What's the Jack Chick Equivalent for "Traditional Catholics?"

[Our_Refuge]

Read your own words. Supressing other religions denies one the ability to “seek” the Truth.

Read the First Commandment. God tells us not to put other gods before him…acknowledging that there are other gods.

Did Christ establish one religion or many? He established one fold with one shepard. God does not approve of man made religions that deny the Real Presence, the Mass, the Vicar of Christ.
Supressing false teachings does not deny anyone the ability to seek the truth.
There are NO other gods. Only false ones created by satan. You have really gone overboard on that one.

 

[japhy]

Obviously, there are other “gods” of some sort, or God wouldn’t have needed the First Commandment, would he? Scripture is full of seemingly contradictory statements.

You can call something a “god”, but that don’t make it a god. Catholics don’t worship the “one true God” because there are other true (but not efficacious unto salvation) gods, but because, truly, there is ONLY one God.

“For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.” (1 Timothy 2:5)

“Let them know that thou art the Lord, the only God, glorious over the whole world” (Daniel 3:45)

“How can you believe, who receive glory from one another and do not seek the glory that comes from the only God?” (John 5:44)

“To the King of ages, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory for ever and ever. Amen.” (1 Timothy 1:17)

“Now to him who is able to keep you from falling and to present you without blemish before the presence of his glory with rejoicing, to the only God, our Savior through Jesus Christ our Lord, be glory, majesty, dominion, and authority, before all time and now and for ever. Amen.” (Jude 24-25)

I can assure you that the Catholic Church teaches there is only one God, and He is the Lord.

 

[ethelzguy]

You can call something a “god”, but that don’t make it a god. Catholics don’t worship the “one true God” because there are other true (but not efficacious unto salvation) gods, but because, truly, there is ONLY one God.

Maybe we need to start another thread.

Why would the One True God tell us in the First Commandment, not to place other gods before him, if there weren’t any?

Money, power, sex, Buddha, Allah, golden cattle, assorted Kings in the OT, Sun god, etc…there are, and have been many “gods” that people have worshipped.

In the First Commandment, God warns us…“choosy mothers choose Jif”…

 

[japhy]

From the Catholic Encyclopedia:
The root-meaning of the name (from Gothic root gheu; Sanskrit hub or emu, “to invoke or to sacrifice to”) is either “the one invoked” or “the one sacrificed to.” From different Indo-Germanic roots (div, “to shine” or “give light”; thes in thessasthai “to implore”) come the Indo-Iranian deva, Sanskrit dyaus (gen. divas), Latin deus, Greek theos, Irish and Gaelic dia, all of which are generic names; also Greek Zeus (gen. Dios, Latin Jupiter (jovpater), Old Teutonic Tiu or Tiw (surviving in Tuesday), Latin Janus, Diana, and other proper names of pagan deities. The common name most widely used in Semitic occurs as 'el in Hebrew, 'ilu in Babylonian, 'ilah in Arabic, etc.; and though scholars are not agreed on the point, the root-meaning most probably is “the strong or mighty one.”
So there are as many “gods” as people invoke and offer sacrifices to, but there is only one who is truly God. Israel knew Him (and knows Him still, although imperfectly). The Church knows Him.

 

[ethelzguy]

Did Christ establish one religion or many? He established one fold with one shepard. God does not approve of man made religions that deny the Real Presence, the Mass, the Vicar of Christ.
Supressing false teachings does not deny anyone the ability to seek the truth.
There are NO other gods. Only false ones created by satan. You have really gone overboard on that one.

Um, who created Satan?

We’re not talking about what God “approves”. We’re talking about suppression of religion to bring people to Catholicism.

You can not force belief or faith. You can force adherence through suppression, but that is not faith.

There ARE “other gods”. History and Scripture are rife with examples of people worshipping other gods, real or imagined.

God would not have advised against such in the First Commandment if there weren’t. It’s about free will.

We have free will to seek the Truth and to choose whether or not to follow the Truth. Suppression does not bring faith in the Truth.

 

[ethelzguy]

From the Catholic Encyclopedia:
The root-meaning of the name (from Gothic root gheu; Sanskrit hub or emu, “to invoke or to sacrifice to”) is either “the one invoked” or “the one sacrificed to.” From different Indo-Germanic roots (div, “to shine” or “give light”; thes in thessasthai “to implore”) come the Indo-Iranian deva, Sanskrit dyaus (gen. divas), Latin deus, Greek theos, Irish and Gaelic dia, all of which are generic names; also Greek Zeus (gen. Dios, Latin Jupiter (jovpater), Old Teutonic Tiu or Tiw (surviving in Tuesday), Latin Janus, Diana, and other proper names of pagan deities. The common name most widely used in Semitic occurs as 'el in Hebrew, 'ilu in Babylonian, 'ilah in Arabic, etc.; and though scholars are not agreed on the point, the root-meaning most probably is “the strong or mighty one.”
So there are as many “gods” as people invoke and offer sacrifices to, but there is only one who is truly God. Israel knew Him (and knows Him still, although imperfectly). The Church knows Him.

And, I don’t disagree with you. I personally believe in the One True God. I personally believe in the One True Church. But there are others who do not.

That is their choice. That is their exercise of free will, as given to them by the One True God.

God WANTS us to love and follow him. He doesn’t MAKE us love and follow him.

 

[japhy]

That is their choice. That is their exercise of free will, as given to them by the One True God. God WANTS us to love and follow him. He doesn’t MAKE us love and follow him.

I don’t disagree with any of that.

I personally believe in the One True God. I personally believe in the One True Church. But there are others who do not.

Ah, and so those others who do not believe in the One True God: just what, exactly, do they believe in? A worthless idol, like a totem or a rock or a statue? A host of immortal beings (like the Roman, Greek, and Norse pantheons)? Perhaps an evil spirit. They may make those things gods by their own estimation, but that does not make the things themselves actual gods.

 

[eelpis]

You have free will to kill your neighbor but you do not have the “right” to do so. You have free will to believe in a false religion but you do not have the divine right to do so.

Vatican II does not deny that the Church has the divine right to be the official religion of the state. Where there has been development is HOW the Church implements this divine right.

 

[eelpis]

And, I don’t disagree with you. I personally believe in the One True God. I personally believe in the One True Church. But there are others who do not.

That is their choice. That is their exercise of free will, as given to them by the One True God.

God WANTS us to love and follow him. He doesn’t MAKE us love and follow him.

Freedom of religion is not absolute and the Church has never seen it that way. Neither has Vatican II. If you mean to say that what you state is the opinion of the Church you are simply wrong.

 

[ethelzguy]

Freedom of religion is not absolute and the Church has never seen it that way. Neither has Vatican II. If you mean to say that what you state is the opinion of the Church you are simply wrong.

Show me where the Church teaches that every person MUST be a faithful, practical Catholic.

This is nonsense. God created Man with Free Will.

To state that all other religions should be suppressed is denial of that Free Will.

 

[Sepharad]

Error has no rights. Only the Catholic church has the divine right to exist. Suppressing the teaching of false religions is not forcing. the Catholic faith on someone

Thank you for reminding me why I am eternally grateful to be a Jew in the United States of America (and not, God forbid, medieval Europe), because here, I DO have freedom of conscience and freedom of religion.

Thank God that old Catholic "Deus vult"mentality will never fly in this country! Why do you think the people who settled here came here in the first place, Catholics in Maryland included??

In the USA we do not legally favor one form of religion over another. If you don’t believe in that, maybe its time for you to move elsewhere.

 

[Fitswimmer]

Thank you for reminding me why I am eternally grateful to be a Jew in the United States of America (and not, God forbid, medieval Europe), because here, I DO have freedom of conscience and freedom of religion.

Thank God that old Catholic "Deus vult"mentality will never fly in this country! Why do you think the people who settled here came here in the first place, Catholics in Maryland included??

In the USA we do not legally favor one form of religion over another. If you don’t believe in that, maybe its time for you to move elsewhere.

Amen!!!

The best way for me as an American Catholic to make sure that I have the right to worship as I choose is to fully support others rights to do the same-or to not worship at all.

 

[Fitswimmer]

I’d say it would have to be this site:

catholiccounterpoint.com

(Heaven help me, due to my long-term pro-life involvement, I actually once knew the guy who runs, or ran this site!)

I hope he doesn’t run out of tin foil for his little hats.

I love the Latin Mass, don’t get me wrong, but this kind of thing makes me just shudder.

 

[Freshman88]

Amen!!!

The best way for me as an American Catholic to make sure that I have the right to worship as I choose is to fully support others rights to do the same-or to not worship at all.

Yet the state could have laws which put an end to the free reign of these false religions, and assist these lost souls in finding the one true faith. Think of how many souls could be saved if one did not have the temptation to join any other faith other than the Catholic faith. Certainly free will would have to be respected in as far as one cannot be forced to believe, but the state can certainly help. Our focus should always be the salvation of souls and worship of God, nothing else.

 

[pnewton]

Error has no rights. Only the Catholic church has the divine right to exist. Suppressing the teaching of false religions is not forcing. the Catholic faith on someone

Didn’t you ask on on thread why some viewed Traditionalists like the Taliban. While I hardly think you are representative of any but the most extreme Traditionalists, I think this post answers the “why” at least when it comes to this extremism

 

[japhy]

Show me where the Church teaches that every person MUST be a faithful, practical Catholic.

“On their part, all men are bound to seek the truth, especially in what concerns God and His Church, and to embrace the truth they come to know, and to hold fast to it.”

“Religious freedom, in turn, which men demand as necessary to fulfill their duty to worship God, has to do with immunity from coercion in civil society. Therefore it leaves untouched traditional Catholic doctrine on the moral duty of men and societies toward the true religion and toward the one Church of Christ.”

“[A]ll men should be at once impelled by nature and also bound by a moral obligation to seek the truth, especially religious truth. They are also bound to adhere to the truth, once it is known, and to order their whole lives in accord with the demands of truth. However, men cannot discharge these obligations in a manner in keeping with their own nature unless they enjoy immunity from external coercion as well as psychological freedom.”

“For the Church is, by the will of Christ, the teacher of the truth.”

 

[Dauphin]

Didn’t you ask on on thread why some viewed Traditionalists like the Taliban. While I hardly think you are representative of any but the most extreme Traditionalists, I think this post answers the “why” at least when it comes to this extremism

I hope you understand that you’re comparing the pre-Vatican II Magisterium to the Taliban. If it makes me extreme to hold to this Magisterium, then I’m extreme. The label doesn’t matter to me in the slightest.

 

[Dauphin]

And that’s your proposal…FORCE everyone to be Catholic?

No.

The proposal of the Magisterium is to suppress the public practice of these false religions so that things harmful to the soul may be removed from public view. To argue otherwise is a liberal error which the Church has condemned.

 

[Sepharad]

Yet the state could have laws which put an end to the free reign of these false religions, and assist these lost souls in finding the one true faith. Think of how many souls could be saved if one did not have the temptation to join any other faith other than the Catholic faith. Certainly free will would have to be respected in as far as one cannot be forced to believe, but the state can certainly help. Our focus should always be the salvation of souls and worship of God, nothing else.

Speaking personally as a religious Jew, I would rather be killed than belong to another religion that I felt was not true…I’d have to choose death just as many of my ancestors in Spain had to do.

If there are Catholics who think as you do, then I suppose Catholics have no right to complain about fundamentalist Muslims who also want to impose their religion onto others.

In some Muslim countries, Christians and Jews are treated in humiliating ways, such as by having to pay the jizya tax as dhimmis. They too, feel that their religion must be raised up above other faiths, so that people will be Muslims rather than anything else.

 

[JMMK]

“It [this document] leaves untouched the tradition Catholic doctrine about the moral duty of men and societies towards the true religion and the one Church of Christ” - Dignitatis Humane.

That’s seems to be pretty straight forward.