Well said!
Bran Stark;10451987 said:
Why would you call God, the Father a bachelor? Or, are you quoting someone else?So Christ has the Church as His bride, and the Holy Spirit has Mary, but the Father is a bachelor? How awkward.
Non-Catholics agree that all Christians are called to imitate Jesus for He is the Way, the Truth, and Life, just as all Christians are called to love what Jesus loves and hate what Jesus hates e.g. sin. If Jesus loves and honors His mother then all Christians should love and honor Mary. Moreover, if Jesus is our spiritual brother, as per the Bible, then Mary the spiritual mother to all Christians, regardless of denomination.
This is an area where you have a 99% chance of failure.I would accept that they are sincerely concerned and thank them for those concerns but to continue if you do feel it is an appropriate way to pray. You will defend your faith by they way you conduct yourself and , hopefully, it will show in a closer connection to our God.
Hey Doxiemom.
As a former non-Catholic those things never bothered me as I became more familiar with the teachings of the CC. If Jesus, for example is the King of kings then logically His mother is the queen mother of the King of kings. Prior to 200 AD the ECF Irenaeus rightfully referred to Mary as the"cause of our salvation" due to her “fiat.” Jesus’ name, as you know, means salvation. Only in that sense, (including Mary’s prayers) is Mary considered co-redemptrix. Only Jesus died on the cross and redeemed the world! Therefore, I am not sure what the big deal is. 
Mary was a creature like the rest of us and she too needed a redeemer, namely, Jesus, and in no way does the title, co-redemptrix imply that Mary participated equally in the redemption of the human race. I wouldn’t be a catholic if the CC taught that; sadly, I have many protestant friends who believe such silliness even after I discuss the matter with them. Heck, I am still told by certain family members that I worship Mary. :shrug:As per the bible we are all co-heirs, co-mediators, called to pick up our cross and suffer with Jesus for the salvation of souls. We are all called to participate in Jesus’ redemptive work on the cross, as per scripture. Perhaps you could say a little more about the kneeling part for the simple fact that it kind of implies that Catholics worship Mary, something I can tell you do not believe? Jesus of course, is the only mediator in terms of being God! However we are all called, as part of the royal priesthood to mediate just as the ministerial priests were/are told to mediate: “All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation.”Good advice!
kneeling down in front of any statue in prayer or adoration is seen as idol worship. They will say you are breaking a commandment. As a catholic you can understand the importance given to breaking commandments.Hey Doxiemom.
*Now if we are children, then we are heirs–heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory.
Now I rejoice in what was suffered for you, and I fill up in my flesh what is still lacking in regard to Christ’s afflictions, for the sake of his body, which is the church.
*
Good advice!
I don’t think this miracle, or any miracle, is “necessary”. Neither Our Lady’s request nor Our Lord’s personality required it. God freely chooses to either perform miracles or to not perform them, depending solely upon His own sovereign will. He may take into account the requests of His creatures in determining this will, but He is never obliged to accede to them.
We all share the same one, I fear.
Oh I quite agree, He did do it because of her. There’s no controversy here. The question is if He was pleased about it, as you say.
I was just pointing out that if we’re going to say that the Second and Third Persons of the Most Holy Trinity have spouses, then we have to wonder why the First Person does not have one as well. Of course the Mormons believe that the Father does indeed have a spouse, but since they don’t think the Most Holy Trinity even exists, their opinions are of limited value to orthodox theology.
One thing you must understand is that it is a cultural difference mainly. Catholicism created European culture, and Protestantism created American culture. Americans are so devoid of their christian roots its not funny. I understand that kneeling before a statue looks like idolatry to someone who is not used to it. But has anyone looked at a picture of Jesus while praying? No difference. For the vast majority of Christianity there were no pictures. Even paintings have only been around for a few hundred years. People made statues to remind themselves of events and people for most of Christianity. As far as breaking a commandment by kneeling before a statue, we are freed from the law and the law is written on our hearts. So it’s what is in our hearts that matters. If a person kneels before a statue and prays, but is not worshiping the statue in there mind and heart, then the person is no longer guilty of idolatry simply for kneeling before a statue regardless of what other people think.
Do you really believe that Jesus would PUBLICLY rebuke his mother, and PUBLICLY humiliate her. Would that not be breaking a commandment (honor thy mother and father) and therefore be a sin? Even if it wasn’t done publicly rebuking his mother would be a sin.
a bit off subject but when Jesus publicly referred to His mother as Woman, He was acknowledgeing her as the Woman who fulfilled the prophecy that Messiah would be born of a woman.
absolutely. that post was directed at branstark, Who clearly doesnt agree with that
Branstark
I don’t think it was done very publicly. And the Commandment doesn’t mean that it’s always forbidden to criticize parents, at all times and in all places. I think Christ’s rebuke to His mother is a perfect example of respectful criticism. Chrysostom says very plainly that “Where parents cause no impediment or hindrance in things belonging to God, it is our bounden duty to give way to them, and there is great danger in not doing so; but when they require anything unseasonably, and cause hindrance in any spiritual matter, it is unsafe to obey.” And for a more modern reference, see the Catechism of the Catholic Church:* “Children should also obey the reasonable directions of their teachers and all to whom their parents have entrusted them. But if a child is convinced in conscience that it would be morally wrong to obey a particular order, he must not do so.”*
Clearly? I don’t know why you think you can read my mind so confidently. Of course the Messiah was to be born of a woman, why should I dispute that? It may well be that Our Lord was referring to it when He called His mother “woman”. I think that the allegorical view of Mary as the Second Eve is quite admirable, in fact. Even a Protestant as anti-Catholic as John Milton could accept this:
I am quite familiar with those references, actually. But it was my understanding that, since the Church is the New Israel, the relationship between God and Israel would be the same as that between God and the Church. I have never heard of any teaching that the Father divorced the Covenant People of God and handed them over to the Son when the Incarnation happened. So it seems to me that the Spouse of Israel during the Old Testament would be Christ Himself, as per St. Paul*: “All our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; and were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; and did all eat the same spiritual meat; and did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ” * (I Corinthians 10: 1-4).
And for a more modern reference, see the Catechism of the Catholic Church:* “Children should also obey the reasonable directions of their teachers and all to whom their parents have entrusted them. But if a child is convinced in conscience that it would be morally wrong to obey a particular order, he must not do so.”*I .
Mary requested a good thing for a bad reason. Christ did end up doing what she asked, but it was for a different, and good, reason.
So you say. Where do Scripture and/or Sacred Tradition list, in that passage, that Mary was asking for a ‘bad reason’, that the term ‘woman’ was a rebuke, and that Christ 'did what she asked for a different and ‘good’ reason and what was it?