What's the origin of the idea of the magisterium?

[Binary]

How did we come to know that the holy spirit guides the church such that the ordinary universal magisterium is infallible? I know that there is evidence to support the idea in scripture like the authority given to Peter, Paul calling the church the foundation of truth, etc, but that just leads me to ask how Paul came to know it.

It seems to me that this infallibility is something that can be logically inferred (i.e. something that must be true), but I don’t know what premises to use to construct the inference.

 

[Binary]

39 views and no responses?

 

[Binary]

Honestly, I thought this would be an easy one. This seems foundational to Catholic theology, and I was a little embarrassed to even have to ask it.

Should I repost it in another subforum?

 

[tonyrey]

Honestly, I thought this would be an easy one. This seems foundational to Catholic theology, and I was a little embarrassed to even have to ask it.

Should I repost it in another subforum?

You can try but sometimes apparently easy questions are the most difficult. You are asking for historical evidence which may not even exist. Nor is it necessary because there is no doubt that the Church of Rome dates back to St Peter who was selected by Jesus as the Rock on which His community would be established. He told the Apostles to go out and teach all nations promising to be with them until the end of the world. It is unthinkable that He would allow them or their successors to teach anything which contradicts the truths of the Gospel. Important decisions were taken by His followers acting as a community and not as individuals. The Bishop of Rome was, and is, the leader but not he is an autocrat! If he were he would not have summoned Councils of the Church to discuss heresies and settle controversies. He is the Vicar of Christ but all Catholics are members of the Body of Christ and when they agree on fundamental issues they cannot be in error. Otherwise the promise of Jesus would not be fulfilled…

 

[Joe_Kelley]

Jesus promised that the the powers of death will not prevail against His Church.

• I will build my church, and the powers of death * shall not prevail against it.

Matthew 16:18 I take that to mean that He will protect it from all error.

So Jesus’ promise of the Advocate promises to provide that continued guidance for His Church.

7* Nevertheless I tell you the truth: it is to your advantage that I go away, for if I do not go away, the Counselor will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you. 8 And when he comes, he will convince the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment: 9* concerning sin, because they do not believe in me; 10* concerning righteousness, because I go to the Father, and you will see me no more; 11* concerning judgment, because the ruler of this world is judged. 12 "I have yet many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. 13 When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come. 14* He will glorify me, for he will take what is mine and declare it to you. 15 All that the Father has is mine; therefore I said that he will take what is mine and declare it to you.

John 16:7-15

 

[neophyte]

1. The church is a divine institution: the Bride and Body of Christ. ( Eph. 1:22-23; Song of Songs; Isaiah 62; Jeremiah 2:1-3; Jeremiah 3:1-5, 3:19-20, 5:7)
2. The church is the foundation and pillar of truth, perfect and holy. (1 Tim. 3:15)
3. The Church is forever visible, not hidden. (John 1:3-5; Matt. 5:14-15; Luke 8:16,11:33)
4. The Church will proclaim the true gospel continuously, forever. (Isaiah 59:21; Matt. 16:18b; Matt. 28:20b; 1 Pet 1:25)
5. The Church is built on the foundation of the Apostles.( Ephesians 2:17-22; Ephesians 3:4-5)
6. Jesus will always be with the Apostles, and they will never teach erroneous doctrine. (John 14:16-17; 15:26; 16:12-13, 17:17-19.)
7. The Apostles speak with the authority of God. (Matthew 10:20, Luke 10:16)
8. The Apostles will remember everything Jesus taught them. (John 14:16-18, 26, Luke 21:33)
9. The Apostles will be one in the doctrine they teach. (John 17:20-23)
10. The Apostles have to power to forgive sin. (John 20:21-23)
11. God will give the Apostles whatever they ask for in Christ’s name, and the fruit they bear will remain. (John 15:16, 16:23; Romans 1:13)
12. St. Peter has a pre-eminent place among the Apostles. (Matthew 16:17-19; Isaiah 22:20-25)
13. The Apostles, and not the believers at large, had the authority to interpret Scripture and teach binding doctrine. (Rom 13:1-2; Heb. 13:17; 1 Tim 1:3; 2 Pet. 1:16–21, 3:2, 3:16; Jude 8, 10-11, Numbers 16)
14. The Magesterium (the teaching authority of Christ’s Church) exercised that authority to make binding decisions on matters of faith. (Acts 15)
15. The teaching authority that Jesus gave to the Apostles extended to the Apostles’ sucessors. (Acts 1:20,26; 2 Tim 2:2; 1 Cor 3:9-11)
16. The early Church believed in the sucession of Magesterial authority. (Clement of Rome, Ignatius of Antioch, Cyprian of Carthage)

Based on the word of Christ, we can know that the Magesterium of the Church is protected by God from ever teaching false doctrine as being infallibly true and binding on all believers.

 

[FloridaJoan]

How did we come to know that the holy spirit guides the church such that the ordinary universal magisterium is infallible? I know that there is evidence to support the idea in scripture like the authority given to Peter, Paul calling the church the foundation of truth, etc, but that just leads me to ask how Paul came to know it.

It seems to me that this infallibility is something that can be logically inferred (i.e. something that must be true), but I don’t know what premises to use to construct the inference.

hello Binary,

Methinks the CCC par. #s 84 to 90 may help with your question. It includes scripture reference also. Don’t you just love Mother Church for helping her sheep to understand the Shepherd’s teachings ! I for one cannot fathom infalliblity without God’s intercession.
pax
Joan

 

[Binary]

Excellent responses. Thanks to everyone who posted. The catechism is usually one of the first places I look for answers, but I didn’t think of that for this question. Weird.

So here’s a bonus question: Why wasn’t limbo considered part of the universal ordinary magisterium? The impression I get from talking to people of older generations is that it was a nearly universally held belief.

 

[FloridaJoan]

Excellent responses. Thanks to everyone who posted. The catechism is usually one of the first places I look for answers, but I didn’t think of that for this question. Weird.

So here’s a bonus question: Why wasn’t limbo considered part of the universal ordinary magisterium? The impression I get from talking to people of older generations is that it was a nearly universally held belief.

hello again Binary,

i already responded to this BUT think i goofed on the transmission ! So, here goes again. !

Like yourself , sometimes it’s hard to see the forest for the trees ( as far as using the obvious resources goes !).

With regards to the limbo question : I cannot say that i’ve given it much " serious " thought or research but , as an " older generation " cradle Catholic( with 12 years Catholic school … a LONG time ago !) I do remember being taught ( by those sweet little Nuns ) that it exists. Today ( as an adult ) I have often wondered if after the crucifixion when Christ descended into Hell , He wasn’t retrieving those souls who were in limbo ( after the original sin and closing of the gates to Heaven ). See CCC par. #s 631 to 637 and tell me what you think.

pax
Joan
Good questions and food for thought Binary.

 

[tonyrey]

So here’s a bonus question: Why wasn’t limbo considered part of the universal ordinary magisterium? The impression I get from talking to people of older generations is that it was a nearly universally held belief.

Being a nearly universally held belief is not sufficient for it to be part of the universal ordinary magisterium. It has to be related to other doctrines.The belief in limbo was a popular reaction to an unbalanced legalistic concept of hell in which even the innocent are damned.