What's pastoral about Versus Populum?

[po18guy]

Worry, at some level, indicates a wont of faith. Our Lord taught us clearly not to worry. He knows we will, but worry remains useless.

Is not God Almighty presiding over His Church? Has He not cleansed it from past impurities - which were far, far worse than what we see today?

Yes, He has.

“Pray, hope and don’t worry.” - Francesco Forgione, aka St. Padre Pio

An excellent patron for worriers.

 

[MagdalenaRita]

The priest is actually the host at a great banquet.

I agree the priest is the host at a Sacred Banquet though we mustn’t forget that the Mass is a sacrifice, the sacrifice of the Cross.

 

[MagdalenaRita]

I think as Catholics we focus too much on the Mass as a meal. We should remember that the Last Supper, though yes it was the Passover “celebration”, was not a completely happy, joyous time. Jesus was betrayed at the Last Supper. He then went out and suffered agony in the Garden, was arrested and then completed the Sacrifice upon the Cross and that is what is happening at Mass, His complete Sacrifice.

It is a rare occasion I hear a song sung during communion that focuses on the Sacrifice.

 

[phil19034]

I’ll never understand why they didn’t just allow a Tridentine mass to be said in the lingua Franca of the parish and leave it at that.

Because there were a number of ancient prayers from the ancient Mass that had been discovered since the 1800s that TONS of bishops wanted to use. For example, Eucharistic Prayer II.

Ever since before Vatican I, there was a urge among Bishops to reform the mass to make it closer to the ancient mass.

It’s possible that Vatican I would have addresses some of these changes if it wasn’t for the Franco-Prussian War breaking out in 1870, Italian Unification in 1871, and eventually World War I.

 

[OldCAFMember]

Eye contact.

Which in the old rite, is intentionally absent, as even when the priest turns and addresses the people, his eyes are downcast, so as to avoid eye contact. This eliminates the “Was Father looking at me?” syndrome, or “Why does Father always look at her?” scandal. It also helps to ensure that the priest’s personality is submerged by the role of the priest.

 

[OraLabora]

In your diagram makes no sense to me. In the first picture, the priest comes between us and Christ really present on the altar, and on the second diagram, we are all turned towards Christ with no barriers between Christ and ourselves. We are all around Him in worship, priest and faithful.

The crucifix is a red herring. Christ is only symbolically present on the crucifix; it’s an icon, He is truly present on the altar, and all should have their gaze turned towards Him made truly present, and communally.

In any event versus populum isn’t a new invention. It existed (albeit less frequently) before the Council and has a long history in monastic tradition.

It is a rare occasion I hear a song sung during communion that focuses on the Sacrifice.

Given that the vast majority of communion antiphons pre-Council were from psalms and Bible verses, you won’t find “sacrifice” explicitly mentioned very often, if at all, in the Communion propers either. And you will see mention of a “meal” (re: Gustate et Videte, communion antiphon for 15th Sunday in Ordinary time now, or 8th Sunday after Pentecost pre-Council).

 

[tafan2]

No, the communal meal was certainly stressed way too much in the 70s and 80s, alarm bells ringing here also.
I will note that your words " communal meal" do not occur in the Catechism paragraph you quoted. A “sacred banquet in communion with Christ” does, but communal meal seems to intentionally stress communion with each other, as opposed to a communion with Christ.

No lack of catechists here.

 

[PatK63]

Yes, it is both a sacrifice and a banquet.
At the banquet we have to eat the lamb that was slain as is done at the Passover meal.

 

[JohnLilburne]

From Vatican Council II, 1963 Constitution on the Liturgy, Sacrosanctum Concilium:

“124. … When churches are to be built, let great care be taken that they are well suited to celebrating liturgical services and to bringing about the active participation of the faithful.”

From the 1964 Instruction Inter Oecumenici, Chapter V, Designing Churches and Altars to Facilitate Active Participation of the Faithful:

“II MAIN ALTAR

91 . The main altar should preferably be freestanding, to permit walking around it and celebration facing the people.”

Is there better communication by facing towards someone or facing away from someone? The answer is facing towards them. If it were otherwise then people giving speeches would face away from their audience. We would see the back of the heads of news readers on television.

Better communication means better participation of the faithful.

 

[TheMortenBay]

Better communication

Yes, but better communication between whom? I know that Vatican II was all about activating the faithful (and I totally get that), but personally I have an easier time communing with God when not facing the priest.

 

[MagdalenaRita]

Is there better communication by facing towards someone or facing away from someone? The answer is facing towards them. If it were otherwise then people giving speeches would face away from their audience. We would see the back of the heads of news readers on television.

Better communication means better participation of the faithful.

I would agree with this partly. Perhaps when the priest is giving the homily, maybe during the readings and the Gospel too, yes, the priest should face the people because at that point, he is communicating to us, otherwise, at Mass the communication, or prayers, are going on between the priest and the Father, not between us and the priest. We are to be offering our selves in participation of that sacrifice or communication but the sacrifice is being offered to the Father through the priest.

 

[maryjk]

Our priests celebrate ad orientem every Lent.

And I have to say, I feel as though he is on a swivel. Now he is facing the congregation, oops, now toward the crucifix. Okay, now back towards us. And back he goes. I’m almost dizzy watching him flip back and forth.

It is totally distracting to me. And I am very glad when Lent is over and he can go back to what is normal in our parish.

Now, our parish is a very much, say the black, do the red. And from what I’ve seen and read, we don’t add anything that shouldn’t be there. So, I have no problems with the OF.

 

[StephenBales]

I would love that compromise.

I’d love keeping Latin more, but if I got the Tridentine mass at my parish and the only downside was it wasn’t in the ancient language of the saints? Sign me up!!