Whats the moral implication of Video Games?

[Saiphus]

There is probably something like this on here buried somewhere, but I thought I’d muse on the subject myself.

One premise I would like to maintain throughout all discussions, particularly this one is this: A Catholic should always and everywhere strive to practice virtue. In this case, certain video games are an example. i.e. Its good self-denial, and a great chance to practice a virtue not often practiced, to pass up that really awesome loot or treasure because it requires you to choose something that is evil in real life.

This brings me to the next and main question.

For us as Catholics, what is the moral implication of the actions of a player controlled character in a video game?

To start, I’d like to offer that it is a sin to willfully choose an evil in your mind even if you do not act on it. i.e. To willfully imagine how you would kill your least favorite teacher falls under the sin of murder, though it is arguably less serious than committing the crime.

So in a video game, when you willfully have your imaginary character choose what is evil, is that not akin to willfully choosing the sin in your own mind?

And what of the implications of fictional worship of other deities in fantasy games? What about the use of magic in a fantasy world where is it neutral, but for us it is always evil? What about a video game that forces you to choose between two evils to proceed, is it fair to use the “lesser of two evils” or “principle of double-effect” (of which I know very little) often used when forced to decide on an evil act when the “evils” of a video game are simply avoided by not playing (thus not a forced decision)?

Let the discussion begin and always,
In Christ,
Saiphus.

 

[Redratfish]

There is probably something like this on here buried somewhere, but I thought I’d muse on the subject myself.

One premise I would like to maintain throughout all discussions, particularly this one is this: A Catholic should always and everywhere strive to practice virtue. In this case, certain video games are an example. i.e. Its good self-denial, and a great chance to practice a virtue not often practiced, to pass up that really awesome loot or treasure because it requires you to choose something that is evil in real life.

This brings me to the next and main question.

For us as Catholics, what is the moral implication of the actions of a player controlled character in a video game?
… its a game? You are not controlling a real person.

To start, I’d like to offer that it is a sin to willfully choose an evil in your mind even if you do not act on it. i.e. To willfully imagine how you would kill your least favorite teacher falls under the sin of murder, though it is arguably less serious than committing the crime.
Wait, so If I’ve thought up of ways I wish I could have stopped Hitler, (or killed him in a game) I’ve done the same thing as murdering a child?

So in a video game, when you willfully have your imaginary character choose what is evil, is that not akin to willfully choosing the sin in your own mind?
I don’t play games going on the “dark side”. But you can see my opinions above.

And what of the implications of fictional worship of other deities in fantasy games? What about the use of magic in a fantasy world where is it neutral, but for us it is always evil? What about a video game that forces you to choose between two evils to proceed, is it fair to use the “lesser of two evils” or “principle of double-effect” (of which I know very little) often used when forced to decide on an evil act when the “evils” of a video game are simply avoided by not playing (thus not a forced decision)?
Its a game, Its a game, and in life you must choose the lesser of two evils at times. Choosing the lesser is not bad, if it is required that you choose one.

Let the discussion begin and always,
In Christ,
Saiphus.

 

[Belle777]

I think as long as you understand that it’s fiction it’s not a problem in terms of belief.
Maybe if you’re utterly addicted, but that’s more of a bad habit problem.

 

[JackVk]

As long as it doesn’t interfere with my religious life, I’m usually okay with it. I’m not much of a gamer, but when I find a really good game I can get addicted to it. Like Belle said, that’s a separate problem.

Saiphus, your question really reminds me of Fallout 3. It’s based on complete free will; you can choose to be good or evil (I am good). Maybe you’ve played it?

 

[Edmundus1581]

I can’t run up to someone in real life, and tackle them to the ground - but I can in a football game!

I can’t, in real life, deliberately deceive some one, but I can in most sports (and be applauded for it if I succeed).

I can’t shoot someone in real life, but I can in a video game.

I can’t, in real life, throw a small, hard ball at someone’s head from 22 yards, but I can in cricket!!!

So, I see video games as like sport - there is some licence for doing things we wouldn’t do in real life.

Nevertheless, I am sure that there are limits, and we must exercise our consciences.

For instance, my son, a 19 year old, wanted Grand Theft Auto for Christmas. I found it in the game store and read the classification notes: profanity, prostitution,… And I decided that I didn’t want this game in my house. He was incensed - “It’s just a game”, but I stood by that decision.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

And what of the implications of fictional worship of other deities in fantasy games? What about the use of magic in a fantasy world where is it neutral, but for us it is always evil? What about a video game that forces you to choose between two evils to proceed, is it fair to use the “lesser of two evils” or “principle of double-effect” (of which I know very little) often used when forced to decide on an evil act when the “evils” of a video game are simply avoided by not playing (thus not a forced decision)?

Okay, lemme see if I can break this down.

Worship of other deities - That’s easy. For one, its not real. Second, usually a game that has its own deity or pantheon of deities presents a universe that’s entirely different from our own and obviously goes by an equally different theology.

Magic - Ah, my favorite subject. The reason why magic is evil in our reality is that it opens oneself to demonic attack. Fictional magic is a completely different sort altogether in that it really is a neutral force in that it is a natural aspect of the game world. Your character doesn’t get possessed by demons for practicing magic (as far as the RPGs I’ve played are concerned). Finally, there’s a fine difference between the “magic” of pagans in our world (e.g. dancing in circles, burning sages, smoking weed and all other nonsense) and the magic of fantasy (conjuring plasma bolts, shooting ice blasts, changing people into vermin if they annoy you… sighs if only…).

Choosing between evils - I agree with Redratfish. Even in real life, such a grim scenario is possible (such as in times of war and states of sudden calamity). You might as well do yourself a service and have such games let you get used to the idea.

 

[Saiphus]

First, I’d like to warn against making any assumptions as regards my opinion, because I have not given it. I have merely posited some ideas, and am going to play devil’s advocate a little. As such, any mocking or accusation of scruples is out of place (not that anyone has done this yet).

To start, I’d like to offer that it is a sin to willfully choose an evil in your mind even if you do not act on it. i.e. To willfully imagine how you would kill your least favorite teacher falls under the sin of murder, though it is arguably less serious than committing the crime.

Just to point it out, no one really addressed this point accurately and it was dismissed with:
“Wait, so If I’ve thought up of ways I wish I could have stopped Hitler, (or killed him in a game) I’ve done the same thing as murdering a child?”

To which my answer is, it depends. Is your imagination one of defense, or a cold-hearted murder. If you imagined defending yourself, you imagined a lawful behavior and not a sin, thus its not a sin to dwell on a non-sin. But if you did dwell on, and choose to commit sin in your mind, it is thus a sin. Christ pointed out that any who simply hold anger in their heart against a brother have committed murder, the same for simple lust being adultery.

So again, I’d like to see what people think of that idea in the context of games. Though you did not actually kill random innocent people, on some level you willed murder in your mind, albeit against bytes and bytes of data with a name and image on it. (but then again what is it exactly that you hold in your mind when imagining others?) Do not be so quick to compartmentalize your mind, body, and soul. Material presence is not a requirement for sinfulness, as the greatest sin, pride, is a disposition.

As for the lesser of two evils: That is a choice to be made when there is no other choice. Otherwise, the Christian ideal is to always and everywhere avoid evil. In the case of a game, you don’t “have” to do anything, thus making it hard to justify the choice of an evil, again albeit an imagined evil.

 

[Saiphus]

bump
Just want someone to see this and possibly make a reply to my second set of points.

 

[DexUK]

Magic: is it wrong to read about and imagine magical powers, such as in Lord of the Rings or Harry Potter? No. Because it doesn’t exist. It’s an exercise in creativity and imagination. We know they don’t and can’t exist.

Fantasy violence: is it wrong to enjoy film or game about Pearl Harbor? Is it wrong to imagine oneself being a hero fighter pilot striving to save one’s countrymen? No. It’s an exercise in role playing. You’re not actually doing it, and you don’t stand much of a chance of doing it in real life, unless you join the military, in which case it’s under controlled circumstances anyway (and one assumes - and hopes - that the just war doctrine applies).

Profanity: is it wrong to enjoy fantasy games where profanity is used? Depends really on how you perceive the profanity. It could be a near occasion of sin, based on your reactions, or it could simply be passing words as would appear in a script, meaning nothing to you. It depends on the effect such things have on you and whether you’re likely to feel compelled to repeat such profanities in real life. Personally, I’d avoid it, but profanity is, sadly, all around us these days: we tend to need to develop thick skins to be able to resist the temptation to emulate others’ behavior. If your resistance is low, then don’t play that sort of video game.

It really comes down to what you’re comfortable with.

I don’t believe you actually will murder in any context regarding a computer game. It isn’t real. You know it isn’t real. There are no souls involved. To murder requires killing someone with an immortal soul. There is simply no possible way in which a figment of your imagination (or someone else’s imagination expressed in a computer game) can possible possess any form of soul. Therefore, no murder. Not even the intent. It is no more murder than the taking of an opponent’s piece in a chess game.

 

[Saiphus]

Magic: is it wrong to read about and imagine magical powers, such as in Lord of the Rings or Harry Potter? No. Because it doesn’t exist…

Actually, the Church is quite clear on the need to avoid all things occult (i.e. Ouija boards) precisely because magic (or known better as preternatural/demonic phemona) actually do occur. Witchcraft is a serious and real possibility in our world. The key difference here being that in a game, it is not rooted in demons.

Actually, I once read an essay by Cardinal Ratzinger (now Pope Benedict XVI) on the dangers of Harry Potter because it could possibly lead children to believe magic is neutral, thus opening them up to experimenting with what can only be evil in reality. Not an explicit condemnation but a thought-filled concern and warning. I will try to find the essay and link it if you want, but the internet failed me last I checked. (I read it in paper form, my grandmother had a copy, I’ll ask her.)

You’re point about profanity seems pretty spot on, but I would venture to say that at some point of excess in profanity, no resilience to it is enough to justify willfully putting yourself around it. That point of excess is obviously not clear.

There are no souls involved… Therefore, no murder. Not even the intent. It is no more murder than the taking of an opponent’s piece in a chess game.

Just a thought, but wouldn’t taking pleasure in any killing, be it imagined or real be a terrible thing?

But on to the point, I think the idea that what you’re killing is fully known not to possess a soul is a great point, especially with the chess analogy. The only difference is that, in chess, there is no inherently violent component; a game depicts murder in varying levels of detail and violence, thus bringing it closer to an actual experience of murder. Before anyone says that its fictional (again), I would like to make the analogy that various types of porn are fictional, but willful exposure to that is definitely sinful. Violence is like the cousin of lust, they operate in pretty similar ways, although violence does not have the same obvious physical effects when simply imagined.

Although the game is fictional and the murder is not physical, we are still a unity of body, mind and soul (often called psychosomatic unity) and dualism or compartmentalization does not work within the various Catholic philosophies. Your imagination is just as dangerous, if not more dangerous, than the physical world because you can imagine up and willfully choose many abominable evils there, and God judges those evils just as he judges the physical ones.

Any thoughts?

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

Actually, the Church is quite clear on the need to avoid all things occult (i.e. Ouija boards) precisely because magic (or known better as preternatural/demonic phemona) actually do occur. Witchcraft is a serious and real possibility in our world. The key difference here being that in a game, it is not rooted in demons.

I believe emphasizing on that key difference is precisely to avoid the scenario you present in the following quote:

Actually, I once read an essay by Cardinal Ratzinger (now Pope Benedict XVI) on the dangers of Harry Potter because it could possibly lead children to believe magic is neutral, thus opening them up to experimenting with what can only be evil in reality. Not an explicit condemnation but a thought-filled concern and warning. I will try to find the essay and link it if you want, but the internet failed me last I checked. (I read it in paper form, my grandmother had a copy, I’ll ask her.)

It doesn’t take much to see that difference you know. I’ve mentioned before that just the mere aesthetics of many “witch” religions of the real world (Wicca, Neo-paganism, Shamanisn, Satanism etc) differ sharply in their ritualism with the blasting, transfiguring, cursing, and wand/hand-waving of fantasy fiction magic.