What's the ONE Catholic Doctrine that you disagree with most?

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Although it’s not dogma, the title to our lady as “co-redemptrix” really grinds my gears. It is the historical truth that the CC was built on that Christ is our redeemer. More importantly, the council of Trent infallibly declared:

“Christ alone is our redeemer. Should anyone teach or maintain differently let him be anathema.”

It’s just another one of those teachings that give fundamentalists a handle on attacking us.
That only means She co-operated in HIS Redemption of the Human Race and we should be thankful She DID!!! She said Yes to God and became the one who brought Our Redeemer to us. For that I am VERY thankful. The Church does NOT teach that Mary Redeemed us. We co-operate with Christ when we help someone come to Him, but certainly not in the same way Mary Did. Mary has many beautiful titles and that is our way of showing our love and veneration for Her. We can choose the ones we want. I love.“Refuge of Sinners”, myself.
As far as those who attack us, they will always find something to say no matter what if they are of a mind to do so… I don’t worry about it but I pray for them and their lack of understaning on what we really mean. Over the years I have talked to many, and once they understand what we actually do believe they are rather surprised and tone it down lots. Some even liked it. God Bless, Memaw
 
Don’t like the co-redemptrix title either, all though I do understand what’s meant by it and it doesn’t detract from Christ.

My biggest issue is their annulment process. I was married and divorced in a court house a long time ago as a young man. The Church made me get a annulment during RCIA for this, which took forever and they charged me money for it. 1.) This is not how you should be treating potential converts to the faith. 2.) If you are going to recognize court house marriages then you must also now recognize homosexual weddings as they are now a reality. And you rightly say that’s not a valid marriage, but wait a minute, happened in a court house just like mine did and you put me through the ringer on this.:mad:

If the Church has the authority it claims to have then she can expedite this process and be more welcoming to potential converts. The goal should be Christian unity, not treating Christ’s church like some secret fraternity.
 
You know, as a Protestant, “Co-redemptrix” doesn’t seem so bad because all it is just saying is that Mary did the will of God by saying “yes”, right?
Yes, just like John the Baptist and the others who played their role in the formation and progression of the Church.

I get all that now, but as a SS practicing Christian I did not, and that title really aggravated me. Seemed blasphemous.
 
Just because someone don’t understand something theologically, doesn’t mean that we have to disagree with the church. We have to EDUCATE ourselves.
Good catechesis.
It’s a thing.

No, I don’t disagree with anything. I can admit that there are some things that I have not learned 100% . Yet

Remember the words of the catechumens at the Easter Vigil.

I believe and profess all that the holy Catholic Church believes, teaches, and proclaims to be revealed by God.***
 
Don’t like the co-redemptrix title either, all though I do understand what’s meant by it and it doesn’t detract from Christ.

My biggest issue is their annulment process. I was married and divorced in a court house a long time ago as a young man. The Church made me get a annulment during RCIA for this, which took forever and they charged me money for it. 1.) This is not how you should be treating potential converts to the faith. 2.) If you are going to recognize court house marriages then you must also now recognize homosexual weddings as they are now a reality. And you rightly say that’s not a valid marriage, but wait a minute, happened in a court house just like mine did and you put me through the ringer on this.:mad:

If the Church has the authority it claims to have then she can expedite this process and be more welcoming to potential converts. The goal should be Christian unity, not treating Christ’s church like some secret fraternity.
My second husband went thru an annulment many years ago when it had to go to ROME.for the Pope to handle. It was NOT that difficult and it only took a year. There are some expenses to getting an annulment but the Church works with one if they cannot afford it. If I remember right his was less than $200 The Church is not “putting” anyone thru the “ringer”, but is helping us thru a difficult situation. The Church has to be sure there was no Sacramental marriage in the first place before granting an annulment. Civil marriages between a man and a woman are normal even tho not Sacramental. Same sex is not normal and will never be recognized by the Church. The Catholic Church will never defy Christ’s teachings. There is nothing “secret” about the teachings of the Catholic Church, ( and NEVER has been) its all out there in Sacred Scripture, Sacred Tradition, the Catechism of the Catholic Church and the many Councils etc. I pray you will come to a better understanding of the Catholic faith you have embraced. God Bless, Memaw
 
Disagree is a strong word, but there are a number that have always caused me difficulty on an intellectual level. Papal infallibility is top of the list, and this is not helped when Pope Francis makes statement that are often not entirely clear (I’ve tried to phrase that as charitably as possible and I think most people will know what I mean.)

As others have said, the amount of negative comments made about other churches being only “ecclesial communities” and “not having valid sacraments” strikes me as a sort of theological elitism and makes me very uncomfortable. I think it is one of the biggest obstacles to any sort of Christian unity and needs to be overcome.

Some of the more questionable and hyperbolic teachings about Mary, including the title of “co-redemptrix” and in particular a lot of the language used by Simon De Montfort, the idea of “total consecration” and the language of being a “slave to Mary” all seems to cross the line of devotion and approach worship and deification.

A general excess of legalism.
Christ knew what HE was doing when HE instituted the Catholic Church and made Peter the first Pope. After 2,000 years, where do you think the Catholic Church would be without the Pope??? Like I said Christ KNEW what HE was doing. I thank God for the Pope. When understood properly the Catholic Church is amazing. Her teachings are HOLY and she loves all and hope for the fullness of Truth for all. St. Louis De Montfort used language of the times. Slave of Mary, does NOT mean what we think it does. It just means we are devoted to her and ask her help, and her PRAYERS during this difficult life. We do NOT worship Mary. I think we are all intelligent enough to understand that!!! Lack of understanding is usually the problem when one doesn’t understand Catholic teaching. God Bless, Memaw
 
I agree with all the teachings/doctrines of the Church, I just can’t live them all.

“co” in Co-redemptorix does not mean “equal to”. It’s a matter of simple language. It’s not a dogmatic title anyway and if it ever becomes so, it shouldn’t be a obstacle once you understand the meaning of “co”.

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I agree with all the teachings/doctrines of the Church, I just can’t live them all.

“co” in Co-redemptorix does not mean “equal to”. It’s a matter of simple language. It’s not a dogmatic title anyway and if it ever becomes so, it shouldn’t be a obstacle once you understand the meaning of “co”.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-46uqf-SgC...y4xls4GTc/s1600/pope+benXVI+quote+capture.JPG
I think the issue with the language used is to many “co” can mean equal to. If two people write a book they are co-authors. Im uneasy with this title though understand its not doctrine.
 
I am not fully on board with masturbation being a mortal sin as opposed to being a venial sin.
 
My second husband went thru an annulment many years ago when it had to go to ROME.for the Pope to handle. It was NOT that difficult and it only took a year. There are some expenses to getting an annulment but the Church works with one if they cannot afford it. If I remember right his was less than $200 The Church is not “putting” anyone thru the “ringer”, but is helping us thru a difficult situation. The Church has to be sure there was no Sacramental marriage in the first place before granting an annulment. Civil marriages between a man and a woman are normal even tho not Sacramental. Same sex is not normal and will never be recognized by the Church. The Catholic Church will never defy Christ’s teachings. There is nothing “secret” about the teachings of the Catholic Church, ( and NEVER has been) its all out there in Sacred Scripture, Sacred Tradition, the Catechism of the Catholic Church and the many Councils etc. I pray you will come to a better understanding of the Catholic faith you have embraced. God Bless, Memaw
I have full understanding, I just don’t like it or agree with how they handle certain things. That’s the topic of the OP.

And I don’t think you understood, entirely, the point I was making. Civil marriages of any variety are VERY CLEARLY not sacramental and should be dismissed immediately and entirely for new converts. But because they are not, those in my circle(anti-Catholic protestants) have their doubts about the Church’s motives, suspecting they are monetarily motivated(btw much more than $200). This makes it even more difficult for converts from protestantism as we have zealot family members/friends already on the attack and the Church seems to inadvertently give them more ammunition.

A example of what I am talking about is my initial conversation with our parish priest. I explained my situation to him and he said 100% chance you get annulled because it’s non sacramental…it’s open and shut. Others had told me the same thing. So in these situations why in the heck are we wasting people’s time and money with this process in these situations? Sacramental marriages are a different story and I understand the long delays for those as thorough investigation is needed and the RCC is a big ship that takes a while to make the turn…

Bottom line, civil marriages by unbaptized are not marriages and anyone can figure that out in about 5 seconds
 
I share a number of these difficulties, but would say that in general, the biggest issue is how the Magesterium is defined. By the doctrine of the Communion of Saints, we are in historical and spiritual continuity with our ancestors in faith and with the Church Suffering and Church Triumphant. That means that “novelty” is impossible.

However, we need to use the tools of modern historiography to understand what earlier generations of Christians actually believed. To Traditional Catholics, that may make me a modernist, but I would say that even in the documents they cite, the historical context matters a great deal in interpreting the content.

I am very resistant to the notion put forward by Traditionalists that we must simply accept the Tridentine version of everything as more “valid,” and rely on all the writings of pre-Vatican II popes to show how far from our true tradition we have fallen.
  1. Clericalism, particularly as expressed in the teaching that only men can be priests. (This is an expression of clericalism because it rests on the idea that the ministerial priesthood is something qualitatively other than the baptismal priesthood–otherwise no baptized person would be an “invalid subject” for ordination.)
The early church had at least two different groupings of clerics:
  • Bishops and Deacons (Philippians 1; Acts 11:30 shows “presbyters” in the care of Paul and Barnabas – suggesting early hierarchy).
  • Apostles, prophets, and teachers (Acts 11:27 and 21:10; 1 Cor 12:28 expresses that hierarchy, followed by various charisms).
In Romans 12:6-8, Paul writes to a church where “gifts differ according to the grace given to us”: prophecy, ministry, teacher, exhortation, generosity, and being “over others” – the latter could mean in a hierachicial or patronal (like Phoebe in Romans 16:1-2) position.

In the pastorals, we see an elevation of the presbyter-bishop. 1 Timothy 5:17 says “Presbyters who preside well deserve double honor, especially those who toil in preaching and teaching.” That suggests that presbyters themselves were becoming segregated into higher and lower statuses by the time 1 Timothy was written.

Titus 1:5-9 is odd, for it talks about “appointing presbyters in every town” and says that they must be blameless, “for a bishop must be blameless, For a bishop as God’s steward must be blameless, not arrogant, not irritable, not a drunkard, not aggressive, not greedy for sordid gain, but hospitable, a lover of goodness, temperate, just, holy, and self-controlled, holding fast to the true message as taught so that he will be able both to exhort with sound doctrine and to refute opponents..” Titus 1:10-14 goes on to criticize “Jewish Christians” who have a “prophet of their own.

To me, it’s obvious that there were apostles and prophets in the Jewish Christians – from Acts and from the reference in Titus 1:12. There were bishops and deacons in Philippi. There were “appointed by God” in Corinth, first apostles, second, prophets, third teachers.

We know that “prophet” was a major clerical title in the first century, from the Didache 10, which says, “suffer the prophets to eucharistize (eukaristein) whenever they want.” Didache 15 tells us that prophets were replaced by bishops and deacons ("Appoint, therefore, for yourselves, bishops and deacons worthy of the Lord, men meek, and not lovers of money, and truthful and proved; for they also render to you the service of prophets and teachers. Therefore do not despise them, for they are your honored ones, together with the prophets and teachers. ")

We know from 1 Clement that when the Corinthians got presbyters, that they deposed them. Looks like they had to give up their apostles and prophets like the Cretans in Titus did. By the time Ignatius of Antioch wrote (~105-115 AD), he wrote to the Smyrnaeans, “Let that be a valid eucharist which is celebrated by the bishop or his appointees.” So all this happened in the first century.

There were other disputes as well. The author of 3 John, who describes himself as “the Presbyter” complains about Diotrephes, who appears to be a bishop that is excommunicating the Presbyter’s friends. Diotrephes appears to be a new type of figure in the Johannine community.

So I look on the modern priesthood as one that developed over time, and not without dispute. Prophets, mentioned in Acts, 1 Corinthians, Titus, and the Didache, were common in Jewish Christianity and Corinth. However, they were replaced with bishops and deacons (in the Didache), or opposed by presbyter-bishops (in Titus).
 
I have full understanding, I just don’t like it or agree with how they handle certain things. That’s the topic of the OP.

And I don’t think you understood, entirely, the point I was making. Civil marriages of any variety are VERY CLEARLY not sacramental and should be dismissed immediately and entirely for new converts. But because they are not, those in my circle(anti-Catholic protestants) have their doubts about the Church’s motives, suspecting they are monetarily motivated(btw much more than $200). This makes it even more difficult for converts from protestantism as we have zealot family members/friends already on the attack and the Church seems to inadvertently give them more ammunition.

A example of what I am talking about is my initial conversation with our parish priest. I explained my situation to him and he said 100% chance you get annulled because it’s non sacramental…it’s open and shut. Others had told me the same thing. So in these situations why in the heck are we wasting people’s time and money with this process in these situations? Sacramental marriages are a different story and I understand the long delays for those as thorough investigation is needed and the RCC is a big ship that takes a while to make the turn…

Bottom line, civil marriages by unbaptized are not marriages and anyone can figure that out in about 5 seconds
In our Archdiocese (perhaps everywhere) part of the re-vamping of the process eliminated all fees. Entirely.
 
You know, as a Protestant, “Co-redemptrix” doesn’t seem so bad because all it is just saying is that Mary did the will of God by saying “yes”, right?
Largely. It’s meant in the sense of co-operation, not as in co-pilot. In the cooperative sense, there are many co-redeemers, but Mary’s cooperation is most prominent.
 
That only means She co-operated in HIS Redemption of the Human Race and we should be thankful She DID!!! She said Yes to God and became the one who brought Our Redeemer to us. For that I am VERY thankful. The Church does NOT teach that Mary Redeemed us. We co-operate with Christ when we help someone come to Him, but certainly not in the same way Mary Did. Mary has many beautiful titles and that is our way of showing our love and veneration for Her. We can choose the ones we want. I love.“Refuge of Sinners”, myself.
As far as those who attack us, they will always find something to say no matter what if they are of a mind to do so… I don’t worry about it but I pray for them and their lack of understaning on what we really mean. Over the years I have talked to many, and once they understand what we actually do believe they are rather surprised and tone it down lots. Some even liked it. God Bless, Memaw
👍
 
te

I thought it was Catholic teaching. 🤷
Nope.
Memaw gave a well-worded response to this.
It means Mary cooperated in our Redemption by bringing Christ to the world with her “yes”.

If one studies the life and apparitions of Our Lady, one quickly realizes that she takes nothing for herself. She always and ONLY point us to her Son, our Redeemer.
 
In our Archdiocese (perhaps everywhere) part of the re-vamping of the process eliminated all fees. Entirely.
That’s a new implementation by Pope Francis. He gets it and he’s trying to improve things.

Thank God for him. 🙂

I came in before that change was made. Anyway, great start and hopefully they extrapolate on it some more as it’s badly needed.
 
And I don’t think you understood, entirely, the point I was making. Civil marriages of any variety are VERY CLEARLY not sacramental
This is not true. Civil marriages on non-Catholics can be sacramental. Any time two baptized individuals marry, they do so sacramentally, even if they exchange vows in a courthouse. Only Catholics are required to observe the “form” of Catholic marriage, in front of a catholic priest or deacon or receive a dispensation to marry elsewhere.

Marriage is by definition between man and woman. That is why the Church does not recognize homosexual “marriages”, not because two men may have attempted marriage civilly as opposed to in a Church.
 
This is not true. Civil marriages on non-Catholics can be sacramental. Any time two baptized individuals marry, they do so sacramentally, even if they exchange vows in a courthouse. Only Catholics are required to observe the “form” of Catholic marriage, in front of a catholic priest or deacon or receive a dispensation to marry elsewhere.

Marriage is by definition between man and woman. That is why the Church does not recognize homosexual “marriages”, not because two men may have attempted marriage civilly as opposed to in a Church.
Correct, according to Church teaching if they are both baptized, I meant to say VALID as in my last sentence of that post.

Clearly invalid as anybody with a pulse can go to a courthouse and have a drive by ceremony and get a certificate.
 
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