What's right/wrong about Islam?

[PLAT]

So a while ago I have been watching this:
youtube.com/watch?v=fgsrnmzxEUY

The video notes that the later verses in Quran would superposition the previous verses (to avoid possible contradiction). So according to this video and Quran, Islam cannot be the religion of peace!?

EDIT: Some people even compare Islam to the book of revelation and claim that Islam is the antichrist.

Yet muslims I know are humble, socialable. Does that make them good Muslims or heretics?

Another aspect is that the video mentions Muslims can lie in the name of Islam. Is this true? Because that would possibly mean Quran teaches decieving is acceptable if it is to spread Islam, and the Quran book could be possibly a lie, so Islam is an oxymoron?

I am very confused about how us Catholics, as Christians, should understand Muslims and interact with them. Would the peace-loving or/and knowledgable people guide us?

Thanks.

 

[elwill]

So a while ago I have been watching this:
youtube.com/watch?v=fgsrnmzxEUY

The video notes that the later verses in Quran would superposition the previous verses (to avoid possible contradiction). So according to this video and Quran, Islam cannot be the religion of peace!?

such vedios not represents islam form muslim’s point of view
from this point the confusion arise , you don’t learn the relegion from it’s authentic resources nor from it’s adherence
from our point of view these things are lies about islam

EDIT: Some people even compare Islam to the book of revelation and claim that Islam is the antichrist.

Yet muslims I know are humble, socialable. Does that make them good Muslims or heretics?

offcourse , good muslims

Another aspect is that the video mentions Muslims can lie in the name of Islam. Is this true? Because that would possibly mean Quran teaches decieving is acceptable if it is to spread Islam, and the Quran book could be possibly a lie, so Islam is an oxymoron?

no , this isn’t true offcourse
Like most religions, Islam in general, forbids lying. The Quran says, “Truly Allah guides not one who transgresses and lies.” Surah 40:28.
In the Hadith, Mohammed was also quoted as saying, “Be honest because honesty leads to goodness, and goodness leads to Paradise. Beware of falsehood because it leads to immorality, and immorality leads to Hell.”

 

[PLAT]

But let’s face it. There is a reason why the video is made. There will be Muslims (or claimed to be) who will agree with the video. I mean sometimes youtube is serious, and sometimes riduculous. I mean:

youtube.com/watch?v=KRS1sB5d7vw

youtube.com/watch?v=64V09tTIjR4

But I am sure nothing is totally false here. No source is ever useless in for a historian. So perhaps analysing, agreeing and critisising the evidence of the sources will help?

Then again it would be nice if some professionals are doing it right.

 

[Nine_Two]

such vedios not represents islam form muslim’s point of view
from this point the confusion arise , you don’t learn the relegion from it’s authentic resources nor from it’s adherence
from our point of view these things are lies about islam

But Muslims do believe later verses should be taken in place of earlier, do they not? And some of the last were also some of the most violent, were they not?

no , this isn’t true offcourse
Like most religions, Islam in general, forbids lying. The Quran says, “Truly Allah guides not one who transgresses and lies.” Surah 40:28.
In the Hadith, Mohammed was also quoted as saying, “Be honest because honesty leads to goodness, and goodness leads to Paradise. Beware of falsehood because it leads to immorality, and immorality leads to Hell.”

I think you do Islam a disservice with this answer. At least some Imams do, and they have their own hadiths, and being outside the Muslim community, we can never tell how prevailent those views are. A blanket denial contradicts what we already know and puts your answer into disrepute.
It would be like if you said “Christians believe that all true believers will be made rich by God.” This is true for a small number so my answer should reflect it, otherwise it sounds like a denial.

 

[agent_grey]

The problem with islam is the same as the proterstant view. They have substituted the word of God for a book. They have gone one step further and flat out denied redemption.

 

[Sister_Amy]

I’m in a very intense Qur’an/Arabic program right now, so hopefully you’ll take this post with some amount of credibility on the subject.

My teacher has talked about this problem of some Muslims who try to abrogate part of the Qur’an. Basically they divide up the period of Qur’anic revelation, which was parallel to the life of Muhammad (pbuh), into two parts: the Makkan part, which was the first 13 years while Muslims were persecuted and tortured in Makkah, and then the Madinan part, which was the next 10 years when Muslims migrated to Madinah and came to power in the Arabian peninsula. And then what they do is argue that since the Muslims moved to Madinah, the previous model, including the life of the Messenger (pbuh), the Qur’an revealed then, is no longer applicable. And it’s a huge mistake–they ignore most of the Qur’an and it’s a real shame.

A more correct view to take is that there are two models there, and that the first one is a model for how Muslims should behave when they are not in a position of power–i.e., they aren’t running their own government. And the rest is how they should deal when they are not in power.

And the reality of the world today for Muslims is that they aren’t in power anywhere. Even in the Muslim countries, they’re being ruled by corrupt politicians, and are actually extremely suppressed in terms of education about the religion. So the part of the Qur’an that some folks want to ignore totally–that’s the part that needs to be applied today.

Now of course, that doesn’t imply going back on the Islamic law, or negating laws from the Madinan period. But as for a social model, as a model for teaching about Islam, about being good to families, neighbors, the poor, a model for being patient under torture and persecution–that’s all Makkan and it absolutely applies.

And it’s not true at all that Muslims can lie in the name of Islam. That’s an unfortunate but clever attack against all mainstream Muslims–so when we say something normal and sane, we get told that we’re just saying what you want to hear. Because Islam is sane. But some people only listen to the crazies and what do they say but craziness?

 

[Nine_Two]

And it’s not true at all that Muslims can lie in the name of Islam. That’s an unfortunate but clever attack against all mainstream Muslims–so when we say something normal and sane, we get told that we’re just saying what you want to hear. Because Islam is sane. But some people only listen to the crazies and what do they say but craziness?

The first hit on my first try at a google search disagrees that Taqiyya is a myth. It’s a Muslim apologetics blog, by the way.
answeringmuslims.com/2009/03/taqiyya-does-islam-promote-deception.html

So the question is, is this a case of taqiyya, or do you simply not realize that some imams teach that?

 

[Sister_Amy]

The first hit on my first try at a google search disagrees that Taqiyya is a myth. It’s a Muslim apologetics blog, by the way.
answeringmuslims.com/2009/03/taqiyya-does-islam-promote-deception.html

So the question is, is this a case of taqiyya, or do you simply not realize that some imams teach that?

Huh? It’s a site attacking Islam and Muslims and you’re surprised that it calls Muslims liars? Which happens to be an outright lie and total distortion of the so-called proof. Lying is a big, big, condemnable sin in Islam.

 

[Nine_Two]

Huh? It’s a site attacking Islam and Muslims and you’re surprised that it calls Muslims liars? Which happens to be an outright lie and total distortion of the so-called proof. Lying is a big, big, condemnable sin in Islam.

So what do you say to the verses it brings up? I’m under the impression that Sahih hadith are considered pretty reliable, plus it quotes the koran.

 

[Sister_Amy]

Okay, let’s look at what he quotes:

“Let not the believers Take for friends or helpers Unbelievers rather than believers: if any do that, in nothing will there be help from Allah: except by way of precaution, that ye may Guard yourselves from them.”

Let’s look at another translation, just to be sure we understand the ayah:

“Let not believers take disbelievers as** allies **rather than believers. And whoever [of you] does that has nothing with Allah , except when taking precaution against them in prudence. And Allah warns you of Himself, and to Allah is the [final] destination.”

What he says about the ayah is that it supposedly “implies” deception to feign friendship. This ayah isn’t talking about being friends–let’s hang out and go bowling friends. It’s talking about allies in war. And it’s telling the Muslims (i.e., a Muslim state, government) not to become allies with non-Muslims against Muslims.

And then it gives an exception–in the case that Muslims fear for themselves, which would only happen in a state of weakness. What it doesn’t say is that it’s okay to lie about Islam. It does say that when you’re stuck between a rock and a hard place, Allah knows your intent.

The idea of being deceitful about Islam in the first place, however, does not come in to play here.

Then he quotes a hadith: “He who makes peace between the people by inventing good information or saying good things, is not a liar.”

Which frankly I don’t see how it relates to the subject at all. Basically this is talking about a person trying to broker a peace agreement with flattery, or a man trying to compliment his wife. I don’t know how anyone, by any stretch of the imagination, could conclude it makes lying permissible when lying is so expressly forbidden. It’s talking about specific cases here, and certainly not lying about Islam.

And the third case is a matter of war. “War is deception,” according to Sun Tzu anyway. Actually the first part was about war too.

I think this is extremely logical and looks at different situations differently. For instance, a man complimenting his wife (even though he’s not fully sincere,) or telling one ambassador that the other one really respects him (seriously–you know why they always need a “third party” to broker peace agreements?) is not the same as saying that the Qur’an teaches one thing when it doesn’t. I don’t know how anyone could put these in the same category.

And thinking that this is problematic only stems from, in my opinion, an immature view of the world, and not understanding reality.

But anyway, one of the comments to that post pointed out that the root of the word is similar to some other words, but the word actually means protecting oneself from fear. It’s the same way Muslims are supposed to feel/act toward Allah, to have taqwah, a fear which causes them to protect themselves from His wrath. Just like you try to protect yourself from getting wet in a rainstorm, hitting a child in the street, or (prophetic example) not getting your clothes snagged on bushes when you’re walking on a not very clear path. Taqwah.

If Islam really teaches this lying thing, then why don’t you ever find Muslims teaching other Muslims to do it? You only find non-Muslims pulling out weird random quotes and saying that Islam teaches this, and the Muslims are just baffled, like huh? Never heard of it.

Complete disconnect. But anyway. Fingers in ears.

 

[MarianD]

The first hit on my first try at a google search disagrees that Taqiyya is a myth. It’s a Muslim apologetics blog, by the way.
answeringmuslims.com/2009/03/taqiyya-does-islam-promote-deception.html

So the question is, is this a case of taqiyya, or do you simply not realize that some imams teach that?

I’m not even trying to get in on this discussion, but I’d just like to add that Taqiyyah is a Shia concept, not a Sunni concept.

Seeing as to how 90% of Muslims are Sunni, arguing about Taqiyyah won’t really do any good.

 

[Sister_Amy]

I’m not even trying to get in on this discussion, but I’d just like to add that Taqiyyah is a Shia concept, not a Sunni concept.

Seeing as to how 90% of Muslims are Sunni, arguing about Taqiyyah won’t really do any good.

Thank you.

 

[Nine_Two]

Okay, let’s look at what he quotes:

“Let not the believers Take for friends or helpers Unbelievers rather than believers: if any do that, in nothing will there be help from Allah: except by way of precaution, that ye may Guard yourselves from them.”

Let’s look at another translation, just to be sure we understand the ayah:

“Let not believers take disbelievers as** allies **rather than believers. And whoever [of you] does that has nothing with Allah , except when taking precaution against them in prudence. And Allah warns you of Himself, and to Allah is the [final] destination.”

What he says about the ayah is that it supposedly “implies” deception to feign friendship. This ayah isn’t talking about being friends–let’s hang out and go bowling friends. It’s talking about allies in war. And it’s telling the Muslims (i.e., a Muslim state, government) not to become allies with non-Muslims against Muslims.

And then it gives an exception–in the case that Muslims fear for themselves, which would only happen in a state of weakness. What it doesn’t say is that it’s okay to lie about Islam. It does say that when you’re stuck between a rock and a hard place, Allah knows your intent.

The idea of being deceitful about Islam in the first place, however, does not come in to play here.

Then he quotes a hadith: “He who makes peace between the people by inventing good information or saying good things, is not a liar.”

Which frankly I don’t see how it relates to the subject at all. Basically this is talking about a person trying to broker a peace agreement with flattery, or a man trying to compliment his wife. I don’t know how anyone, by any stretch of the imagination, could conclude it makes lying permissible when lying is so expressly forbidden. It’s talking about specific cases here, and certainly not lying about Islam.

And the third case is a matter of war. “War is deception,” according to Sun Tzu anyway. Actually the first part was about war too.

I think this is extremely logical and looks at different situations differently. For instance, a man complimenting his wife (even though he’s not fully sincere,) or telling one ambassador that the other one really respects him (seriously–you know why they always need a “third party” to broker peace agreements?) is not the same as saying that the Qur’an teaches one thing when it doesn’t. I don’t know how anyone could put these in the same category.

And thinking that this is problematic only stems from, in my opinion, an immature view of the world, and not understanding reality.

But anyway, one of the comments to that post pointed out that the root of the word is similar to some other words, but the word actually means protecting oneself from fear. It’s the same way Muslims are supposed to feel/act toward Allah, to have taqwah, a fear which causes them to protect themselves from His wrath. Just like you try to protect yourself from getting wet in a rainstorm, hitting a child in the street, or (prophetic example) not getting your clothes snagged on bushes when you’re walking on a not very clear path. Taqwah.

If Islam really teaches this lying thing, then why don’t you ever find Muslims teaching other Muslims to do it? You only find non-Muslims pulling out weird random quotes and saying that Islam teaches this, and the Muslims are just baffled, like huh? Never heard of it.

Complete disconnect. But anyway. Fingers in ears.

Ok, so people can’t lie “in the name of Islam” but lying is morally justified in certain situations, is that what you’re saying?

 

[Nine_Two]

I’m not even trying to get in on this discussion, but I’d just like to add that Taqiyyah is a Shia concept, not a Sunni concept.

Seeing as to how 90% of Muslims are Sunni, arguing about Taqiyyah won’t really do any good.

My argument was against the blanket statement that it is not taught. You say here that it is taught in certain sectors of Islam, which was what I said. Had the original response to the OP said this, I would never have made the post.

 

[PLAT]

I have a feeling you guys are not tackling the problem directly. Hardly anyone of you made an actual decoding to any of the videos I mentioned (well, not the second one, that’s just some American’s stupidity). Those cannot be all rubbish, as I have mentioned already.

 

[athair_siochain]

So a while ago I have been watching this:
youtube.com/watch?v=fgsrnmzxEUY

The video notes that the later verses in Quran would superposition the previous verses (to avoid possible contradiction). So according to this video and Quran, Islam cannot be the religion of peace!?

EDIT: Some people even compare Islam to the book of revelation and claim that Islam is the antichrist.

Yet muslims I know are humble, socialable. Does that make them good Muslims or heretic

Another aspect is that the video mentions Muslims can lie in the name of Islam. Is this true? Because that would possibly mean Quran teaches decieving is acceptable if it is to spread Islam, and the Quran book could be possibly a lie, so Islam is an oxymoron?

I am very confused about how us Catholics, as Christians, should understand Muslims and interact with them. Would the peace-loving or/and knowledgable people guide us?

Thanks.

One thread closes another opens,
the majority of videos on you-tube that promote the hatred of Muslims are made by Zionists , you should visit one of the New York Zionist Blogs, just to see how hatred is being fostered,

 

[PLAT]

One thread closes another opens,
the majority of videos on you-tube that promote the hatred of Muslims are made by Zionists , you should visit one of the New York Zionist Blogs, just to see how hatred is being fostered,

Still, if you fully tackle the problem, then you should pin every limb of the opponent to the ground. What I mean is, your discussions went offtopic. Seriously. Deal with this before something else.

 

[Sam_777]

The abrogating and abrogated verses in Quran:
The peaceful verses during Mecca time (prior to Madina immigration) have been replaced by the jihad verses during Madina time, one example for abrogating and abrogated verses in Quran is the wine, in the beginning the instructions was not to pray while drunk, later on a verse revealed which made wine prohibited at all times.

Taqiyya (permissible lying) in Islam:
Taqiyya is allowed in Islam (for both Sunnies and Shiats), per authentic hadith by Muhammed:

Sahih Muslim, Book 32, Number 6303:
“…she heard Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: A liar is not one who tries to bring reconciliation amongst people and speaks good (in order to avert dispute), or he conveys good. Ibn Shihab said he did not hear that exemption was granted in anything what the people speak as lie but in three cases: in battle, for bringing reconciliation amongst persons and the narration of the words of the husband to his wife, and the narration of the words of a wife to her husband (in a twisted form in order to bring reconciliation between them).”
(E)

صحيح مسلم
أنها سمعت رسول الله ‏ ‏صلى الله عليه وسلم ‏ ‏وهو يقول ‏ ‏ليس الكذاب الذي يصلح بين الناس ويقول خيرا ‏ ‏وينمي خيرا ‏قال ‏ ‏ابن شهاب ‏ ‏ولم أسمع يرخص في شيء مما يقول الناس كذب إلا في ثلاث الحرب والإصلاح بين الناس وحديث الرجل امرأته وحديث المرأة زوجها
(A)
​

 

[GaryTaylor]

We all live in Gods World…Period. Regardless of your Religious preferrence.

The Law of Life is simple. WE either learn to understand it and work in harmony to overcome world destruction or we ALL SUFFER!

Its a world of Good and Evil is what it is. A War of Souls. Until we all collectively figure out the correct path together, I suggest we try not to destroy the only world we have.

May God have Mercy on all of us.

 

[athair_siochain]

We all live in Gods World…Period. Regardless of your Religious preferrence.

The Law of Life is simple. WE either learn to understand it and work in harmony to overcome world destruction or we ALL SUFFER!

Its a world of Good and Evil is what it is. A War of Souls. Until we all collectively figure out the correct path together, I suggest we try not to destroy the only world we have.

May God have Mercy on all of us.

So true, the hard part is we all travel a crooked road and the signposts directing us.are all covered with graffiti,