What's the difference between Zacharia and Mary?

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I’m having trouble understanding the difference between Mary’s question to the angel on having a child when she has not had relations with a man and Zacharia’s question of having a child because of his and his wife’s advanced years. Both according to the bible said “how?” After Mary said “how?” she agreed to have the child. After zacharia said “how?” he was struck mute. seems like some rationalizing going on here. Thanks for any help.
 
And Zechariah said to the angel, “How shall I know this? For I am an old man, and my wife is advanced in years.” 1
Luke 1:18
And Mary said to the angel, “How shall this be, since I have no husband?”
Luke 1:34

Zechariah asked “Why should I believe this?”

Mary believed but asked “How will this be accomplished?”
 
The different responses to essentially the same question suggest that the interior disposition of each questioner was different: Zachariah’s question was motivated by his disbelief in the angel’s words; Mary’s question was motivated by her faith in the angel’s words.
 
I still don’t get the difference. but thank you to both of you for the help. Stay safe and blessings to you and yours.
 
I still don’t get the difference. but thank you to both of you for the help. Stay safe and blessings to you and yours.
The main difference is, you will notice that, when the Angel was talking to Mary, there was no fear in Mary… If you ever notice that, when an angel was around, they had to say " Do not be afraid!" That is because Angels are perfect. They have awesome powers. When you doubt a message, from an angel, you usually got cursed… That is what happened!
 
Note that Zacharia’s muteness was also symbolic. The coming of Jesus meant the silencing of the
priesthood of the Old Covenant.
 
Mary was a young orphan girl but Zacharia was a priest.

Lk:1:5:
5 ¶ There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judea, a certain priest named Zachary, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name Elizabeth.
 
Hello folks, Thank you again for the responses. I’ve never heard that angels are perfect-thought only God is. I can certainly understand being afraid if an angel appears. I would be. In the bible I use Luke 1:29 reads “But she was greatly troubled…” and 1:30 the angel states “Do not be afraid,Mary,…” I can see why the muteness of Zacharia would be and maybe is symbolic. Thank you all-Blessings.
 
Hello folks, Thank you again for the responses. I’ve never heard that angels are perfect-thought only God is. I can certainly understand being afraid if an angel appears. I would be. In the bible I use Luke 1:29 reads “But she was greatly troubled…” and 1:30 the angel states “Do not be afraid,Mary,…” I can see why the muteness of Zacharia would be and maybe is symbolic. Thank you all-Blessings.
Troubled and afriad are two different things. She was troubled because of her great humility and the honor the angel showed her. Notice to the angle greats her with praise “Hail full of grace”
 
… I’ve never heard that angels are perfect-thought only God is. …
We probably need to define perfect.

I would say that an angel is perfect in that he has no flaws. He has all the powers needed to do his job.

God is perfect in that He lacks nothing.
 
Read the two statements a bit more carefully. Zechariah asks for a sign - ‘How shall I know this’. Frankly, he seems not to believe the message of the angel at all. He is asking for greater and stronger confirmation, above and beyond the fact that an angel of God appears to him to tell him. And we know what God thinks of those who seek after signs!

Mary on the other hand says ‘How shall this happen, since I am a virgin’. She seems not to doubt that it will happen, nor ask for further confirmation. Instead she is more interested in the mechanics of the event - eg is she meant to consummate her marriage to Joseph or not.

She seems to be trying to reconcile what she hears with what she knows of past angel-foreshadowed births - which were all the result of marital sex. Most likely because she had vowed perpetual virginity to God and/or was thinking of the prophecy about a virgin giving birth.
 
I think we’re splitting hairs, and giving credit for the words to be much more precise than we can reasonably expect to have been the case a couple thousand years ago. Words change meaning all the time. I think it’s fun to speculate and hear everyone’s ideas, but I don’t think we can logically and convincingly discover the absolute truth with any amount of reflection.

To me it’s like doing a problem on a calculator and giving the answer out to five digits when there were only two in the problem. We are taking what we read today and trying to exact very narrow shades of meaning to people in a whole different place, with a whole different way of thinking, and a different language. It’s a bit like physicists with their string theory – they are so far out on a limb there’s no way to know, logically or experimentally, whether their models are even close.

That’s why I think we need to trust less of knowledge on the literal sense of the Bible (which 1 Cor 13 tells us in and of itself means nothing btw) and just hear the word and let it run around in our minds and hearts without being analyzed. To me, all the “magic” in the Bible lies in the deeper senses.

Alan
 
Thank you all for your (name removed by moderator)ut-though now I can see why there are 30,000 + Christian sects with all the different opinions that could be used to describe any particular statement or thought. We see what we believe. There is only one truth and very few are fortunate enough to know it. Alan, your last post was extremely insightful and I suppose that is what I need to do- meditate on the difference or sameness of what transpired with Mary and with Zacharia and allow the Holy spirit to guide. At least that is what I got out of the last post. Blessings to all and Thank you.
 
meditate on the difference or sameness of what transpired with Mary and with Zacharia and allow the Holy spirit to guide. At least that is what I got out of the last post.
Wow, if you got that out of it, then I’m glad I posted it! Thank you. :tiphat:

Alan
 
I’m having trouble understanding the difference between Mary’s question to the angel on having a child when she has not had relations with a man and Zacharia’s question of having a child because of his and his wife’s advanced years. Both according to the bible said “how?” After Mary said “how?” she agreed to have the child. After zacharia said “how?” he was struck mute. seems like some rationalizing going on here. Thanks for any help.
The difference is in what they could have been expected to know.
Take Abraham vs. Sarah, for example, Abraham is NOT reprimanded for his mockery (laughter), but Sarah is. At first sight, the difference appears to be sexist. But it isn’t. There was no example prior to Abraham of one advanced in years having a child – and his laughter came upon a surprise statement from God. He is therefore, not directly reprimanded – but led as a child, to a conclusion based on his past experience of God’s power. God does not walk away from Abraham in judgment, but stays to teach.

Notice, the case is not the same with Sarah; Abraham had entered into the covenant with God and the Covenant included renaming his wife from Sarai to Sarah (princess!). Sarah was quite happy to accept the name change, which implied acceptance of the covenant – BUT when God came to inform of the timing of the miraculous birth – THEN Sarai mocked behind the tent door.

It is totally context dependent as to how God responds. He asks Abraham (Not Sarah) why she laughed – and he doesn’t answer. It can only mean his shame. Sarah denies that she laughed, etc. Then GOD LEAVES her.
Now, there are specifics of the case that can partially exonerate her, and I acknowledge them – but decline to go into that much detail for the question at hand.

However, what they knew of events that pre-ceded them determined what they were responsible for understanding or not understanding.

In the case of Mary and Zechariah; Zechariah was a teacher of Israel, he was a high priest (underpriest) offering incense at the Holy of Holies upon the Golden incense altar. Zechariah would have known full well that old women can have children, exactly as Sarah did. He knew full well that he was in the place of intercession (the temple) where such promises were made by God from the time of Moses onward. He is ALSO the representative of the people on behalf of whom he prays (in a way he bears their sin.). With all of these things being part of his responsibility, he then questions God about whether history can repeat itself? The people were sent to Babylonian exile because of such disbelief – and here in the temple, Zechariah repeats their mistake; they can’t even believe in history.

Mary, on the other hand – is receiving the fulfillment (for the first time) of a prophecy that could never have happened before in the SAME WAY as it was about to happen with her now. There are not two virgin births. Even to this day, many Jews will attempt to argue that the saying of Isaiah is “A young woman” will be with child. Such a woman is expected to be a virgin, so that the saying of the old testament is a scandal.
I would sum up as follows:
  • There is no TAUGHT example in history of what a Virgin birth is.
  • The prophecy was given on account of Sin, and Mary has reason to question the place of Sin in fulfillment of the prophecy.
  • Mary spends time casting about in her heart BEFORE replying.
These three points are all contrary to situation with Zechariah.
  • Many women who were barren conceived in their old age upon a promise
  • Sin or complicating factors were not always involved in history
  • Zechariah replies without using his brain or heart first – he is rash.
So, the angel’s judgment of Zechariah rises to the level of “dis-belief”; but no such judgment is laid upon Mary.

Anybody else got a problem with that?
Mary was a good scripture student and Zechariah was a bad scripture student.
Case dismissed. :cool:
 
Zacharias doubted. Mary questioned. We may question, but doubt not! NEVER DOUBT! Lucifer first engendered doubt merely by quoting God’s command as a question, all this before the first lie on earth to the woman. “Yes, has God said you shall not eat of every tree of the garden?” Zacharias doubted. “How shall I know this as I am an old man and my wife is advanced in years?” Archangel Gabriel struck him dumb because “you believe not my words.” That’s explicit. No such reprimand for the Virgin Mary.

More explicitly, the Virgin Mary said, “How can this be as I know not man?” The Blessed Virgin Mary DID know her Scripture, as Theou says; and the Virgin Mary DID know that a prophesy had been given that an alma, a young woman–presumed to be virginal or she would by law have otherwise been stoned to death–would be with child. This was the miracle God forced on Hezekiah who initially doubted God could turn back the outnumbering army that surrounded him. So God said, ask for any miracle and I will give it to prove I can whip this army. Hezekiah fearfully demurred, saying he didn’t want to test God. So God Himself chose a miracle. God chose this very miracle, that a virgin should conceive and bear a Child. This announcement to the Virgin Mary might be the miracle God chose, so she tests the angel. You think this wasn’t news in Jewish circles?

We know Mary knew Scripture because every line of Mary’s beautiful hymn of praise, called the MAGNIFICAT for the opening word, is extracted from Scripture. “My soul magnifies the Lord and my spirit rejoices in God my Savior because He that is mighty has done great things to me and holy is His name…” And as Lily says there is the strong assurance that not only was Mary a virgin but that she was an AVOWED virgin in recognition of this Scripture about the virgin birth. The Scripture scholar Virgin knew God promised the throne to David’s line forever; and Herod wasn’t; so Messiah’s time is here. Her avowed virginity ties in with the Scripture of the woman mourning the loss of her virginity as paying her father’s vow to sacrifice the first living thing he sees on coming home from battle victorious. The Virgin Mary pre-paid the high price of victory.

Mary wasn’t stupid. She knew where babies came from. And she says, “How can this be as I know not man?” The angel didn’t say, oh, you’ll get married and “know man” and have a baby. Testing the spirit, she was told that the Child would be from God. Bingo! That’s the Hezekiah-prompted miracle foretold of old. No sin against testing the spirit. A strong knowledge of history, the history of hope, God’s 100% reliability, is present, not doubt.

Based on her steadfast hope, for the love of God which is charity, Mary steps out, acts in faith. The Virgin Mary assents. “Behold the handmaid of the Lord, be it done unto me according to thy word.” And as Jewish author Savina Teubal stated in her discussion on the laws of servitude in Sarah the Priestess, the children of a handmaid have full adoption rights, full sonship. The handmaid mother and her adopted child can never be cast out of the household as Hagar and her son Ishmael were upon her being demoted form handmaid to servant.

May the Blessed Mother be my advocate and that of my loved ones before God’s throne. She really knows her law and the prophets and the Genesis 3:15 mandate for Woman & Seed to crush Lucifer’s skull, he and his minions. May she act on our behalf now and forever. AMEN
 
It’s amazing how stuff comes up here, again and again, which are old old knowledge in the Church. Zechariah’s doubt versus Mary’s trust is one of the old standards in old spiritual books. And yet, our generation has never heard of this stuff; it’s all new to us.

SIgh. We’re so deprived, it’s not even funny. Like starving to death in the middle of a kitchen, with a cupboard full of food we never try to open.
 
It’s amazing how stuff comes up here, again and again, which are old old knowledge in the Church. Zechariah’s doubt versus Mary’s trust is one of the old standards in old spiritual books. And yet, our generation has never heard of this stuff; it’s all new to us.

SIgh. We’re so deprived, it’s not even funny. Like starving to death in the middle of a kitchen, with a cupboard full of food we never try to open.
So are you there is an old, old answer? Objective and officially Catholic? If so, please tell us; don’t keep us waiting. 🙂

Or are you just saying it is an old, old issue?
 
Hi, LilyM,

Excellent point! 👍 Even though his wife is now pregnant and will soon be showing her new state of beginning motherhood - this is not ‘enough of a sign’ for Zechariah! So, even though his words are similar to Mary’s - his intent was quite different… and this was recognized for what it was: unbelief.

God bless
Read the two statements a bit more carefully. Zechariah asks for a sign - ‘How shall I know this’. Frankly, he seems not to believe the message of the angel at all. He is asking for greater and stronger confirmation, above and beyond the fact that an angel of God appears to him to tell him. And we know what God thinks of those who seek after signs!

Mary on the other hand says ‘How shall this happen, since I am a virgin’. She seems not to doubt that it will happen, nor ask for further confirmation. Instead she is more interested in the mechanics of the event - eg is she meant to consummate her marriage to Joseph or not.

She seems to be trying to reconcile what she hears with what she knows of past angel-foreshadowed births - which were all the result of marital sex. Most likely because she had vowed perpetual virginity to God and/or was thinking of the prophecy about a virgin giving birth.
 
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