What's so great about the Tridentine Mass?

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For those who have the time to read it, the Latin Mass Society has written a five-part series on the death of the reform of the reform. It is presented in reverse order starting with the dismantling of the Old Rite starting in 1965. It provides a little history and may explain quite a few things, such as verbal vs non-verbal levels of participation, for everyone.

lmschairman.org/search/label/Death%20of%20the%20Reform%20of%20the%20Reform
 
Fair enough. What I’d really like to know is what religious beliefs are different between the two……or is just preference? If preference, that’s an understandable answer. We all have our preferences, but if one asserts that his or her preference is because of some deep theological difference, then I’d like an explanation of that difference for my own benefit. What I don’t think is fair is for someone to assert their preference as fact or superior with no facts to support it.

Maybe “guilty” is a poor choice of wording, but I did not mean it as something one should necessarily feel shame about, but as in the sense of “I’m guilty of preferring pizza over salad” 😉
I understand, and it is okay. I will try to explain as best I can. Both the EF and OF are valid forms of the Mass, and there is no difference in religious belief between the two. In that sense, it is strictly a matter of individual preference. And the reason it is a matter of individual preference is that there really are differences between the OF and the EF Mass, the most obvious one of course that the OF Mass is most often said in the vernacular and the EF Mass is always said in Latin.

There are other differences. In a word, many feel that the EF Mass is more sacred. The atmosphere of the EF Mass, much quieter and more conducive to silent prayer and contemplation, is true to very long traditions of the Catholic faith. The OF Mass, on the other hand, is more open to the world, with singing, verbal responses and the shaking of hands and so on. There is often talking prior to the beginning of Mass, a time once reserved for silent prayer. Instead of facing the Crucifix on the high altar, the priest stands behind an altar table and faces the congregation. Many believe this allows the congregation to become more fully engaged in the service, while others would say this should not be the point at all–that engagement should be on an interior and spiritual rather than on what they perceive as a temporal or worldly level. There is something of a fault line here, and it is a point of contention.

Vatican II was an ecumenical council, and without doubt the OF Mass represented an attempt at ecumenism. However, many feel it is closer to a Protestant service. While that may be neither here nor there, many did not like this change while others readily accepted it. But this has had the result of introducing a difference that had not been present before, and it persists to this day. It is at times contentious. For this, Vatican II is often criticized.

Why I personally prefer the EF Mass is no doubt a result of having been raised in the pre-Vatican II Church. We attended a Tridentine Mass before every single school day. By the later years of elementary school, there was for us nothing mysterious about the Tridentine Mass or its Latin language. We had by then attended many hundreds of Tridentine Masses, and maybe several thousand by the time we graduated from high school. It was all we had ever known of the Catholic Mass. It is probably helpful to know that a number of people on this subforum share this background and also to realize Vatican II represented a sea change for the Church.

In this sense, I don’t even feel that for me the term ‘traditional Catholic’ is really altogether correct. From my perspective, this is Catholicism. But I am nevertheless happy enough to attend an OF Mass and do so regularly, knowing very well it is a valid Mass. I just don’t know why some who are new to EF Mass might feel the way you have described.

I hope this will help in your understanding of the issue. 🙂
 
Thank you! Yes, it appears I did :sad_yes:
Just a heads up if you prefer the new mass, you may wish to refrain from posting in the Traditional Catholicism forum in the future. If you have questions about the mass or the sacraments, the Liturgy and Sacraments forum is a good choice. 🙂
 
Just a heads up if you prefer the new mass, you may wish to refrain from posting in the Traditional Catholicism forum in the future. If you have questions about the mass or the sacraments, the Liturgy and Sacraments forum is a good choice. 🙂
Please read the subtitle of the forum. This is a forum for discussing Catholic traditions and customs. It is not a forum for “Traditional” Catholics. It is not a forum to discuss only the EF or promote it, or compare it to the OF. The moderator has tried to make this clear, but people are not getting the message. Anybody, whether they prefer the OF or the EF is welcome to post and ask questions and discuss Catholic customs and traditions. We are all just Catholics.
 
For those who have the time to read it, the Latin Mass Society has written a five-part series on the death of the reform of the reform. It is presented in reverse order starting with the dismantling of the Old Rite starting in 1965. It provides a little history and may explain quite a few things, such as verbal vs non-verbal levels of participation, for everyone.

lmschairman.org/search/label/Death%20of%20the%20Reform%20of%20the%20Reform
Thanks for posting the LMS series. I’d not ever seen it before, and it’s very informative. I read through part five - and half of part four - today. Looking forward to reading the rest of the series.
 
What’s so great about the Ordinary Form of the Mass?

It is the Mass. Holy Mother Church, led by the Vicar of Christ on earth, His Holiness Pope Paul VI, and under the guidance of the Holy Spirit, has provided it for us.

Repeating: IT IS THE MASS.

The Extraordinary Form is also the Mass. Holy Mother Church, led by the Vicar of Christ on earth, His Holiness Pope Benedict XVI, and under the guidance of the Holy Spirit, has provided it for us.

Both Forms are the Mass. Period.
I find it laughable how you attributes the new mass to Paul VI and the old Mass to Benedict? Laughable in the sense that the novus ordo definitely is a creation of Paul VI… yes yes, with the “Holy Spirit”… but I would ammend that Benedict had anything to do with the Trudentine Mass. I would even argue that permission was never needed since it was never abrogated. Benedict actually says this himself.

Pax
 
I find it laughable how you attributes the new mass to Paul VI and the old Mass to Benedict? Laughable in the sense that the novus ordo definitely is a creation of Paul VI… yes yes, with the “Holy Spirit”… but I would ammend that Benedict had anything to do with the Trudentine Mass. I would even argue that permission was never needed since it was never abrogated. Benedict actually says this himself.

Pax
Fair enough. The Tridentine Mass was provided to us by His Holiness, Pope Saint Pius V. However, I would point out that His Holiness, Pope Benedict XVI, certainly has had much to do with the Tridentine Mass by promoting its use through Summorum Pontificum.

I find it curious why you used quotation marks when you referenced the Holy Spirit. Do you always use quotation marks when referencing any of the persons of the Godhead? Do you write it as “Father” and “Son”?
 
Fair enough. The Tridentine Mass was provided to us by His Holiness, Pope Saint Pius V.
Actually there is no such thing as the Tridentine Mass. Trent did not promote one liturgy. True, there was a standard missal to be used in the Latin Rite but that as well as other ancient liturgies were what Quo Primum was about. The EF as we know it goes back much further than that and it would be recognizable in today’s Latin form by many in the 6th or 7th centuries if not earlier.
 
Actually there is no such thing as the Tridentine Mass. Trent did not promote one liturgy. True, there was a standard missal to be used in the Latin Rite but that as well as other ancient liturgies were what Quo Primum was about. The EF as we know it goes back much further than that and it would be recognizable in today’s Latin form by many in the 6th or 7th centuries if not earlier.
You are quite right.

No “new” Mass was created by Pope St. Pius V or the Council of Trent.

The old Mass goes back almost to the beginning.
 
I started attending an FSSP parish about 6 months ago. I love it. To be completely honest, I couldn’t stand the profaning of the host any longer by “Eucharistic ministers” and parishioners, which prompted me to look into the extraordinary form. Finding consecrated hosts underneath pews, watching people drop it, watching kids take it back to their seats and breaking it apart. Why is it so difficult to ensure someone takes communion while they’re standing in front of you? Also, the “sign of peace” before taking communion. I always dreaded it. And I’m not socially awkward or anti social. It is not necessary, and at the priests discretion. The priest already reconciles us during the mass. Why must I give a sign of peace to someone I don’t know or whom I have no quarrel with? Yes, we are to reconcile ourselves before receiving, I get that, but not in that fashion! It’s simply ridiculous, and I feel like an evangelical again. These things led me to the latin mass, which for many other reasons as well, I now have a new found appreciation for. I tried attending the ordinary form recently, and it just doesn’t do it for me anymore. And to me, the latin is what truly makes the Catholic Church, catholic. Whether youre in america or in Vietnam, you can be certain that the mass will be the same, and this truly makes the church universal I believe.
 
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