying.

But EVERYONE is disordered. We are all sinners. Saying that isn’t being “not nice”. It’s speaking the truth. And by the way, there are TONS of documented “evidence” of all the social, mental, and family harm to many different sins. You assert that this particular one isn’t but you can’t prove that either.

You keep saying “lack of evidence”… again, you are making up what kind of wounds you think I’m referring to. It is SPIRITUAL wounds. You don’t believe in God, and that is what I am referring to here.

If you are honestly so interested, contact jpiihealingcenter.org/ directly to see how the spiritual wounds haunt us and how they can be healed.

 

[NSFrame]

Adoption is wonderful as a choice, not as some sort of consolation prize when a person can’t concieve on his own. “Oh, but you can just adopt,” is not a valid response to someone’s anxiety around being able to eventually father/mother their own flesh and blood.

OP, it is true that sperm banking is not allowed - because of the means you have to use to get the sample. Forget the conception possibilities down the road, in the here and now this is what you’re contending with. You need to work with your doctor on the possibilities ahead with this in mind. Is it absolutely necessary to go through with a procedure that could destroy your ability to produce sperm? I think a lot of doctors operate under the assumption that, hey, you can just do IVF, natural fertility is somewhat disposable.

 

[BlueEyedLady]

Truth isn’t always “nice”. And STOP ADDING WORDS to what I’m saying.

But EVERYONE is disordered. We are all sinners. Saying that isn’t being “not nice”. It’s speaking the truth. And by the way, there are TONS of documented “evidence” of all the social, mental, and family harm to many different sins. You assert that this particular one isn’t but you can’t prove that either.

You keep saying “lack of evidence”… again, you are making up what kind of wounds you think I’m referring to. It is SPIRITUAL wounds. You don’t believe in God, and that is what I am referring to here.

If you are honestly so interested, contact jpiihealingcenter.org/ directly to see how the spiritual wounds haunt us and how they can be healed.

This is why I’m sure you’re wrong. You keep writing ‘SPIRITUAL wounds’ over and over again. I get what you’re saying, and I still think that you’re wrong and irresponsible for posting that as fact. There is no reason to believe that these people are wounded in any way. There are not any studies showing any sort of damage to people born via IVF. These people do not report problems. It is presumptuous to say that you know that these people have problems because of the way they were conceived when the actual people experiencing these “wounds” would disagree with you. Who are you to tell them that they are wrong and are actually experiencing serious harm because of how their zygote came into existence?

 

[BlueEyedLady]

You need to work with your doctor on the possibilities ahead with this in mind. Is it absolutely necessary to go through with a procedure that could destroy your ability to produce sperm? I think a lot of doctors operate under the assumption that, hey, you can just do IVF, natural fertility is somewhat disposable.

Most forms of chemotherapy carry varying risks of infertility. If he has leukemia, this is absolutely necessary and you really should not be trying to encourage him to reconsider the standard and best treatment option for such a serious condition.

 

[agapewolf]

This is why I’m sure you’re wrong. You keep writing ‘SPIRITUAL wounds’ over and over again. I get what you’re saying, and I still think that you’re wrong and irresponsible for posting that as fact. There is no reason to believe that these people are wounded in any way. There are not any studies showing any sort of damage to people born via IVF. These people do not report problems. It is presumptuous to say that you know that these people have problems because of the way they were conceived when the actual people experiencing these “wounds” would disagree with you. Who are you to tell them that they are wrong and are actually experiencing serious harm because of how their zygote came into existence?

I will not continue a discussion with you when you add words to what I’m saying.

I never said “problems”. I never said “serious harm”.

Contact the healing center. They have PLENTY of people who will report of the woundedness and healing.

 

[PJM]

=Johnsayon12;11458730]I’m catholic in my early 20s and was recently diagnosed with leukemia. My doctor told me with my treatments there is roughly a 50% chance of becoming infertile and recommended that I look into sperm banking although it is completely up to me. Is it morally acceptable for me to bank my sperm since I will be undergoing chemotherapy that has the potential to make me infertile? It would obviously never be donated to anyone else and only be used inside of marriage. I know catholic teaching is against in vitro-fertilization and I would never consider this option. I am unable to find any unanimous catholic consensus on this issue and am very concerned. Thanks for your help.

I/m so SORRY.

Know that you will be in my prayers!

The answer is NO! You may not do this.

I STRONGLY suggest getting an appointment with your priest and ALLOW him o explain why this is. Its a complicated and profound teaching.

God Bless you,
Patrick

 

[LROH]

I’m catholic in my early 20s and was recently diagnosed with leukemia. My doctor told me with my treatments there is roughly a 50% chance of becoming infertile and recommended that I look into sperm banking although it is completely up to me. Is it morally acceptable for me to bank my sperm since I will be undergoing chemotherapy that has the potential to make me infertile? It would obviously never be donated to anyone else and only be used inside of marriage. I know catholic teaching is against in vitro-fertilization and I would never consider this option. I am unable to find any unanimous catholic consensus on this issue and am very concerned. Thanks for your help.

Been writing and praying for you all afternoon…I’ve deleted about ten attempts. When finally the words I sought came. First cancer sucks! It takes all our neat plans and tosses them out the window…surviving cancer…amazing!

At 16 I was diagnosed with cancer, I understand your need to hang on to your hopes and dreams…you have a big fight ahead. Modern medicine is a gift! We are blessed to have chemo today that comes with 50% chance of infertility vs the death sentence these cancers were 100 years ago. I had a six year fight to preserve my hope of motherhood.

Through that journey I learned about human gifts God gave me that no money or textbook education can provide…perseverance, patience, dedication, and so many more…as my journey went on, even more than ever I wanted to share these with a child. Before I married it was a dream for someday, then I’d look at my husband and wonder …will we be parents? He knew several months into relationship that I was still fighting stubborn cells showing up on the pathology slides, that winning didn’t mean I’d have the dream of giving birth.

Hang on to your dream, trust your faith that if modern medicine’s leukemia cure costs you the ability to naturally father a child, it can’t rob you of the expanded gifts and opportunities modern medicine blesses you with to parent a child.

Be upfront with medical concerns when relationship looks like it is getting serious…this isn’t something to blurt out before you know someone is a potential mate, it is important to the discernment process and deeper discovery required before committing to marriage, the engagement can be extended to explore options before planning the wedding party…Any woman who would want your children will see you as a helpmate to raise those children, look for a woman mature enough to focus on the many years rearing a child vs one who insists a child born in the marital bed and giving birth is only way to become a mother.

Banking sperm and saving up cash for the IVF/AF procedures to be a father aren’t any guarantee that you’ll be a parent with the woman you choose to share your life with.

To use banked sperm to become pregnant your wife would be likely forced to take Hormones that aren’t without risk, or submit to surgery for egg retrieval where they take enough to do several rounds of IVF/AF to avoid future surgical risks, then if she does become pregnant she will have to get blood work done repeatedly in the two weeks post procedure to ensure hormone levels are going up vs miscarriage of all the fertilized eggs. The stress around that is so tremendous even if it works…through the process of failed AF/IVF many couples wind up divorced, disagreement over trying again…lack of support to one or the other when they aren’t understanding the loss and grief of spouse, for the dream, for the conceived children gone, for the eggs that will never have a chance of being a child. And the stress compounded when you must abstain from sex for the sake of the procedure. So many issues like these take their toll and frankly turn the child sought into a trophy, prize or possession rather than the divine gift children are.

I’ll be praying for you in your fight to beat cancer and discernment process regarding how to handle your dilemma. I pray that you’ll have everything that God intends for you on the journey ahead. Please establish scheduled meetings with a spiritual advisor to navigate the road ahead…for me having that support meant as much as doctors knowing their stuff to treat my body.

 

[Elizium23]

Adoption is wonderful as a choice, not as some sort of consolation prize when a person can’t concieve on his own. “Oh, but you can just adopt,” is not a valid response to someone’s anxiety around being able to eventually father/mother their own flesh and blood.

Adoption is not a choice. It’s a moral imperative for faithful, pro-life mothers and fathers who have to means to support more children than they can generate by their own means. If the OP intends to be married and have a family then there is a real possibility that the only moral option for him will be adoption. And it’s not a vocation to be dismissed lightly because there are far too few adoptive parents in the world and far too many unwanted children yearning for love and care and a forever home. It’s much more than a “consolation prize”. It’s a noble act of agape love that requires quite a bit more intestinal fortitude than knocking up your lovely wife once or twice. It requires a leap of faith and a step into the unknown, it requires a profound act of bravery to put your heart on the line and choose a child who may not get another chance at a stable family.

Planned Parenthood and the other supporters of the Culture of Death claim to be “pro-choice” and yet they denigrate adoption as an inadequate solution to unwanted pregnancy. They encourage unbridled sexual promiscuity and they increase unwanted pregnancy in the world without promoting the logical answer to mitigate the damage done by this phenomenon. Many pro-life people think they are unable or unwilling to choose adoption, in many cases because the Culture of Death has gotten to them and they believe that two kids is enough and they can’t go any further without giving up their Mercedes or their Prada or their cushy tee time. Any pro-life family worth their salt would be out there adopting kids until there isn’t room for them anymore. Adoption is the gift given to us by God the Father through baptism. We are all adopted children of God. When such an immense gift of grace has been freely bestowed by the Creator of all good things, how can we refuse to pay it forward?