What's the deal with the Baltimore Catechism?

[lmelahn]

In the catechism I have, the disciplines that are essential to be clear on (like fasting before Holy Communion) have been updated to current standards. I don’t think that the way the Sacraments are administered needs to be changed in the catechism because it is still offered that way in many parishes. Besides, just a few questions are devoted to it, the rest focusing on the actual meaning & effects of the Sacraments which is truly important to understand.

Sure. But see, for instance, how it describes the Mass: there is no longer a pressing need to learn the difference between the pontifical Mass, the solemn Mass, the high Mass, and the low Mass, unless one is frequenting the Extraordinary Form. There is no mention of the Liturgy of the Word, the liturgical postures at Mass, or what a concelebration is.

Again, that is not to denegrate the Baltimore Catechism, I am just observing that it needs to be supplemented.

Do you know where this version can be obtained? Is it online?

It does say that ordination to the diaconate is a Sacrament when it says that they have received some of Holy Orders. It is making a distinction that still is true today in which deacons only receive *some *of Holy Orders, they can’t offer sacrifice or hear confessions like a priest.

Right, but it affirms the same of the subdiaconate, which, we now know, was never a sacrament, so I think the text is being deliberately non-committal. (The question was being debated at the time.)

I am not saying that the Baltomore Catechism is wrong, just that it is a little out of date, because when it was written (in the 19th Century), these questions were not settled.

It might be worth making a new edition that maintains essentially the same format and language, but takes into account the recent doctrinal development and disciplinary changes.

 

[Confiteor_Deo]

Sure. But see, for instance, how it describes the Mass: there is no longer a pressing need to learn the difference between the pontifical Mass, the solemn Mass, the high Mass, and the low Mass, unless one is frequenting the Extraordinary Form. There is no mention of the Liturgy of the Word, the liturgical postures at Mass, or what a concelebration is.

Again, that is not to denegrate the Baltimore Catechism, I am just observing that it needs to be supplemented.

Do you know where this version can be obtained? Is it online?

Right, but it affirms the same of the subdiaconate, which, we now know, was never a sacrament, so I think the text is being deliberately non-committal. (The question was being debated at the time.)

I am not saying that the Baltomore Catechism is wrong, just that it is a little out of date, because when it was written (in the 19th Century), these questions were not settled.

It might be worth making a new edition that maintains essentially the same format and language, but takes into account the recent doctrinal development and disciplinary changes.

I purchased my Baltimore Catechisms from Baronius Press here: Catechisms
I believe they are also sold with the essential disciplinary changes at TAN books as well. I don’t think it is available online.

It does mostly focus on the Traditional Latin Rite since it was written in that time, but I would be against a revision of it to be for the Novus Ordo since I like it being in the traditional form. I suppose I am just against change. However, I have heard of a St. Joseph Revised Baltimore Catechism, perhaps that has the revisions.

 

[Matthew125]

I was taught the Faith from the Baltimore Catechism. It was used in most, if not all, Catholic schools in the United States up to the end of the Second Vatican Council. After that, it was given the heave-ho and, instead of it, we sat around in a circle and discussed lyrics to Simon and Garfunkel songs, and how we felt about this and that.

I LOL’d when I read your comment. I remember doing exactly that with “Sounds of Silence.” I don’t think the old-school nuns were particularly impressed by the changes, especially the “nuns with guitars” era in Mass.

Matt

 

[Mystrx]

This is the one I used with the other adults at my FSSP parish. Its very good I think. The YouCat was useful also.

setonbooks.com/viewone.php?ToView=P-RL09-11

 

[Lormar]

I LOL’d when I read your comment. I remember doing exactly that with “Sounds of Silence.” I don’t think the old-school nuns were particularly impressed by the changes, especially the “nuns with guitars” era in Mass.

Matt

No, they weren’t. Our 8th grade nun borrowed a student’s brother’s Simon & Garfunkel albums, and we all sat there with mimeographed sheets of paper in front of us with the lyrics to I Am A Rock on it. It was fun at first, and novel, but it was so silly and superficial.

"How does that make you feel?

:

 

[Vico]

I purchased my Baltimore Catechisms from Baronius Press here: Catechisms
I believe they are also sold with the essential disciplinary changes at TAN books as well. I don’t think it is available online.

It does mostly focus on the Traditional Latin Rite since it was written in that time, but I would be against a revision of it to be for the Novus Ordo since I like it being in the traditional form. I suppose I am just against change. However, I have heard of a St. Joseph Revised Baltimore Catechism, perhaps that has the revisions.

The 1891 version is here:

baltimore-catechism.com/

 

[Confiteor_Deo]

The 1891 version is here:

baltimore-catechism.com/

Thank you for sharing this. I have used this online version before and didn’t even realize it was a new version since it says “Holy Ghost” still.

 

[branch]

Hello everyone, this is a very embarrassing question because it will make me out to be a very under-a-rock individual when it comes to my own religion…

You shouldn’t feel that way, but get a version or two of the Baltimore Catechism (pick any age group really) and you will no longer feel that way.

It is a solid primer for the most basics of our faith, presented in a very clear concise manner.

You’ll love it.

 

[Vico]

Thank you for sharing this. I have used this online version before and didn’t even realize it was a new version since it says “Holy Ghost” still.

You are welcome. It is missing one chapter (L28, C3). There is also the Catechism of St. Piux X online:

cin.org/users/james/ebooks/master/pius/pindex.htm

And the Catechism of Trent:

cin.org/users/james/ebooks/master/trent/tindex.htm

Jimmy Akin has several available here, including BC #4 (Teachers Edition) which has more commentary:

jimmyakin.com/library/catechismss

 

[sarah_j]

Our 8th grade nun borrowed a student’s brother’s Simon & Garfunkel albums, and we all sat there with mimeographed sheets of paper in front of us with the lyrics to I Am A Rock on it. It was fun at first, and novel, but it was so silly and superficial.

"How does that make you feel?

:

I LOL’d when I read your comment. I remember doing exactly that with “Sounds of Silence.” I don’t think the old-school nuns were particularly impressed by the changes, especially the “nuns with guitars” era in Mass.

Matt

Hahahah! To this day, I can’t stand Simon and Garfunkel.

youtube.com/watch?v=H_a46WJ1viA

 

[otjm]

Faith and knowledge are two different things. Faith without knowledge ends up an unmitigated disaster. Knowledge without faith is something an atheist can easily obtain.

The Baltimore catechism was tossed out in part because of the experiences of at least some of the people, who had been trained by its use, and tossing it was an abject mistake.

What they wanted was something that assisted the learners in growing in faith; but in throwing out the foundational material upon which to build faith, they reaped the whirlwind.

What would have been better would have been to expand the catechism beyond simple rote memorization, but that didn’t occur.

And so we now have two generations of illiterate Catholics, and are well on our way with the third - not because there are no new materials (there are), but because with two generations suffering an intellectual wasteland, they have departed from the Church.

About twice as many Catholics are not attending Mass on a weekly basis, as there are those attending; but they (the larger group) still have some identification as Catholics, tenuous as it is.