What's Good got to do with it?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Jump4Joy
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
J

Jump4Joy

Guest
People claim there are no coincidence and everything happens for a reason. Or was gods plan? Then I think of incidents like the Holocaust, slavery, etc. Beliefs such as this has turned me off from furthering my faith. I don’t believe God puts anyone in our lives for a reason. Is that even stated in the Bible?
It’s weird hearing people talk like this. Some people believe God intervened in their relationship. Like a guy never called them back because God prevented them from premarital sex. Really? If God can stop sin on a small scale, why doesn’t He stop people from becoming dictators? Or stop world hunger?
 
Each of us will have our own personal perspectives based on life experiences and observations. It doesn’t mean we will have the answers for all the tough questions. It just means this is how we view the world around us in a way that makes sense. The explantions of evil and the holocaust etc have never been answered satisfactorily to my mind. Why did God allow this? is the common refrain. I have never found that Christianity can answer this in a way that makes sense to me. So while I reside within what we might call the Christian realm of thinking, I also have sought, and found, answers I can accept to these questions elsewhere. No one is obligated to agree and I am not looking for any converts…
 
Is it within God’s power to stop someone from talking to you because you’ll fornicate?
Why does God save one person from a car accident but let’s another die tragically?
I don’t know if I believe God plays a part in every little thing. I’ve been turned off by praying.

I’m a deep thinker, I cannot settle for simple answers. Some easily trust that God controls all things.
 
The answers I found which resonate within me are not going to be found in the Catechism. But I know many devout Christians who think along the same lines. I describe myself as a devout follower of Jesus and only Him. As I say, I have no wish to lead anyone away from teachings they hold dear, I can only speak for what has worked for me. But I don’t state these things dogmatically either. As long as we are human we will always have to deal with mystery. So I approach them as simply questions.

What if, instead of life being a long and involved set of seemingly random events, what if we, as eternal beings, all helped plan it event by event? What if the victims of evil volunteered for the role, knowing that life in the hereafter would more than erase any and all bad memories? What if the soul departs the body long before the greatest suffering begins?

I can’t answer these questions, but neither do I discount them. The mere fact of their possibility makes the unpleasantness of this life more endurable. I do know that the harder lessons we need are learned most effectively through adversity. Origen believed in the eternal nature of our souls and their pre-existence, a teaching which has prevented his canonization.

I’ve always been a fringe member of the formal Christian community, and was a rebel in the cult I attended for 20+ years. This is likely why I am drawn to writers like Richard Rohr, John Shelby Spong, and Marcus Borg. I love the Catholic church and do not foresee ever departing. But I also like and admire these alternative thinkers, even as they are maligned and discredited by more conservative teachers. I like to be able to see all possibilities, accepting with my limited human intellect that all or none may contain credible elements. That’s for me to decide. After 61 years of age I am only just beginning to see how very little I really know. But I love the ongoing study and the search. 🙂
 
Isn’t being conservative and thinking God plays a role in every part of your life supposedly a way every Christian should be?
 
Certainly, but we want to be very careful that how we define these things does not become a reason to be invasive with others’ beliefs. Even within Catholicism there is a large playing field which allows for a great deal of diversity of thought. Otherwise we become mere automatons, reacting by rote. The God role is one of relationship, one in which we play an equal part in giving and receiving. But I’d like to harken back to your statement;
I’ve been turned off by praying.
I’m a deep thinker, I cannot settle for simple answers. Some easily trust that God controls all things.
Praying comes in all guises. For me, though I do the Rosary and enjoy doing it, the major communication for me with the Divine is just conversation which takes place in my mind all day long.

Being a deep thinker is something you do well to be aware of, and becoming frustrated with the simple is most understandable. What others trust in is not for any of us to judge, as our faith and the ability to comprehend comes in various measures. I have to run, J4J, but hope to carry on with this later on. Blessings to you. 🙂 -CW
 
@Jump4Joy,

Part of the difficulty seems to be in your understanding of God. Some things you say make it seem you view God as just “another being” out there, like in competition with other beings. He sometimes comes to the rescue for some sick people or car accidents, but sometimes he does not.

God is not like that. His causality with the world is not like that. He is existence itself and holds everything together, and He knows all things in his undivided essence. He does not observe, think, and then decide to act.
 
Last edited:
Bone cancer, sexual assault, born into abject poverty, having an abusive parent, living in a war torn country, witnessing someone die tragically
 
Some of this is due to the free choice of humans, whom God allows to choose evil.

Some of this is due to the physical reality of a limited, created Universe.
 
If God supposedly intervenes during car accidents, why doesn’t he intervene for all
 
People claim there are no coincidence and everything happens for a reason. Or was gods plan? Then I think of incidents like the Holocaust, slavery, etc. Beliefs such as this has turned me off from furthering my faith. I don’t believe God puts anyone in our lives for a reason. Is that even stated in the Bible?
Are you saying that believing that everything happens for a reason makes you not want to grow in faith?

God has perfect and permissive will. Although He wants everyone to walk in His perfect will, He allows certain things to happen due to human choices.

God has given mankind free will. In order for us to choose Him, we must also be free to not choose Him. The Holocaust and slavery are the results of man’s sinfulness. God allows man to sin because He created us with free will. It is not God’s plan that we should sin and create gross evils on the face of the earth.
I don’t believe God puts anyone in our lives for a reason. Is that even stated in the Bible?
I am curious why you would not want to look at ever situation and see the good in it? Yes, something like this is stated in the Bible (Romans 8:28). God can make great good come out of terrible evil. He allowed HIs own Son to be mocked, beaten, scourged, and crucified for the greater good. What would make you doubt that He can make greater good come out of your suffering?
It’s weird hearing people talk like this. Some people believe God intervened in their relationship. Like a guy never called them back because God prevented them from premarital sex. Really?
Why does this seem weird? If a person wants to be grateful for a circumstance that prevented them from sin, what is the harm in that? It is really a matter of perception. If one is walking in the Spirit, one will look for and find good in all kinds of places.
If God can stop sin on a small scale, why doesn’t He stop people from becoming dictators? Or stop world hunger?
Good requires the cooperation of people involved. God does not override our free will to prevent evil and sin. But if people are willing to be stopped from sin, He will provide the grace to make that happen.
 
As someone who was sexually assaulted, convince me why a supposed loving God would do this. Was it my fault for not being holy enough? If I prayed hard enough, maybe it wouldn’t have happened, right? After all God intervenes when people run a red light and get in a car accident.
 
Last edited:
s someone who was sexually assaulted, convince me why a supposed loving God would do this. Was it my fault for not being holy enough? If I prayed hard enough, maybe it wouldn’t have happened, right? After all God intervenes when people run a red light and get in a car accident.
God loves you. He always will. Nothing you could do will ever stop God from loving you.

The evil person who assaulted you was just that: evil. He chose an evil thing.

We do not know all of God’s purposes in creation, but we do know that he wanted to create free creatures who could decide their destiny: One of love and for God, or one of hate and against God.
 
As someone who was sexually assaulted, convince me why a supposed loving God would do this. Was it my fault for not being holy enough?
It is only natural to question why such evil occurs, and why God did not prevent it. It is never the fault of the victim who was assaulted. The evil/crime is perpetrated and the culpability belongs to the offender, not you.

We are all responsible to grow in holiness, and should never reach a point where we think we have “prayed enough” or become "holy enough’. But many great saints who were prayerful and holy were raped, beaten, tortured, and killed. Clearly praying a lot and being holy does not prevent one from experiencing the evil that is in the world.

God will intervene in your life to heal you from your wounds, and He will intervene to bring you through the valley of the shadow of death, if you choose it. You will not be protected from all evil, but He will keep you in the palm of His had despite evil. You can be healed of the wounds of the assault, and you can experience the truth or Romans 8: 28

Romans 8:28 "We know that in everything God works for good with those who love him,who are called according to his purpose.

If you love Him, and follow His call for your life, He will work all things to your good.
 
Is it within God’s power to stop someone from talking to you because you’ll fornicate?
Of course. It was within His power to prevent Jesus from being crucified too.

We can pray that God will not let us fall into temptation, and He may do this in many ways.
Why does God save one person from a car accident but let’s another die tragically?
We may not know the answers to these things until we get to the other side, but He created us, and our lives belong to Him, so He gets to decide when our days on earth have come to an end. For most of us, it is more peaceful to accept that He has a plan for our lives, even if we do not know what it is.
I don’t know if I believe God plays a part in every little thing.
Jesus said so:

Matthew 10:29 Are not two sparrows sold for a penny? And not one of them will fall to the ground without your Father’s will.

I’ve been turned off by praying.

How did that happen? And what made you think that you had to be “turned on” in order to pray effectively?
I’m a deep thinker, I cannot settle for simple answers. Some easily trust that God controls all things.
Trust comes a lot harder for people who have been deeply wounded. We can tell you that God is trustworthy, but it will have limited effect until you are personally convinced that it is true.

One thing I can tell you for sure is that trust does not get built without any conversation!
 
Isn’t being conservative and thinking God plays a role in every part of your life supposedly a way every Christian should be?
This is consistent with the Scripture and what the Apostles taught.
Why does God allow suffering?
So that greater good can come through it. But, this is a question that each person must find an answer to in themselves. You must make meaning of your own suffering, or else you cannot overcome it.

God has a plan for your life, and He has allowed you to suffer certain things so that He can bring you toward the perfection He created you to be.
If God supposedly intervenes during car accidents, why doesn’t he intervene for all
He does, and He will, but it is necessary for us to cooperate with His grace. He is not so much concerned about you having a comfortable life here as He is your eternal soul. He wants you to live, move, and have your being in His Spirit.
 
Why is sex before marriage? I don’t seem to see it as a sin worthy of being punished for eternal damnation for it.
 
This is probably where I get lost. I don’t generally think of my eternal soul. I don’t align myself with the American Republican party for various reasons.

I don’t think God intervenes in our freewill.
I think sometimes people lose interest not because God is preventing fornication. Lots of people have sex and they aren’t struck by lightning.

It’s a mystery why people behave the way they do.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top