What's so difficult for the poor to move up to middle-class?

[Swiss_Guy]

Note- there are also lazy rich people, and lazy middle class people. The difference is, I think, that often they have a parent or other relative enabling them to stay in that class.

The difference is people want an excuse for not helping the poor in any way shape or form.

 

[Swiss_Guy]

Who says that class differences are necessarily a bad thing? Sure it’s not good for people to live in complete squalor and starve to death, but if you read the economic works of Leo XIII he argues for there to be different classes of people in society and the cooperation–and not warfare a la Marx–between them in order for society to function and be prosperous.

-ACEGC

Yes, but that doesn’t mean a large middle class isn’t something to strive for.

1. In view of the rapid expansion of national economies, particularly since the war, there is one very important social principle to which We would draw your attention. It is this: Economic progress must be accompanied by a corresponding social progress, so that all classes of citizens can participate in the increased productivity. The utmost vigilance and effort is needed to ensure that social inequalities, so far from increasing, are reduced to a minimum.

Mater et Magistra

 

[SamH]

Note- there are also lazy rich people, and lazy middle class people. The difference is, I think, that often they have a parent or other relative enabling them to stay in that class.

Actually there are four basic steps to move to middle class from poverty.

1. Graduate from highschool with decent grades.
2. Don’t get married before age 20, stay married after you get married.
3. Don’t have children out of wedlock.
4. Stay off drugs

If you can accomplish those 4 basic steps and are of fair general health you will most assuredly become solid middle class. I’m 45 years old and have never met a person that did those 4 things that didn’t have a “middle class” life style.

 

[SamH]

The difference is people want an excuse for not helping the poor in any way shape or form.

That’s why social programs like welfare were developed.

 

[Swiss_Guy]

That’s why social programs like welfare were developed.

Sorta.

 

[DarkLight]

Actually there are four basic steps to move to middle class from poverty.

1. Graduate from highschool with decent grades.
2. Don’t get married before age 20, stay married after you get married.
3. Don’t have children out of wedlock.
4. Stay off drugs

If you can accomplish those 4 basic steps and are of fair general health you will most assuredly become solid middle class. I’m 45 years old and have never met a person that did those 4 things that didn’t have a “middle class” life style.

Many of the people I knew that were working at walmart followed all this advice. Some even had college degrees. A lot of them couldn’t even make it to full time to where they could get full benefits.

 

[SamH]

Many of the people I knew that were working at walmart followed all this advice. Some even had college degrees. A lot of them couldn’t even make it to full time to where they could get full benefits.

All four steps?

Are you sure?

Just because they don’t tell you about the child they are paying or through payroll deduction doesn’t mean he doesn’t exist.

 

[yukonbrad]

Actually there are four basic steps to move to middle class from poverty.

1. Graduate from highschool with decent grades.
2. Don’t get married before age 20, stay married after you get married.
3. Don’t have children out of wedlock.
4. Stay off drugs

If you can accomplish those 4 basic steps and are of fair general health you will most assuredly become solid middle class. I’m 45 years old and have never met a person that did those 4 things that didn’t have a “middle class” life style.

You think its that easy? You have stated you have never been poor so I’ll excuse your ignorance. Lets see, I worked hard all my life went to college (graduated magna cum laude), had a good job didn’t marry at an early age nor have children and have never done drugs. Guess what I was homless for over a year and still consider myself poor despite working (but not in a well paying job).

Its easy to make excuses - they are lazy or why don’t they get an education (if they are poor where do they get the money to go to school) to abrogate our responsibilities for our brothers and sisters.

 

[DarkLight]

All four steps?

Are you sure?

Just because they don’t tell you about the child they are paying or through payroll deduction doesn’t mean he doesn’t exist.

Assuming they were not all actively lying to me, yes.

And I saw how much I took home each week. I was averaging maybe $900 a month. Cheap rent is $300 plus utilities, which might be another $100 at the low end. Say another $100 for groceries - you can do it if you’re single and willing to live off cheap hot dogs. Public transportation was almost non-existent, as was close housing, so you have to pay gas, which I think ended up being another $100. We’re already up to $600 out of $900 a month. This isn’t counting car payments, clothing, medical bills, insurance deductions, and so on, and is assuming a single person with no kids. If you’re married and have kids you have to either have someone stay home and watch them or pay for childcare.

 

[SamH]

You think its that easy? You have stated you have never been poor so I’ll excuse your ignorance. Lets see, I worked hard all my life went to college (graduated magna cum laude), had a good job didn’t marry at an early age nor have children and have never done drugs. Guess what I was homless for over a year and still consider myself poor despite working (but not in a well paying job).

As long as we are excusing ignorance I’ll extend the same courtesy to you.

Where exactly have I stated I have never been poor?

I’m the 9th of 12 children born to a share cropper that only attended school to 8th grade. I worked a full time job (lying about my age) while in high school to feed the family the share cropper left behind after he died. I worked 50 to 80 hrs a week on a job “that Americans won’t do” while attending college and still supporting my widowed mother.

Yeah – I know nothing about being poor, or hungry or having to struggle to put food on the table.

As for our responsibilities for our brothers and sisters - I worked ****ed hard to fulfill mine. Perhaps you should direct your ire at our multimillionaire president - ask him how he takes care of his brothers and sisters.

 

[SamH]

Assuming they were not all actively lying to me, yes.

And I saw how much I** took home each week. I was averaging maybe $900 a month. Cheap rent is $300 plus utilities, which might be another $100 at the low end. Say another $100 for groceries - you can do it if you’re single and willing to live off cheap hot dogs. Public transportation was almost non-existent, as was close housing, so you have to pay gas, which I think ended up **being another $100. We’re already up to $600 out of $900 a month. This isn’t counting car payments, clothing, medical bills, insurance deductions, and so on, and is assuming a single person with no kids. If you’re married and have kids you have to either have someone stay home and watch them or pay for childcare.

I’m, assuming you are now “beyond” that? Considering you refer to your struggles in past tense. So apparently your own life is proof of what I stated?

If you are poor you don’t start out middle class. You work your way up to it. I didn’t consider myself “middle class” until 10 years after I graduated from college. My first “professional” job after college paid a LOT less than the job I had in college (cutting up cows). In fact it took over 4 years before I earned as much as I could have earned had I simply stayed at my college job. But 10 years later I was earning twice what I would have made staying with my old job.

 

[SamH]

Its easy to make excuses - they are lazy or why don’t they get an education (if they are poor where do they get the money to go to school) to abrogate our responsibilities for our brothers and sisters.

That part I agree with - excuses are easy - life is hard.

 

[DarkLight]

I’m, assuming you are now “beyond” that? Considering you refer to your struggles in past tense. So apparently your own life is proof of what I stated?

If you are poor you don’t start out middle class. You work your way up to it. I didn’t consider myself “middle class” until 10 years after I graduated from college. My first “professional” job after college paid a LOT less than the job I had in college (cutting up cows). In fact it took over 4 years before I earned as much as I could have earned had I simply stayed at my college job. But 10 years later I was earning twice what I would have made staying with my old job.

I was a kid working at walmart while I lived at home with my parents. I was paying gas and helping out with the grocery bill, but that was the extent of my expenses. My parents also paid for me to go to college and helped me pay the fees to get into graduate school. Unfortunately my situation seemed to be rare - most of my coworkers were adults trying to get along on that paycheck.

 

[Robert_Sock]

Do the poor have an attitude problem? I suspect many do.

 

[Matilda_Bennett]

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[Agatha813]

There’s honestly so many factors that I can’t name them all. It’s something that’s not impossible, but hard for them for various reasons. You can say family and what they were raised with are big contributors. If you’re raised to believe you can’t do any better, or never be able to educate yourself properly because you’re busy taking care of your family, that’ll negatively impact you for the rest of your life.

Of course, this goes far deeper than the family, but I would say they can contribute greatly on how you make a living.

 

[Robert_Sock]

I believe we are headed to a two-class society and all the poor will eventually become middle class.

You really don’t need much much money to grow spiritually.

 

[TypesAndShadows]

From Rerum Novarum of Leo XIII:

vatican.va/holy_father/leo_xiii/encyclicals/documents/hf_l-xiii_enc_15051891_rerum-novarum_en.html

-ACEGC

I think some of this discussion about class from a Catholic viewpoint is suffering because Rerum Novarum isn’t using the common modern American definition of “working class”. Working class doesn’t necessarily mean poor, and in a truly Christian country shouldn’t. The poor you will always have with you, but the workers should be earning a living wage. Of course a society needs workers, and not everyone can be rich, but that doesn’t mean the workers need to live in poverty.

As to the schools not teaching children to read, that is probably a combination of the school system and the basic fact that if you take malnourished children living in noisy, often mouldy conditions, where nobody they know ever reads and they never see books or magazines outside school, and nobody reinforces their learning at home, and they don’t even recognise any of the alphabet or play rhyming and starts-with games before they start school, then learning to read is a very difficult task with little apparent reward to motivate them. They don’t even have the experience of enjoying a storybook to motivate them to want to read a book of their own.

And it is difficult for anyone at home to provide that support if they aren’t confident with their own reading, and don’t have a culture of doing all these little things.

Also, in my experience lots of children who struggle to read produce ‘reasons’ why they won’t ever need to, because someone will do it for them. It’s a coping mechanism, and not restricted to whether this is a realistic option. Solidly middle-class children pull it too, for a few weeks.

 

[HumanCentipede]

They’re just lazy because they don’t want to work. All poor people are often foreign and immigrants anyway, like black people.

 

[Swiss_Guy]

I believe we are headed to a two-class society and all the poor will eventually become middle class.

You really don’t need much much money to grow spiritually.

So what’s the other class: Middle class and ________

I think we are heading toward a society with a greater distinction between the upper and lower middle classes, but that’s it.